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Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 View Post

I feel like Caine's Alfred has a stronger relationship with Bruce Wayne than Gough's Alfred.  We don't need to see Caine do any butlering.  That's his official job title, but that is not what he is to Bruce.  You dismissively refer to Caine's version as Bruce's lovable uncle, but that is what Alfred is meant to be here: the lovable guy who takes care of Bruce like family, not just the guy who answers the fucking door.  If he was just the stiff, proper guy who answered the door, there would be no reason for Bruce to even keep him around so long.  Their relationship is the heart and soul of what is an otherwise cold, austere franchise.  

There are some criticisms of these films that I can understand, but I'll go to war against anyone for hating on Caine's Alfred.

I'm not hating on him, and I don't mean to sound like I am. He's great. I just think Gough is better, in this particular role. And to me, the touching thing about Alfred is that he acts as a consummate professional all the time, yet its clear that the two love each other. Having Alfred cry a lot is a more obvious choice. It's not BAD, it's just less subtle and, to me, less effective.

And I'm sorry, there's no moment with Caine in the Nolan films that can even approach Gough's reading "One has just sprung to mind..."

Here's the thing.  John Blake was named Robin as a loving nod to fans, and specifically so Nolan could pull a fast one on all those jaded fucks who hate Robin by default.  This whole movie Blake acts as Robin would, just without the name or the costume, and all of the sudden you realize at the end he's kind of snuck one by you.  You've approved of and liked this character already.  Yet at the same time this isn't Dick Greyson, being named Robin was more or less a metaphor and not a literal thing.


That being said I would totally be up for that Nightwing/Batman Beyond soft reboot, with Bruce and his lovely wife Selina acting as the new Alfred/father figure/wise cracking banterer for the new active hero of Gotham.

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Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 View Post

I feel like Caine's Alfred has a stronger relationship with Bruce Wayne than Gough's Alfred.  We don't need to see Caine do any butlering.  That's his official job title, but that is not what he is to Bruce.  You dismissively refer to Caine's version as Bruce's lovable uncle, but that is what Alfred is meant to be here: the lovable guy who takes care of Bruce like family, not just the guy who answers the fucking door.  If he was just the stiff, proper guy who answered the door, there would be no reason for Bruce to even keep him around so long.  Their relationship is the heart and soul of what is an otherwise cold, austere franchise.  

There are some criticisms of these films that I can understand, but I'll go to war against anyone for hating on Caine's Alfred.

Agree with this but will add: Alfred comes to realize that he's been enabling Bruce in an extremely destructive way in all three movies. By revealing his big secret to Bruce he effectively and deliberatly cuts the cord. Their last scene is that of a parent watching his son go off and start a new life.

One thing I'd add: Both DKR and Avengers feature characters who begin at odds with each other then team up to fight for the greater good. I know it is very common in Comics but do not recall seeing it to such an extent in the Marvel and DC films to date.

And Catwoman is the new Han Solo!

Okay, saw this bear earlier today. Here is my abbreviated opinion:

I have huge problems with the movie but I still enjoyed it, somehow. Everything caught me off guard. All of the stuff I thought I would hate, I actually liked. The stuff I thought I would like was thoroughly disappointing. Pretty schizophrenic experience for me.

I thought 2:45 was going to be too long and it wasn't. I thought Catwoman would annoy me but she was the only thing handled flawlessly in the film.  The overall story was convoluted but it totally worked for me. I was never bored or ready to check out on where things were going. At this running time I could not have asked for better pacing.

Bruce's come back was painfully rushed and disappointing. Rocky's come back from the first fight with Clubber Lang was handled with more patience and care. Compound fracture of a vertebrae treated with some rope, a punch and some push-ups? All within 90 days? And he's back better than ever? Look... fuck anyone for excusing this. This sequence was almost insulting. My suspension of disbelief was completely in tact for everything else but here? Nope. I wouldn't even except that in a cartoon.

