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Full Version: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES Post-release thread.....
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Originally Posted by Rando View Post

I still don't see what was so bad about the Pit they put Wayne in, other than it being a motivation factory/rehab facility (with closed circuit TV direct from Gotham).  For some reason I was expecting Wayne to be tormented mentally and physically like it appears Bane was.

I think the Pit was a much worse place when Bane and Talia were residents. The man who helps Wayne tells him "This is Bane's prison now. He wouldn't want the story told".

I may be way off, but I don't think the warlord, whose daughter Ra's married, runs it anymore. I think Bane does, and the inmates there have a sort of understanding and peace amongst themselves.

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Originally Posted by Ianthe View Post

ETA: Sorry, and really stupid amateur hour shit like it taking all of "8 minutes" to go from full daylight to full night in the chase scene after the stock-engage raid just got me offside right from the get-go.

This. It took me a second to realize but then I was like, what, when did it get dark!? I can accept leaps in logic like, well, the whole Batman thing but when silliness like this happens, it can take me right out of a movie.

I enjoyed the film but also found it pretty sloppy. It doesn't hold up very well if you think about it much. That's a little aggravating since you spend 2+ hours straining to hear dialogue and keep track of what's going on over the score. In the end, I probably didn't need to put that much effort into it.

Also, I understand why they would want to go big in the finale, but Bane taking over all of Gotham with only an hour or so left in the film to span several months- that was maybe a little too ambitious.

A decent film on the surface but easily my least favorite of the trilogy.

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Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post

That Gordan moment drove me crazy! I got the reference because I had seen BB recently, but I liked the flashback. It's a wonderful moment in BB and I think literally seeing young Bruce in that moment works.

Gordan then essentially going "Huuuuwhuuuuu?" not only insults the audience it makes Gordan look buffoonish. Especially, considering (thank you Nooj) that in this Gotham a young orphan figured it out by looking at him (or into his soul or whatever).

I know this is just fan wank but I desperately wanted him to say something like "Give me some credit, Bruce" Anything other than "Bruce...Waaaynne?!" *

And even if you are having Gordan be clueless, trust in Gary fucking Oldman to sell it wordlessly.

That was my main beef with the "Bruce Waaaaayne?" line.  That is Gary fucking Oldman.  His face can tell the story.

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This might be veering into fan-fic territory,  but I think the film would be improved by reversing the structure.  Have Bane bust the prisoners out of Blackgate first thing.  Forget about Miranda being a love interest and ally -- have her be Dagget, launching a ruthless but legal takeover of Wayne Industries.  So you have Bruce being assaulted from both sides, as he battles Miranda's takeover by day and the released criminals and the cops by night.  You could even still have the eight year retirement if you wanted; either way, the constant fighting is wearing him down mentally and physicallyl.  Then you reveal Miranda and Bane at the midway point, Bane breaks Batman, and then you launch into the "we're freeing Gotham from the oppressors" angle.

This is a great idea, specifically because it gives us some time to get to know Talia and her rage, and maybe give Bane more breathing room.  Also, Dagget's stupid face annoyed me all movie long.  As awesome and satisifying as the scene is where Bane taunts and breaks his stupid face, it wasn't worth his presence to have.

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Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

This is a great idea, specifically because it gives us some time to get to know Talia and her rage, and maybe give Bane more breathing room.  Also, Dagget's stupid face annoyed me all movie long.  As awesome and satisifying as the scene is where Bane taunts and breaks his stupid face, it wasn't worth his presence to have.

You should see Animal Kingdom, if you haven't already. That stupid face is entirely capable of staring Bane the fuck down.

I had to look Dagget up on IMDB to figure out where I'd seen that face. 

"Is it Tim Blake Nelson's younger brother or something???"

I had forgotten about Animal Kingdom.  And yes... that actor is VERY capable of creeping anyone the fuck-out.

