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Avatar post-release discussion - Printable Version

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- arlo - 01-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Alexor
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I think this is what Boomer was really talking about. Yes, the Papyrus font is cheesy. But in a 160 minutes action movie with impressive special effect, convincing 3D and great action scenes, it's weird that a font is what stood out for some.

I get the feeling a small part of the public (if I go by the box-office) went in looking for flaws.

It was one of many weaknesses that stood out.


- Evi - 01-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Alexor
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I think this is what Boomer was really talking about. Yes, the Papyrus font is cheesy. But in a 160 minutes action movie with impressive special effect, convincing 3D and great action scenes, it's weird that a font is what stood out for some.

I get the feeling a small part of the public (if I go by the box-office) went in looking for flaws.

Maybe. But personally, I only look for little things like that when a film starts making me restless, which Avatar definitely did.


- boomer - 01-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Clark
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And please don't trot out the "classic love story" spiel--I had to live through that defense when Titanic came out, and here we go again.

ahhh yes, Titanic. A movie that came out to nearly universal praise and won a record tieing 11 oscars, but when it became too popular and made too much money it became cool to hate it.

Did you ever think that people like to see a "classic love story"? Sure beats the fuck out of "two cops that hate each other but bond while getting the bad guy" or "giant robots doing stuff on the screen I can't really make out".

My question was about the built in hate. Like you displayed or the guys above that are shitting on the font used in the subtitles. It's the font in the subtitles for crying out loud.

Is the story unique, no. But how it was displayed visually was.


- boomer - 01-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Alexor
View Post
I think this is what Boomer was really talking about. Yes, the Papyrus font is cheesy. But in a 160 minutes action movie with impressive special effect, convincing 3D and great action scenes, it's weird that a font is what stood out for some.

I get the feeling a small part of the public (if I go by the box-office) went in looking for flaws.

Yes...that's exactly it. Thanks


- the alexor - 01-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humanoid
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Maybe. But personally, I only look for little things like that when a film starts making me restless, which Avatar definitely did.

I also got restless in the second act and I also noticed the cheesy font but they're not the lasting impressions the film left me. It's the same thing with Star Trek in 2009. The script is horrible and the second half is mediocre and yet I came out of the theater with a big grin on my face because the film is very entertaining. Just like Avatar.


- phil - 01-02-2010

I thought the cheesy font was called "Symptomatic" (heyoooooooooooo)


- litmus configuration - 01-02-2010

Speaking of fonts (and yeah, the use of Papyrus for the subtitles was tacky as hell), that terrible AVATAR logo that ends the film looked like it was designed by a nine year-old with zero design skill or artistic sensibility. I only mention it because it lands so heavily as a jump cut following the final shot of the story. Just a REALLY bad way to end a film that was otherwise so impressively immersive, design-wise.


- Nooj - 01-02-2010

So ugly. It felt like I just finished watching 9 or something.


- Evi - 01-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Litmus Configuration
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Speaking of fonts (and yeah, the use of Papyrus for the subtitles was tacky as hell), that terrible AVATAR logo that ends the film looked like it was designed by a nine year-old with zero design skill or artistic sensibility. I only mention it because it lands so heavily as a jump cut following the final shot of the story. Just a REALLY bad way to end a film that was otherwise so impressively immersive, design-wise.

I was too busy being assaulted by the end credits song to notice.


- jacknifejohnny - 01-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humanoid
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I was too busy being assaulted by the end credits song to notice.

As I was leaving the theater, the song was like being jeered and taunted while walking away from a fight. I was like, "Hey, you fucking got me, I can't deal with this shit right now, so I'm just gonna walk away. Just walk away."


- captain mal - 01-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arlo
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I saw Avatar with some friends, all graphic designers, and we all cracked up at the first site of the subtitles, all rendered in effing Papyrus. I think this speaks volumes to how hack the whole thing is.

Is there anything more insufferable than font snobs?


- graham - 01-02-2010

I thought the font was called 'Helwhatweretheythinkinga'.


- Richard Dickson - 01-02-2010

Took my parents to see it in IMAX 3D today (I'd only seen it in Real 3D previously) and I still enjoyed it, and it looked even more spectacular in the larger format. While my dad was firmly in the "Tired story but it looks amazing", my mom flat out loved it, which is undoubtedly why this is doing so well.