I thought the Tate as Taken's daughter twist at the end was unnecessary and undermined both Bane's awesomeness and the diabolical plan. A madman revolutionary with an eye on destruction is far more compelling to me than "this was my daddy's plan". Maybe this turn was better dramatically but it didn't work for me at all. I think they could have extended the Bane/Batman showdown, given it a bigger payoff/catharsis and kept all diabolical happenings as the result of Bane's madness rather than forcing a completely unnecessary plot twist in the last minutes of the movie. This seemed like a desperate attempt to have a bigger "Begins" connection and added 10-15 minutes to an already long movie. Besides being unnecessary, as a result Bane goes from unstoppable powerhouse to afterthought goon quickly disposed of by Catwoman. Not a fitting end at all.

Let's see, what else? Michael Cain is awesome. Bane's voice mix made no sense and JGL's accent was off putting in the beginning. Too many parts of the movie seemed to lean on total blind luck rather than cunning or good planning.

The movie is a mess but I'll be damned that I was still interested and entertained the whole way through and I found it more entertaining and easier to watch than Batman Begins.

One last thing... Bruce Wayne talks to himself in the Batman voice? I had to laugh.

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Originally Posted by Timothy Q View Post

One last thing... Bruce Wayne talks to himself in the Batman voice? I had to laugh.

He stays in character until that cowl comes off.  He's the Daniel Day-Lewis of superheroes.

Well now that Nolan's gotten this out of his system, can someone else make Batman movies now?  He's a talented filmmaker who seems intent on using that talent to tell Batman stories that simply do not interest me in the slightest.  A Batman who has enough aerial firepower to take down tanks just isn't an interesting character to me.

AI'm glad Nolan is moving on as well, that way I never have to hear this endless "this isn't my Batman" bitching every few years.

Saw it Friday morning at 11:30, first regular show of the day. I thought it was excellent overall.

Sure, it was overstuffed and all over the place, but that's excactly what I was expecting, so I didn't mind. This is by the director that made The Dark Knight. That movie was balls deep in subplots and diversions. At least now, with this and Inception, he's figured out how to properly end a movie. Dark Knight's final confrontation with Two-Face always bugs the shit out of me and kills my moviebuzz.

My main criticism, on first viewing at least, is that a lot of events in the first 2/3 could have used a little more dramatic weight behind them. It felt like they were just a few editing/script tweaks away from achieving their full potential. Bane, in particular, really needed another scene or two to make a deeper impact. What Bane scenes were there were all great, though. This might be my favorite Tom Hardy performance. It's a pretty crazy through line for him, going from Bronson to Warrior to TDKR, getting huger and more brutal each movie. The dude is going to burst apart at the seems if he keeps going at this rate. Bring on Mad Max!

As for the voice, to me it sounded like they boosted and amped and EQ'd the shit out of it in the mix. With that, it would've been unnecesary to actually re-record the lines. It was an entirely necessary fix, as I caught maybe 1/3 of his words during the MI4 version of the prologue. After I saw that, I thought the performance was really cool, but was resigned to the fact that I'd have to wait for DVD subtitles to know what he was saying.

The vocal performance itself is pretty close to iconic. This is a villain that people are going to remember. Nearly every word out of the guy's mouthgrill is delicious.  Favorite lines: "...with no SURVIVORS!", "Then why are you here?" to the stockbroker, and the entire Dent speach. For that one, I fucking loved how he seemed to keep going on and on even after the news crew runs away. The dude isn't about to let an empty street and lack of audience get in the way of a good speech. Also, seeing him on the Jumbotron was hilarious. Then he just kinda punks the mic to the ground when he's done talking. "Bane out, btiches."

Noteworthy parts of the theater experience:

-The guy behind me. For the "alligator" line, he whisper-yells to his girlfriend "KILLER CROC!". When Robin is revealed, he goes "OHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!". Then, when it's over, he's the only one that starts clapping. It failed to start a trend. I was entheusiastic, sure, but I wasn't going to be the only other one doing it.