Animal Kingdom was fresh in my mind, so I was expecting him to play a much larger part than he actually did. One of the first-world problems I have with Nolan and his team's excellent casting choices in smaller roles is that the actors' previous work prepares you for something much bigger for the characters they play than what happens to them onscreen. This is in no way a complaint, just an observation.

Totally knew Cotillard was Talia from her dialogue with Bruce, but the Nolans totally did so many about-faces with Bane's origin, I actually thought she would be a good guy. I love how they play both with and against fan expectations. It's masterful.

Yeah,

remember when people thought that Talia might ally with Batman and lead the League of Shadows against the ex-communicated Bane's rebel League?

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Originally Posted by neoolong View Post

Yeah,

remember when people thought that Talia might ally with Batman and lead the League of Shadows against the ex-communicated Bane's rebel League?

I don't, because I've maintained relatively spoiler-free. I just so wanted her not to be evil, mostly because Marion's so lovely, but I'll admit my contextual knowledge of the comics also played a role in rooting for her.

I dearly want a Batman with a thick Bronx Gotham accent.

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Originally Posted by MikeI View Post

I dearly want a Batman with a thick Bronx Gotham accent.

"Ya miss'ta spat!"

Maybe it's just the way the character was written, but Marion was pretty damn boring to me in this movie.  Having Catwoman being such a magnetic attractive presence doesn't help her, in any case.

A[quote name="Richard Dickson" url="/community/t/144220/the-dark-knight-rises-post-release-thread/750#post_3362555"]This might be veering into fan-fic territory,  but I think the film would be improved by reversing the structure.  Have Bane bust the prisoners out of Blackgate first thing.  Forget about Miranda being a love interest and ally -- have her be Dagget, launching a ruthless but legal takeover of Wayne Industries.  So you have Bruce being assaulted from both sides, as he battles Miranda's takeover by day and the released criminals and the cops by night.  You could even still have the eight year retirement if you wanted; either way, the constant fighting is wearing him down mentally and physicallyl.  Then you reveal Miranda and Bane at the midway point, Bane breaks Batman, and then you launch into the "we're freeing Gotham from the oppressors" angle.
[/quote]

Agreed, but I feel the cop out of having the criminals being kept up in jail, thus shutting up Batman ends up hurting the film. Instead of him rising, then rerising, he should of just been a very tired OCD crime fighter stuck in his ways.

That way Alfred's burden of keeping the secret would of meant more. Also it didn't need to be so bluntly said by Alfred. You think after 8 years, with the company starting to make less money, Bruce's isolation, and his general stance of guardian, he might speak something to Bruce? We could of at least had Alfred in the film longer, visually and verbally, showing the toll of hiding the secret as well.

Okay back to Batman. Having him not retired allows us to believe in Batman as the all sacrificing "something more" he was trying to be at the end of TDK. It would also make his fall at the hands of Bane all the more powerful, and not just a 2nd fall. The idea of Bane attacking him in his home would of been all the better, as it would of allowed further emphasis on not just destroying Wayne, but destroying Wayne where he is at home. No where would be safe!

While maintaining his Bruce Wayne side, Miranda would of been his love interest from the get go, adding further time for the relationship to develop and for it's breakage to be all the more powerful.

Also the thing is, how did Bruce really fall, only to rise? He was already a mopey recluse, lost all his money, and in the end gains Catwoman, and peace of mind? Giving his house away?
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Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

I also realized this. Agreed that Nolan has done an amazing job rolling in a shitload of Batman references and comic elements into his movies while also adapting and transforming them.


Even the "happily ever after" ending for Bruce isn't entirely divorced from the comics.  Just think of these films as an adaptation of "Earth-Two" Batman, who actually did (at least for a time) retire and settle down with Selina Kyle.

My only beef with the ending is that a (former) multi-billionaire like Bruce Wayne probably would eventually be recognized by more than just his butler.  Clean slate and hidden heart of gold or not, I don't think Selina would want to live as a hermit.

I am sure Selina and Bruce will get into adventures sometimes. Non stealing adventures mostly.

