The Trouble City Forums
THE DARK KNIGHT RISES Post-release thread..... - Printable Version

+- The Trouble City Forums (http://citizens.trouble.city)
+-- Forum: Specific Cinema (http://citizens.trouble.city/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Forum: Films in Release or On Video (http://citizens.trouble.city/forumdisplay.php?fid=78)
+--- Thread: THE DARK KNIGHT RISES Post-release thread..... (/showthread.php?tid=144220)



- splatoon - 07-25-2012

Just got back, and all I can say is that this movie certainly felt 3 hours long, and unfortunately it only took 30 minutes to get there.




- harleyquinn22 - 07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

Maybe it's just the way the character was written, but Marion was pretty damn boring to me in this movie.  Having Catwoman being such a magnetic attractive presence doesn't help her, in any case.

I paid more attention to the costuming department's noble attempts to cover her baby bump than I did to anything she had to say or do until MUAHAHHAHAHAAAA I'M TALIA!




- slim - 07-25-2012

So. Late to the post-release party, as I only saw it last night. I've tried to do my due diligence and read or skim this bulk of this thread so I don't repeat any obvious points.

I liked it a hell of a lot. And more than I did "The Dark Knight". TDK was for me a collection of mostly brilliant scenes that never cohered as a whole-- lengthy while still seeming hurried and scattershot. "The Dark Knight Rises" shares many of the same flaws in dialogue and story-logic, a lot of which folks here have already have pointed out, and those I can't quibble with.

But despite all those flaws, TDKR held together better. Which is really pretty incredible considering Nolan was riffing plot-wise on "The Dark Knight Returns", "Knightfall" and "No Man's Land" all at once. And it had a sort of driving inevitability to it that appealed to me. When I got to the end I thought, "Oh, sure... How else could it end?" It actually made the other two films better to me in retrospect.

Over in the pre-release thread, discussing Dave Letterman's "spoiling" the movie, I made my iron-clad prediction that Batman would not die in this movie. I was only partly right. Bruce Wayne lived.

A lot has been written or said over the years about how Batman can withstand a multitude of wide-ranging interpretations. And I love the eternally-driven, Batman-is-his-real-identity, comic book interpretation of the last couple of decades as much as the next guy. But this is Nolan and company's interpretation, and it's remarkably consistent over the three films.

Wayne starts out as the bitter survivor of tragedy in "Begins", looking for revenge with a gun. He's shown that the evil that took his parents' lives is part of a bigger, systemic problem, and then defeating that becomes his mission. We never see Batman fighting a lot of random street crime. He's even dismissive of the Joker's antics at the beginning of TDK because he's focused on the Mob and corruption. And all the while, he's looking for an out, a way to consider his mission completed. He sees it in Dent, who sums it up pretty nicely in TDK: "The Batman doesn't want to do this forever. How could he?"

Like a lot of people, I was initially put off by Wayne's position at the beginning of TDKR-- having imagined that Batman went on, doing what Batman does after the end of TDK. But it ultimately made sense that Dent's martyrdom-- even built on lie-- achieved the same symbolic, inspirational purpose that Wayne tried to achieve as Batman. Wayne's real problem at the beginning of TDKR is that Rachel's death has left him with no life to return to.

TDKR completes that arc for Wayne. He gives the last full measure against the new threat of Bane, and is then able to move on and find peace. To close out this particular interpretation of Batman, it's hard to beat, in my humble opinion. (And when he reveals his identity to Gordon before flying off, I actually got a little choked up. That almost never happens to me.)

I like that we got that cafe scene at the end. And I like that Wayne left his legacy in Blake's hands. It had the same "and the beat goes on" quality that the last episode of "The Wire" had, only more hopeful.

But I hope WB don't try to carry on the Batman series in the Nolan vein. It's done, ended in the only way it could have. Time for a new interpretation, I think.




- freeman - 07-25-2012

Did any body else love how comically blunt Bane could be?  You have to respect that.

"Search his body.  Then I will kill you."

"Now is not the time for fear. That comes later."