-To the guy letting his 5 year old and 3 year old boy run laps around the theater for half the movie: Thanks, bro. Thanks. I'm sure the other theater patrons would have all gladly donated a dollar each so you could hire a goddamn sitter.

-Digital projection of movies shot on film sucks. No way around it. I saw this on probably the biggest and best non-IMAX screen in Providence, with a Sony 4k projector. So, even though it was as good as it gets for digital (I assume), it still looked like crap to my aesthetically sensitive eyes. The contrast levels and blacks were weak, and the color pallete washed out and compressed looking. It wasn't enough to take away from my enjoyment of the actual movie, but still pretty damn far from ideal. I'll hopefully be seeing it in 70mm IMAX next week, which will be good, since I can relax and not anticipate what's going to happen next.

I've watched Begins and TDK again a few times recently, and while both are still fantastic, I give the slight edge to Begins. The more I watch Dark Knight, the more I hate how they handled Two Face. It almost kills the whole third act for me. Aaron Eckhart is great in other movies, but was just plain miscast here. Begins holds together more consistently because Neeson is always a champ. Anyways, I bring that up to say that I think Rises is at least as good as those two. I'll need a year or two to let it settle in, but as it is, I probably prefer it to TDK, just because of how much I love Bane.

AAaron Eckhart was not miscast. I would love to hear the reasoning behind that thought, but not in this thread.
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Originally Posted by dynamotv View Post

Don't know why people are so hung up on how Bruce with no money got back into Gotham.   After all, he was trained and became a member of the League of Shadows and before that learned how to be a criminal.   Also, one has to assume Bruce learned to navigate ice in his training too.    Plus, he's the fucking Batman.   He's the epitome of human achievement both mentally and physically.   I'd be disappointed if he couldn't find a way back on the island.

Was the "The Pit" 50 miles away or was it ACROSS THE OCEAN IN ANOTHER COUNTRY? What the fuck training gets you into the US from Asia if you have no money and the US is under internal assault from a terrorist with a nuclear bomb? Was not Gotham being occupied by a guy who ALSO was a member of League of Shadows, criminal, and was apparently better at both than Wayne?

"It's A Comic Book Movie" or "He's Batman" works against EXTERNAL logic, not the internal logic of the nightmare scenario this movie set up.

Nolan's Batman is legit.

I just think his universe was boring until now.

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Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

Here's the thing.  John Blake was named Robin as a loving nod to fans, and specifically so Nolan could pull a fast one on all those jaded fucks who hate Robin by default.  This whole movie Blake acts as Robin would, just without the name or the costume, and all of the sudden you realize at the end he's kind of snuck one by you.  You've approved of and liked this character already.  Yet at the same time this isn't Dick Greyson, being named Robin was more or less a metaphor and not a literal thing.


That being said I would totally be up for that Nightwing/Batman Beyond soft reboot, with Bruce and his lovely wife Selina acting as the new Alfred/father figure/wise cracking banterer for the new active hero of Gotham.

I was having a hard time putting my finger on why I didn't mind that JGL had to carry a lot of the action while Bruce/Batman was in jail, but I think you nailed it - Nolan sneaking "Robin" in like that without the baggage of the stupid costume is a pretty genius inception.  It worked a lot better than how James Marsden got his own action sequence in Superman Returns - they should have called that movie "The Adventures of Lois Lane's Amazing Boyfriend Richard:  'Cause Superman is Sleepy or Some Shit"

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Originally Posted by Micah Robinson View Post

Was the "The Pit" 50 miles away or was it ACROSS THE OCEAN IN ANOTHER COUNTRY? What the fuck training gets you into the US from Asia if you have no money and the US is under internal assault from a terrorist with a nuclear bomb? Was not Gotham being occupied by a guy who ALSO was a member of League of Shadows, criminal, and was apparently better at both than Wayne?