The Batman visits Aurora, CO victims:

And an awesome behind-the-scenes pic:

I liked Dark Knight better, but this is a good capper to the trilogy.  Bane was pulled off admirably, but really Nolan villains get all the best dialog anyway so it's nothing new.

It's a shame Nolan's done with Batman.  I would've liked to have seen his take on other Batman villains.  Particularly The Riddler, because his Batman needed a more cerebral opponent at times.

Dreamcasting for that role that will never be filled: Bryan Cranston.

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Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

But you could argue his giving up is what allowed Bane to come in and do what he did to Gotham.  Nolan seems to be saying you can put the escalation genie back in the bottle, and I'm not sure it's that simple.

No, it isn't - the same occurred to me too. But I think it not being simple has been the point Nolan has been making all along. What's interesting here is that the LoS is the one threat Wayne faces that he didn't arguably create; he stumbles onto them, they give him the inspiration for the Batman, but they were there all along and would've attempted to destroy Gotham one way or another. Maybe by adopting their methods in the interests of protecting society rather than breaking it he made himself the antidote to the LoS, and that was really his purpose all along?

There's a lot of ambivalence in Nolan's version of Batman, and the more I think about it the more I think it's intentional. And going back to the idea of growing up, what defines that process more than the fact that we learn that following our principles too rigidly can do just as much bad as it does good, and that the line between them is often blurry? I don't know if I have a definitive point on this one, but I like that there's no clear ethical through-line with this. Ultimately Bruce learns to do the right thing at the right moment, but still attend to his own happiness - and isn't that the lesson we all spend our lives learning?

Hm. Well that's all I'vegot at this stage. WAY too fucking early in the morning here to be getting all philosophical and stuff.

I was disappointed that after terrorizing Gotham and being built into this indestructible menace Bane was dispatched so unceremoniously-- and only after being revealed to be a mere minion. At some point that mask should have been ripped off. I expected there to be some reveal of what was going on with his face underneath but no. Tom Hardy did a great job with the restrictive headgear.  Too bad his character was completely neutered at the film's end. Was it ever explained how Bane eats?

Anne Hathaway was great. She was indeed very "adaptable". I loved Selina's quick adjustments to every scenario that was thrown at her.

Joseph Gorden-Levitt was also a highlight.

If I never see Marion Cotillard in another English-language film it won't be too soon. Her voice grates and she basically played her character from Inception.Her death-scene was cringe-worthy, She has to be one of the most over-rated actresses working today.

I am in the minority of people who preferred Batman Begins to TDK. I also prefer it to TDKR. I loved the straightfoward origin story of someone building up to something great. Also BB was infinitely more quotable. Basically everything Rha's Al Ghul said was poetic (become more than a man, Justice is balance,..etc).

AWow, I walked out of this movie and I feel depressed. Excellent acting, no shortage of good ideas, but the thing was just too overstuffed in a way that reeked of hubris. Batman gets lost in his own movie and little carries the weight it should, the movie is so busy with it's needlessly complex plot machinations, under developed side characters and exposition that it felt largely lifeless.

I will write more tomorrow but I feel like they really missed the ball. This could have worked as two movies, but as one it's a bust for me. I feel like it's fucking tragic, because with some aggressive editing the core of an excellent Batman story was right there, and it's a shame this is how Bale's time in the cowl comes to a close.

Full disclosure, some thug threatened me in the theater during the first five minutes of the movie, which weighed heavily on my mind. I am hoping that without that distraction, the movie will play better for me on home video. I feel no desire to see it in a theater again though.

I can live with all of the weak plot threads, except for 9-year-old Blake figuring out Bruce Wayne was secretly Batman because he saw him smile, once. Nolan expects us to buy this despite the fact that no one else in Gotham City ever figures out that Bruce Wayne is Batman. Fucking ridiculous.

Otherwise a great film!