"First, let me show you were we have made our home.  Then, I will break you."




- neoolong - 07-25-2012

Now imagine if he was actually a luchador.




- greg clark - 07-25-2012

I loved his little courtesies he'd sprinkle throughout the film. Especially when he takes his helmet back from the random stock exchange extra, who was holding it. "Thank you!"




- neoolong - 07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

Did any body else love how comically blunt Bane could be?  You have to respect that.

"Search his body.  Then I will kill you."

"Now is not the time for fear. That comes later."

"First, let me show you were we have made our home.  Then, I will break you."


He was very theatrical as well.  "Speak of the devil and he will appear."




- carnotaur3 - 07-25-2012

"Theatricality and deception are powerful agents to the uninitiated. But we are initiated, aren't we Bruce?"

I could sense Batman's terror here as he already knows how fucked he is.

"Do you... feel in charge?"

"So you think because you pay me, you have power over me?" (or something like that)

"The shadows betray you because they belong to me."




- Nooj - 07-25-2012

Love Bane.   He was just so fun.  I've been trying to impersonate his voice to myself all day.

Truly... the only sequence I found myself thrilled was that first fight between him and Batman.  It was appropriately brutal, but more importantly, I loved the context.  Honestly, Batman's primary ability in Nolan's trilogy was using his fists to pound crime into submission.

In TDK, that MO is made useless by the fact that it has no effect on the Joker because he thrives upon it.

In TDKR, that MO is completely outmatched by that of Bane's.  To see Batman scream in frustration trying to do the only thing he seems to know how to do was exciting.  Because honestly, watching Batman simply pound criminals with his fists was never exciting for me in Nolan's take on the character.  It was great to see him absolutely helpless.

If I go see the movie again, it'll be for that sequence.




- greg clark - 07-25-2012

My attempts so far have been most successful if you try to imitate Darth Vader by way of Sean Connery.




- freeman - 07-25-2012

It's definitely Sean Connery meets somebody with very vocal and proper diction.




- hellresident - 07-25-2012

I don't remember who else may have said this, but he or she best described Bane's accent: he sounds like a homicidal professor from Oxford University.




- laurenortega - 07-25-2012

Him and Hathaway Catwoman are easily the most delightful characters in the entire movie.




- freeman - 07-25-2012

I loved hot Levvitt sold his reaction to being called a hot head. It's just a small little look he has in the hospital where he can't quite believe such a stereotypical thing is being said.




- jhp1608 - 07-25-2012

Went to see this in IMAX last night. I can't remember coming out of a film buzzing as hard as this: probably the walk out of the cinema after watching "Natural Born Killers" onto streets covered with pristine snow lit hellish orange by the streetlights.

It wasn't a masterpiece, but damn if it didn't cap the Batman story Nolan wanted to tell pretty bloody effectively. Kinetic, skillfully manipulative and immersive.

I've still got a lot of thoughts roiling through my head about the film, and haven't yet been able to order them coherently, but one thing that surprises me about the criticisms - not all of which I disagree with - is the argument that Bane was emasculated by the Talia reveal. I just didn't get that at all.

In many ways it gave me a much more rounded sense of his motivation, why he would be driven, and imbued his actions with a degree of pathos that was both unexpected and dramatic. Miranda Tate being Talia and working from the inside also retrospectively explained how Bane knew of Batman's true identity and the location of the Applied Sciences vault without having to demand too great a leap of imagination. The call backs and ties into the first film through Talia, the League and Bruce's imprisonment and escape really worked for me, and made Begins a much better film after the fact.

What I also particularly liked is that I never felt that the turns taken by the plot or characters felt artificial or cliched - even the Rocky-esque comeback or the Robin reveal. From the moment that Selina robs Bruce in front of his eyes, through Alfred quitting, Bane being the one to reveal the lie behind Harvey Dent and Gordon going a little bit Stansfield, I thought Nolan et al made good decisions in sending the story (or sometimes just incidental moments) along paths marginally to the left or right of predictable.