C'mon Micah, like Bruce Superninja couldn't steal an oxygen supply and stow away in the luggage compartment of a plane? Hell, how about what makes you think Bruce Superninja Maverick couldn't steal and pilot a fast private jet?

He's a superninja flying ace Micah. AND HE'S IMMORTAL!!!

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Originally Posted by Micah Robinson View Post

Was the "The Pit" 50 miles away or was it ACROSS THE OCEAN IN ANOTHER COUNTRY? What the fuck training gets you into the US from Asia if you have no money and the US is under internal assault from a terrorist with a nuclear bomb? Was not Gotham being occupied by a guy who ALSO was a member of League of Shadows, criminal, and was apparently better at both than Wayne?

"It's A Comic Book Movie" or "He's Batman" works against EXTERNAL logic, not the internal logic of the nightmare scenario this movie set up.

Since this movie was all about some Begins callbacks, this would've been the perfect time for Alfred to show up with the private jet to fly Bruce home.

Though, the League would probably shoot down the plane as it entered Gotham's airspace, so never mind.

Anyone else feel that the consensus and predictions leading up to the film was that Bruce Wayne would die and The Batman would live on? With all the talk of The Batman as a symbol, that was always a strong possibility with me. In the end Nolan flipped it around and killed Batman and let Bruce prosper and I while I will wait to call this a brilliant move, I think I like it.

I did think for a minute that Nolan was going to get all Inception-y and show us Alfred just beginning to smile and then cut to black, so we're not sure if he really saw Bruce or not.

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Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 View Post

Since this movie was all about some Begins callbacks, this would've been the perfect time for Alfred to show up with the private jet to fly Bruce home.

Though, the League would probably shoot down the plane as it entered Gotham's airspace, so never mind.

Perfect opportunity for a megaflock of bats to attack the missiles en masse as the score soared behind them. Yet another "rousing moment" just like when they showed up in The Pit, which was already on top of of the obvious visual callback of his father descending to....ah, fuck this movie.

That pit sure didn't seem like such a hell hole while Bruce was in it.  They all happily cheer him on as he's trying to climb out, they help him get better, makes you wonder just what was supposed to be so bad about being there, aside from it being a jail.

And was I the only one who, when Talia said, "You murdered my father," thought, "No, he just didn't save him"?

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Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

I did think for a minute that Nolan was going to get all Inception-y and show us Alfred just beginning to smile and then cut to black, so we're not sure if he really saw Bruce or not.


I was expecting that too and actually... I would have preferred it. Or just have Alfred look up and rather then smile, something catches his eye and BOOM "THE DARK KNIGHT RISES" comes up on the screen.

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Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 View Post

After a good night's sleep, some things fall apart.

1) Bruce's utter lack of paranoia.  Maybe this was an intentional thing to show Bruce's death wish mentality, but the first two movies took great pains to show him doing recon work on everyone in his trusted circle.  Bruce/Batman vets everyone like it's a fucking presidential election.  In this film, a fucking cop who he has never fucking met before strolls into his house, tells him that he knows his secret identity, and strolls right out.  And Bruce LETS HIM GO.  No "Holy shit, lemme do some checking on this guy!".  No wiretap on his phone.  No fear that he's a dirty cop.  He just trusts him without the film giving Bruce any fucking reason to do so.  We have seen him at the kids' orphanage, but Bruce has not.  He doesn't know him from a hole in the wall.  WHAT.  His quick trust of Catwoman leads to his damn back being broken.  And when he gets back into Gotham, he laughs it off and recruits her to help him AGAIN!  WHAT!

2) Th ending.  Bruce Wayne is one of the most recognizable people on Earth.  Everyone knows what he looks like.  So you expect me to believe that he can just sit in a restaurant out in the open without any attempt to alter his appearance to disguise his identity, without any attempt at subterfuge, and NO ONE WILL RECOGNIZE HIM?  Unless he's in North Korea, that dog doesn't fucking hunt, my friends.  No way. 