As someone that liked this, I will say that the film felt rushed despite its length. I believe there were rumors that said the original time was in the 4-hour range? It's rare that I think a 165-minute movie would benefit from an extended cut, but I think it's true in this case.

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Full disclosure, some thug threatened me in the theater during the first five minutes of the movie, which weighed heavily on my mind. I am hoping that without that distraction, the movie will play better for me on home video. I feel no desire to see it in a theater again though.

Bring me next time! I'm 6'4 and I've been bulking up the last few months, and I LOOOOVE getting in jerks faces.  I would even caress the guys cheek and speak in the Bane voice for you.

"Do you feel like you're in control?"

Finally saw the film. Wow! First movie to make me say that this summer (and that includes The Avengers). It was the perfect ending to Christopher Nolan's trilogy and I truly hope they don't continue with Joseph Gordon Levitt. Not that I didn't enjoy his character, but it would just cheapen the film the way it ends now and become an imitation The Bourne Legacy or something. Where I felt Christian Bale was sort of sidelined in The Dark Knight, here he really shines and it brings the focus back to Bruce Wayne introduced in Batman Begins.

Great movie.

You see, I don't want to come off like a dick, but I just plain old DO NOT GET when somebody says Batman wowed them and Avengers did not.  The pacing in Batman is such a way and the action is sort of run of the will or straight forward that I can't picture the movie raising your pulse, and believe me I wanted it to.

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Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

The pacing in Batman is such a way and the action is sort of run of the will or straight forward that I can't picture the movie raising your pulse, and believe me I wanted it to.

That's kind of what I felt watching Avengers to be honest. That movie took a long time to get going while here it just clicked from the start. And the action raised my pulse in a way that Avengers never did. Look, I had fun with The Avengers and I don't want to turn this into a comparison cause they're two totally different kinds of film but it didn't surprise me in any way and I never felt "scared" for any of the characters. This on the other hand had me on the edge of my seat caring a whole lot. Different strokes, I guess.

To quote Beaks, Avengers was minimum bet filmmaking. It's entertaining enough, but it's got a front 45 minutes that come dangerously close to skidding off the rails, and while it end satisfyingly enough, it still never felt like a big to-do, as it took the most middle of the road and safest approach. A filling meal, but empty calories nonetheless. Points for doing it well, but I also wasn't bowled over by like most. TDKR, however "hot mess" it may seem,  is swinging for the fences with ambition, and brings it home for the most part (I could've done without Modine and the pacing's wobbly in spots). So I totally get being "wow"ed by this film and not the former.

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Originally Posted by Greg Clark View Post

To quote Beaks, Avengers was minimum bet filmmaking. It's entertaining enough, but it's got a front 45 minutes that come dangerously close to skidding off the rails, and while it end satisfyingly enough, it still never felt like a big to-do, as it took the most middle of the road and safest approach. A filling meal, but empty calories nonetheless. Points for doing it well, but I also wasn't bowled over by like most. TDKR, however "hot mess" it may seem,  is swinging for the fences with ambition, and brings it home for the most part (I could've done without Modine and the pacing's wobbly in spots). So I totally get being "wow"ed by this film and not the former.

(I think people's appreciation for the Avengers is completely ruled by that number, that seems to exist somewhere between 20 and 60. If you thought the first 20 minutes sucked, you probably loved the movie. 40 and you thought it was good to very good, 60 and you hated it. But it seems most can agree the first x number of minutes were not great /Avengers derail)

I don't think there's any question that TDKR earns its degree of difficulty points. It is a much more ambitious movie than Avengers, and it deserves the credit for it, but I can't forgive the script on this movie... maybe some of the editing, too. Too much wrong from ham-fisted dialogue, to all-too-convenient plot twists, to the deus-ex-machinitis. Everything else was aces, but without a script, it's just so many pretty frames.

It's like a triple lindy but it broke the platform before it was able to even start the dive. For me.

Haha I'm a 20 minute Avengers kind of guy.  In retrospect I like the first sequence a WHOLE lot more than the first time. But you guys are right, lets not turn this into comparisons.