- graham - 01-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
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Took my parents to see it in IMAX 3D today (I'd only seen it in Real 3D previously) and I still enjoyed it, and it looked even more spectacular in the larger format. While my dad was firmly in the "Tired story but it looks amazing", my mom flat out loved it, which is undoubtedly why this is doing so well.

...Because of YOUR mom?
Give'r a hug from me!


- brundleflyboy - 01-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Mal
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Is there anything more insufferable than font snobs?

Font snobs? Hating or loving typography is no more snobbish than hating or loving any other type of Design.


- Richard Dickson - 01-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham
View Post
...Because of YOUR mom?
Give'r a hug from me!

Her demographic, I meant. If a 60-year old grandmother from North Carolina can walk out of this wowed, it's definitely hitting all the quadrants.


- graham - 01-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
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Her demographic, I meant. If a 60-year old grandmother from North Carolina can walk out of this wowed, it's definitely hitting all the quadrants.

Yeah, but did she THINK about it, Richard?

Have you quizzed her?

Make her read the original transcript/scriptment 'Clockwork Orange'-style with Horner being played backward through headphones and SEE if she likes it THEN!!

LET'S SEE WHAT SHE SAYS THEN!!!!
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


...sorry...


- phil - 01-02-2010

Hell yeah, get that 60 year-old woman demo sewn tha fuck UP, Cameron!

Did she find it "nice"?


- Bucho - 01-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boomer
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Did it suck, no. It was "Pocahontas in Space". It's a great story retold. Yet everyone trashes it because it's not original.

Did everyone trash District 9 because it was just a retread of Alien Nation? No, we looked past that and marveled in the amazing way this story was told and how a simple thing like location can resonate strongly in a movie. What about Inglourious Basterds? Did people trash it because the story was just a dumb revenge fantasy with an ending that made no sense at all historically? Nope there too. We looked at that as a masterpiece in storytelling, dialog and the theme of the power of cinema.

So why the hatred on Avatar. It was what it was. A classic love story retold in a location and style that allowed some of the most beautiful images I have ever seen in a theater ever before be shown.

Not everyone bashed the unoriginality Boomer. I wasn't the only one who pointed out that I have no problem with an unoriginal story per se, it's the storytelling that falls flat in Avatar.

I also wasn't the only one to say that in spite of the hammy dialogue, 2D characters and flat relationships the pretty and fun world of Pandora and its beasts, not to mention some cool hardware, is still a pretty damn good time at the multiplex.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Blank
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Bottom line is, it's only a movie. Which will be available at gas-station convenience stores on used DVD for $9.99 a year from now. You over there liked it, you over there didn't like it, duly noted, next, move on.

Trying to shut down conversation about a current movie on a movie-site message board? You don't realize that to Chewers "only a movie" means "only one of the coolest forms of art and entertainment that's ever existed? What the Dickens are you on about Martin?


- captain mal - 01-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrundleFlyboy
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Font snobs? Hating or loving typography is no more snobbish than hating or loving any other type of Design.

Didn't say it was. As a designer myself, I have an interest in typography, but I'm not so self-important that that I laugh out loud in public when I see design that offends my more particular sensibilities. Don't get me wrong, insular intellectual collectivism can be just as fun as any other form of wanking off, but let's not pretend it's anything other than snobbery.

I have specific philosophic issues with font snobbery in particular, but this isn't the thread for it, so I'll let it go.


- arlo - 01-03-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Mal
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Didn't say it was. As a designer myself, I have an interest in typography, but I'm not so self-important that that I laugh out loud in public when I see design that offends my more particular sensibilities. Don't get me wrong, insular intellectual collectivism can be just as fun as any other form of wanking off, but let's not pretend it's anything other than snobbery.

I have specific philosophic issues with font snobbery in particular, but this isn't the thread for it, so I'll let it go.

It wasn't "font snobbery" at work, but the simple thought that it was a lazy decision.


- Nooj - 01-03-2010

Shit. My parents just told me they wanna go see this on Sunday. NOOOOOO!!!! hahahaha


- MichaelM - 01-03-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arlo
View Post
It wasn't "font snobbery" at work, but the simple thought that it was a lazy decision.

Fuck yes. I thought the same thing, when the first trailer was released. "Papyrus" is such an overused, ubiquitous font - has been for a good 20 years or more - that it really spoke of laziness.

And I have no qualms in saying I'm a font snob.


- noahthestud - 01-03-2010

I saw it again tonight with some friends in a packed theater and loved it even more than the first time. I was a bit worried that after spending two weeks in this forum reading about every single tiny flaw in the film that that it would spoil some of my enjoyment, but it had no effect.