3) Been stated before, but it bears repeating: the Bruce/MiranTalia relationship is barely a relationship, so that moment where she quite literally stabs him in the back means jack shit except, "Oh no, Batman got stabbed!"


Hi so i just joined and was reading the thread and wanted to reply.

1) I agree the Blake thing was gimmicky with him knowing who Bruce is, but it's a movie. As far as Catwoman goes, Gotham has 2 or 3 days left before it blows up. He is going to have to put his blind trust in people to get things done. If the city is about to blow up, you assume someone as capable as Selina doesn't want to die with everyone else. You hope she can be trusted because you need her.

2) Bruce is not an actor or pop star he is a billionaire head of a corporation. Michael Bloomberg is the same thing plus the mayor of New York, I doubt he would be recognized in Seattle, let alone Paris. It has also been 8 years since his tabloid playboy days, people forget. If Rupert Murdoch was walking next to you on the street, would you recognize him?

You mention that Ra's Al Ghul recognized him in prison. Remember, Ra's previously tried to bring down Gotham but the philanthropic work of Bruce's parents foiled his plans. He may have had an eye on Bruce his whole life.

3) The Bruce/Miranda relationship was not very deep, but again he needed an ally when he lost everything. He put his trust in her because he needed to. So yeah that moment does mean something because he realizes "holy shit, my trust in her helped this plan come together". He showed her the reactor that threatened Gotham, before that only Bruce and Luscious knew. His actions put the bomb in Bane's hand.

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Originally Posted by Micah Robinson View Post

Was the "The Pit" 50 miles away or was it ACROSS THE OCEAN IN ANOTHER COUNTRY? What the fuck training gets you into the US from Asia if you have no money and the US is under internal assault from a terrorist with a nuclear bomb? Was not Gotham being occupied by a guy who ALSO was a member of League of Shadows, criminal, and was apparently better at both than Wayne?

"It's A Comic Book Movie" or "He's Batman" works against EXTERNAL logic, not the internal logic of the nightmare scenario this movie set up.

Because. He's. The. Fucking. Batman.....

It's really not that hard to reconstruct.   Bruce gets a ride into town, hits the internet cafe, hacks into Mitt Romney's Swiss Bank Account, secures some papers with said money, charters a private jet to the states, does some ninja shit to get back on Gotham (most likely dressing as one of Bane's men), and that's it.   It was already established that he's good at ninja shit and hacking (and this was established in movie) so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he would be able to get from Morroco to Gotham in 48 hours flat with his skill set.    I didn't need to see it to make that leap of logic.    I didn't even think it was a thing until I came on here Smile

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Originally Posted by dynamotv View Post

Harvey Dent/Two Face:   Another easy one since the last incarnation of Two Face was really Tommy Lee Jones playing The Joker.

I don't know, man - I thought Billy Dee really knocked it out of the park in his 5 seconds of screen time in Batman '89.

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Originally Posted by Bucho View Post

What made it jarring for you? Where is the disconnect between "Bruce Wayne is a ninja" and "Bruce Wayne can be pretty much wherever he wants to be"?

I was jarred by the fact that the last time we saw Bruce Wayne, he was sprinting in some desert, then the next time we saw him, he was appearing from the shadows in an impenetrable city. It's a quibble easily explained by "He's Batman, dude!" ... I'm fine with that.

How do they explain Bruce Wayne being dead?  They just writing him off as a victim of Scarecrow's kangaroo court?  Speaking of, those scene made me really want a full-on No Man's Land adaptation.

I also think the film would have been much more involving had it started with Bane's break-in at the stock exchange.  Junk all that "gone for eight years" stuff and just have Batman still doing his thing, only with the cops chasing him.  Would have given the film some energy right off the bat, and not had the awkward sequence of events where Bats is hurt, gets better, gets hurt again, and gets better again.