I'm not aiding the comparison derail but I thought I'd offer one more opinion for you, Freeman.

I went into Avengers borderline ready to dislike it and found myself very satisfied with it. It made me laugh and smile quite a bit. That said, in the long run it rings of being a hollow experience of a film. It might have been more "fun" but, as Greg Clark said, it's empty calories and it will show as much once you get it home and watch it a few more times. TDKR (or the trilogy, for that matter) are like meat and potatoes to me; sure, it might not be as "fun" to watch but I find the level of flimmaking going on (even in the midst of certain weaknesses) to stimulate my mind, which goes a lot further than something that primarily plays to the eye.

Back on Batman: I absolutely loved the introduction of the 90 degree turn with the "wup-wup-wup" of the rubber wheel sounding. Funny thing is, I think this already happened in TDK after he shoots the trashcan and comes out to the Joker replying "Now there's a Batman". I always would squint during that scene because the way the bike flies out and the way the lights look are changed but it's dark so I couldn't really tell what was happening.

A[quote name="Shaun H" url="/community/t/144220/the-dark-knight-rises-post-release-thread/800#post_3363007"].

Back on Batman: I absolutely loved the introduction of the 90 degree turn with the "wup-wup-wup" of the rubber wheel sounding. Funny thing is, I think this already happened in TDK after he shoots the trashcan and comes out to the Joker replying "Now there's a Batman". I always would squint during that scene because the way the bike flies out and the way the lights look are changed but it's dark so I couldn't really tell what was happening.
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100% agreed. Whenever I saw that moment in Dark Knight, I wasn't entirely sure I was seeing what I thought I was seeing. It was very cool to have that maneuver confirmed in Dark Knight Rises. By far my favorite feature of the Bat Pod.

Least favorite feature? Unceremoniously dispatching menacing villains with tonally awkward 'comic' demises.

I know right!!!  I've always wondered what was going on with the wheels during that moment in Dark Knight, and it turns out the answer was FUCKING COOL STUFF.

The way it's wheels worked, the batpod should totally have been the Tumbler, instead of the tumbler being the Tumbler.

I'm a huge fan of the Nolan and the the first two films but this one didn't really work for me, and it's all because of a few elements:

-Waiting until the end to reveal that Miranda was actually Talia robbed us of the Talia character and as others have mentioned, the reveal robbed Bane of his importance.

-The fusion bomb.  I understand Nolan needed something to keep Gotham isolated from the rest of the world but it didn't work for me at all.  Especially since it was so obvious that they wouldn't have enough time to disarm it.

-How exactly did Bruce escape from the nuclear blast?

-John Blake taking up the cape and cowl.  It didn't feel right to me at all.

-Limited screen time for Michael Caine.  He's always so amazing and this time he wasn't in the film nearly enough.

What makes the TDKR even worse for me is that it's the last Batman film with all of the elements that made me love BB and TDK so much.  I'm sure that Warner Bros. will now fast track some Justice League bullshit to get some of that ridiculous Avengers money and the new Batman will fighting aliens or demons or some nonsense alongside The Flash and Green Lantern.  The Batman that I loved is finished and while he went out with a bang, it was a pretty mediocre bang.

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Originally Posted by Shaun H View Post

I absolutely loved the introduction of the 90 degree turn with the "wup-wup-wup" of the rubber wheel sounding. Funny thing is, I think this already happened in TDK after he shoots the trashcan and comes out to the Joker replying "Now there's a Batman". I always would squint during that scene because the way the bike flies out and the way the lights look are changed but it's dark so I couldn't really tell what was happening.

Additionally, I only realized on my recent rewatch that the batpod consisted of BOTH front tumbler wheels.  For some odd reason, I thought the front tire was just the left wheel, with the rear one being randomly stored in the chassis somewhere.  In my defense, I'd only seen the movie twice (theater and last week's revisit) and it makes about as much sense as the whole batpod ejection sequence to begin with.