I was surprised that I actually cried this time watching Neytiri cradling Jake's body in her arms. I had no problem investing in the two lead characters. I also found myself liking Michelle Rodriguez's character more the second time around and her death had a bigger impact.

I saw it in RealD instead of IMAX this time. I did missing having the huge screen which increased the immersiveness of the 3D.


- scumbag - 01-03-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aranion
View Post
Fuck yes. I thought the same thing, when the first trailer was released. "Papyrus" is such an overused, ubiquitous font - has been for a good 20 years or more - that it really spoke of laziness.

I agree and disagree with you. Given that this is a movie about a respectable tribal society in many ways, the font does fit and isn't horribly out of place thematically.

But you're completely right that its an overused, ubiquitous font. My guess is, whoever picked the font (and their respective higher-ups) didn't realize how over-used it is. But then again, I'm kinda the kind that gives people the benefit of the doubt, so I dunno.


- blueharvester - 01-03-2010

Weird, I seem to remember that the German version didn't have the Papyrus subtitles. It was more of an Episode I style font.

But I second the notion that the end title in alien greenish tone was ugly as hell. Everything associated with the Navi is blueish and the whole end scene is blue and then all of a sudden this ugly title card appears. maybe it was a last minute thing.


- adriandyka - 01-03-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoahtheStud
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I also found myself liking Michelle Rodriguez's character more the second time around and her death had a bigger impact.

.

Can I ask why? I can barely remeber her character except for 'I didn't sign up for this'. To quote that Star Wars review, how would you describe her character?


- phil - 01-03-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdrianDyka
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Can I ask why? I can barely remeber her character except for 'I didn't sign up for this'. To quote that Star Wars review, how would you describe her character?

"Vasquez."

On the font tip, fits into my "nothing in this movie is tired/overdone if you're 10 years old" non-defense.


- brundleflyboy - 01-03-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scumbag
View Post
I agree and disagree with you. Given that this is a movie about a respectable tribal society in many ways, the font does fit and isn't horribly out of place thematically.

But you're completely right that its an overused, ubiquitous font. My guess is, whoever picked the font (and their respective higher-ups) didn't realize how over-used it is. But then again, I'm kinda the kind that gives people the benefit of the doubt, so I dunno.

Such was the awful script, using Zapf Dingbats would not have adversely harmed the film.


- neoolong - 01-04-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil
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"Vasquez."

On the font tip, fits into my "nothing in this movie is tired/overdone if you're 10 years old" non-defense.

Ferro actually. While Vasquez and Chacon are hispanic characters, Trudy's not as much of a tough chica as Vasquez was.

I was surprised too that she didn't end up being Vasquez 2.0.


- litmus configuration - 01-04-2010

This might have been brought up elsewhere but why wasn't Trudy punished, court-martialed and/or executed for desertion when she broke formation and returned to base during the attack on Home Tree? I can't imagine Quaritch would have been pleased. But then the next time we see her, she just strolls into the brig with a smile to rescue the gang.

Oh wait, I looked it up on IMDb and found this:

Quote:

Plot holes: During the attack on Hometree, Trudy decides not to fire her missiles and actually retreats in her helicopter (much to the surprise of the gunman who had been firing on the Navi). Wouldn't she have faced some sort of disciplinary action for this? Yet later in the film, she appears to have full access to the guarded prisoners.

But also on IMDb's goof list is the following:

Quote:

Plot holes: Near the ending of the movie, after the Na'vi have taken over the base, when they are marching the human military back onto the cargo planes to leave they are not wearing any masks to protect them from the air.

Ouch. That's a bad one.


- nexus-7 - 01-04-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Litmus Configuration
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Ouch. That's a bad one.

I can't believe that one. Surely more people would have brought it up? I watched the movie twice and didn't notice.


- Richard Dickson - 01-04-2010

That second one is wrong, they're wearing masks.


- hammerhead - 01-04-2010

As for Trudy, maybe she got busted to running meals on wheels. Remember, they're not a bona fide military force but a Blackwater-type deal, so questions of court-martial are inapplicable.


- devincf - 01-04-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammerhead
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As for Trudy, maybe she got busted to running meals on wheels. Remember, they're not a bona fide military force but a Blackwater-type deal, so questions of court-martial are inapplicable.

Which means they're probably not bound by a strict judicial code, actually, and can do what they like with her. Busting her down to a position where she can visit her friends in jail seems shockingly poorly thought out.