I would have loved to have seen Lando as two face circa 1992.   Completely forgot he was in Batman '89.

Took the boys to see it today. Was definately nice closure on the story. I was fine with Batman sacrificing himself for Gotham....it seemed a fitting end to the story. But the denoumont proved me wrong. I was pleased to see the where are they now at the end.

Hardy as Bane was fantastic, as was noted by someone else in the thread the "Do you feel in charge?" moment was sublime....inspired a similar reaction in me as the Hulk Bam Bam with Loki in the Avengers.

Hathaway as Catwoman was delicious. She nailed it and created a catwoman that will endure. Really reminded me of the Cameron Diaz character in Gangs of New York, only sexier and more likeable.

The rest of the cast did a great job, with a cast like that you would expect it, but still nice to see everyone invested and bringing a strong performance.

I think the whole judge scarecrow thing was supposed to be analogous of the guillotine courts of the French Revolution. But if it was, it was a weak ass version. The only moment that took me out of the movie was the Cillian Murphy sentancing Gordan and co. to death by Bunga Bungs (if you know that old joke). It seemed out of place in the movie and rather pointless. But I think that goes back to the dissection of the movies politics which is where the criticism of this film will come from. By having your big bad spew disengenous socialist rhetoric while not acting in concert with those values you are going to alienate a large portion of the intelligentsia. When right wing bats saves the rich from the mob and defeats Che on steroids it certainly feeds the fox news loving crowd. The movie stopped short of presenting a definative stance. I remember one conversation between Selina and her friend that addressed the issue, but it was 15 seconds of the entire movie. On the whole, we saw the league army, we saw the released prisoners, we saw the rich, we saw the cops. There were no regular folk in this film other than the orphans. One of the best things about TDK was the people on the boats and their wrestling with the push the button question. The fact that those boats did not explode was Batman's victory over the Joker, his refutation of the Joker's thesis. Bane's thesis was never legitimate, and the regular folk never made a choice. This felt like a cop out to me, and it takes away from what is otherwise a very enjoyable film. I would love to see Nolan do a movie about revolution and not back away from the real questions.

Bats 2 face offs with Bane were definately a call back to Rocky 3, but they were also a call back to the Dark Knight Returns. The were almost beat for beat replays of the two fights with the hulking gang leader (who looked a lot like Bane).

All in all a good watch and a satisfying end to a good series.

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Originally Posted by dynamotv View Post

It was already established that he's good at ninja shit and hacking (and this was established in movie) so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he would be able to get from Morroco to Gotham in 48 hours flat with his skill set.    I didn't need to see it to make that leap of logic.    I didn't even think it was a thing until I came on here Smile

Oh, you mean how he has Alfred Google "Bane" and then has Lucius do all of the "hacking/computer stuff"? Oh, wait...I forgot he looked up Selina Kyle for 10 seconds or so when the pearls got jacked. Why does he not hack back into the stock exchange and restore his fortune before they come repo everything 7 seconds after some bad stock trades are made in name? Why does he let Miranda Tate into his life with no questions asked and no knowledge of her when he does everything but pull up the credit report of the sketchy Asian guy that wanted to partner with Wayne Enterprises in TDK? Why are his "ninja skills" so shit when he merely has a bum knee, but when he's recovering from a BROKEN BACK, the fucker's unbeatable?

Again, this is using the text of these films. Even if you want to limit it to TDKR strictly, basically everything that presents an impediment to him or challenges him in the first half of the movie is meaningless in the second half. He practically skips out of the worst prison on Earth. Rehabs a broken back in weeks with a punch and pushups. Teleports back into Gotham in the best shape of his life. Apparently has transcended money itself somehow. Beats Bane in a straight up fist fight despite having learned no additional fight training. All leading us to a finale where the deus ex ma...I mean The Bat and the BatPod stop all of the bad guys and solve all of the problems.

That second Bane fight would have been a great chance to show Batman using psychology to beat his opponent rather than brute strength.  Play up on what he learned of Bane while in the Pit.  Use the fear aspect that's the entire reason he dresses as a bat.  Twist the dagger about how his mother --

Oh, wait, no, the big reveal is that that kid was actually Talia, can't ruin that, so let's just have Batman ... I don't know, hit him harder or something.

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Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

That second Bane fight would have been a great chance to show Batman using psychology to beat his opponent rather than brute strength.  Play up on what he learned of Bane while in the Pit.  Use the fear aspect that's the entire reason he dresses as a bat.  Twist the dagger about how his mother --

Oh, wait, no, the big reveal is that that kid was actually Talia, can't ruin that, so let's just have Batman ... I don't know, hit him harder or something.

In the first fight Bane chastises him for fighting like a 'young man'. He is all power trying to smash the giant in front of him.

In prison he learns Bane's mask is his weakness, he needs it or becomes debilitated.

In the second fight bats is a counter puncher, making Bane miss until he breaks the mask. He then avoids Banes next big flurry (smashed columns etc) and moves in on him while he is injured and tired.

Now we did not have a scene of Bats and Apollo coming up with a new gameplan and then watch as the announcers marvel at the innovative fight strategy....but it is all there.

Seems to me that if your opponent has some giant apparatus on his face, that it might be a weakness shouldn't be this huge revelation.

And oh god some of the exposition dumps in this thing.  The most laughable one is when Selina is trying to get the Clean Slate from Dagget and he literally explains what it is to her while she's got him pinned to the ground.  And Alfred's "What if there was a letter from Rachel?" scene is just as awkward.  Then there's the way the last third of the film turns into Flashback Theater.  There's just so much clumsiness here.

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Originally Posted by Micah Robinson View Post

Oh, you mean how he has Alfred Google "Bane" and then has Lucius do all of the "hacking/computer stuff"? Oh, wait...I forgot he looked up Selina Kyle for 10 seconds or so when the pearls got jacked. Why does he not hack back into the stock exchange and restore his fortune before they come repo everything 7 seconds after some bad stock trades are made in name? Why does he let Miranda Tate into his life with no questions asked and no knowledge of her when he does everything but pull up the credit report of the sketchy Asian guy that wanted to partner with Wayne Enterprises in TDK? Why are his "ninja skills" so shit when he merely has a bum knee, but when he's recovering from a BROKEN BACK, the fucker's unbeatable?

Again, this is using the text of these films. Even if you want to limit it to TDKR strictly, basically everything that presents an impediment to him or challenges him in the first half of the movie is meaningless in the second half. He practically skips out of the worst prison on Earth. Rehabs a broken back in weeks with a punch and pushups. Teleports back into Gotham in the best shape of his life. Apparently has transcended money itself somehow. Beats Bane in a straight up fist fight despite having learned no additional fight training. All leading us to a finale where the deus ex ma...I mean The Bat and the BatPod stop all of the bad guys and solve all of the problems.

Look, like every adventure movie ever made, if you don't buy into a lot of this stuff, then this movie just isn't for you. No big deal. But most of this isn't even that hard to explain.

Bruce wouldn't "hack into the stock exchange" because it would be wildly out of character to care about his fortune to such an extent that he'd break the law to just get it back; regardless, he didn't ever seem that worried, and didn't Fox say something about it being fraud? I would think this stuff would eventually work itself out. The movie certainly didn't make that big of a deal out it. It seemed mostly to set up the "they turned off the power" joke.

There's nothing to show that Bruce DIDN'T look up Miranda Tate, and I like to think she was most likely looked up, but he didn't find anything suspicious, since, ya know, her entire master plan revolved around concealing her identity for many many years. Anyways, a scene of him checking out her Wikipedia page and going, "Mmmm, seems legit..." would raise red flags and spoil the surprise. It's better they don't mention anything at all. And everything about him fighting better is right there in the movie: Alfred knows that Bruce, at this point, simply wants to die. That's why he leaves, because he can't watch Bruce throw himself away like that. He fights like a maniac twenty-year old. That's why he lost to Bane in the first fight, and he wins in the second because he's learned to fear death again. And if you think having Bruce in prison for forty-five minutes of screen time/months of movie time trying to climb out over and over until he's finally successful is "skipping out of prison", then clearly you had a very different take on what this movie was showing us.

 Just saw it, yeah it's not anywhere near as good as The Dark Knight or BB... I will say though it might be the most ambitious Batman film ever... I didn't buy Catwoman at all...

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Originally Posted by zikade zarathos View Post

Look, like every adventure movie ever made, if you don't buy into a lot of this stuff, then this movie just isn't for you. No big deal. But most of this isn't even that hard to explain.

Bruce wouldn't "hack into the stock exchange" because it would be wildly out of character to care about his fortune to such an extent that he'd break the law to just get it back; regardless, he didn't ever seem that worried, and didn't Fox say something about it being fraud? I would think this stuff would eventually work itself out. The movie certainly didn't make that big of a deal out it. It seemed mostly to set up the "they turned off the power" joke.

There's nothing to show that Bruce DIDN'T look up Miranda Tate, and I like to think she was most likely looked up, but he didn't find anything suspicious, since, ya know, her entire master plan revolved around concealing her identity for many many years. Anyways, a scene of him checking out her Wikipedia page and going, "Mmmm, seems legit..." would raise red flags and spoil the surprise. It's better they don't mention anything at all. And everything about him fighting better is right there in the movie: Alfred knows that Bruce, at this point, simply wants to die. That's why he leaves, because he can't watch Bruce throw himself away like that. He fights like a maniac twenty-year old. That's why he lost to Bane in the first fight, and he wins in the second because he's learned to fear death again. And if you think having Bruce in prison for forty-five minutes of screen time/months of movie time trying to climb out over and over until he's finally successful is "skipping out of prison", then clearly you had a very different take on what this movie was showing us.

The "Bruce Wayne is broke" thing is one of the worst conceits because they make a huge deal out of it with him comically getting things disconnected or repo'd in 24 hours after bad stock trades, and then it being totally immaterial for the other 95 percent of the movie. For two movies now, we see that huge budgets and lots of parts ordering and restocking is needed to enable him to be Batman. Here...just willpower, I guess?

The only difference between the two fights is that he fucks up Bane's mask which makes him goes apeshit in the second fight. That's it. He's still the offensive, ineffective fighter for most of it. Bruce's 15 minutes of prison screentime is 80 percent being fed, taken care of and listening to stories from inmates (and pushups!), and 20 percent of his 3 attempts to climb out (none of which re-injure a freshly broken back).

The second half flip also comically turns the villains into braindead fools. Plenty of people have shot massive holes in Talia/Bane's plan, but one of the most bewildering setups is rarely touched. As the Gotham PD is freed and slowly marches on Bane's forces, they tell them to turn around and disperse as if they were a legitimate group trying to avoid casualties! Like the GCPD, trapped underground for months, is going to peel off and acquiesce to terrorists because they point guns at them! The vast majority of Bane's people are crazed, violent criminals, and they're going to sit in an armed Tumbler and WAIT until they see the cops aren't going to turn around for sure? The same guys with the "Death/Exile" court? Really? It's all to set up that "inspirational" moment when Batman kicks it off by shooting the Tumbler. Blech.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zikade zarathos View Post

Anyways, a scene of him checking out her Wikipedia page and going, "Mmmm, seems legit..." would raise red flags and spoil the surprise. It's better they don't mention anything at all.

It's necessary they don't mention anything at all, because the entire twist depends on it.

A lot of the stuff with Melinda and Selina makes this feel like it's a sequel to a Batman film we never saw.