I agree with those who complain about some of the comic book logic being jarring at times, and I did once or twice silently mouth a "WTF" as the passage of time seemed too compressed. Also, and this seems to be an editing choice I notice a lot in modern films, some scenes didn't really feel long enough to breathe. Some of the emotional investment wasn't as substantial as it could have been which affected the pay off at times.

Overall though, a really good way to finish off. As I left the cinema, I felt excited in a way I hadn't since I was a kid. I really wanted to be John Blake.




- jmacq1 - 07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Love Bane.   He was just so fun.  I've been trying to impersonate his voice to myself all day.

Truly... the only sequence I found myself thrilled was that first fight between him and Batman.  It was appropriately brutal, but more importantly, I loved the context.  Honestly, Batman's primary ability in Nolan's trilogy was using his fists to pound crime into submission.

In TDK, that MO is made useless by the fact that it has no effect on the Joker because he thrives upon it.

In TDKR, that MO is completely outmatched by that of Bane's.  To see Batman scream in frustration trying to do the only thing he seems to know how to do was exciting.  Because honestly, watching Batman simply pound criminals with his fists was never exciting for me in Nolan's take on the character.  It was great to see him absolutely helpless.

If I go see the movie again, it'll be for that sequence.

Yeah, I definitely dug that first fight with Bane.  Though I didn't mind the second fight, either, in a "want to cheer for the hero" sort of way and seeing Bane's increasing desperation as his mask got more damaged and the painkiller presumably started wearing off.  Was not thrilled that they turned Bane into Talia's lackey, but then again they never made completely clear how much of the plan was hers and how much was Bane's, so he might not be as "demoted" as it seems at first glance...plus he handled 90 percent of the execution like a champ.  Oddly in its' own way it's as though they crammed elements of "Vengeance of Bane, Knightfall, and Vengeance of Bane II" all into one movie, where Bane's character is concerned, and then at the last moment sprinkled a dash of the "villain decay" the character suffered since his introduction at the very end with his unceremonious demise.  I dunno if Nolan really intended to get that "meta" with the character, but as a fan it almost seemed like he did.

I know it's probably sacreligious to say this, but I think I enjoyed Bane more than the Joker.




- andrew merriweather - 07-25-2012

I love Hardy's Bane, but Ledger's Joker is one for the ages. There's nothing in RISES that matches the electricity he brings every time he shows up in TDK.




- Felix - 07-25-2012

Maybe Nolan should shoot an After Creidits Scene showing an Arkham Cell left open?




- navidson - 07-25-2012

It took me out of the film every time they not mentioned the Joker, but what are you going to do?




- chipdouglas - 07-25-2012

Both fights were terrific and to me it's why I personally liked Bane as the best villain in the trilogy. Batman is so used to just kicking everyone's ass so having that character that can not just match him physically but overpower him it's no wonder why they chose him as the main baddie. Also If you look at Tom Hardy's career it was like he was born to play this role. He obviously bulked up but the camera angles  that Nolan uses certainly make him even more menacing. Also the fight scenes you really felt the physicality of it all, you really felt the hits that Batman was taking. If you are a fan of Batman and wanted to see Bane done right I don't think you could have asked for more. Yeah the way he goes out is kind of lame but necessary in seeing the film to the finish. I liked how it all connected to the league of shadows and the death of Ra 's al Guhl's character in the first film.




- mikei - 07-25-2012

One scene that doesn't get much attention is the "bad guys escaping the stock exchange on mo-peds" scene. I know Micah (or perhaps someone else)  already tore into the logic of:

1) There is a break in at the stock exchange, perpetrated by someone working for Dagget

2) Trades are manipulated to benefit Dagget

3) No one questions or invalidates the trades made during the break in.

But I think the escape by mo-ped thing needs to be addressed as well.




- mikei - 07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipDouglas View Post

Both fights were terrific and to me it's why I personally liked Bane as the best villain in the trilogy. Batman is so used to just kicking everyone's ass so having that character that can not just match him physically but overpower him it's no wonder why they chose him as the main baddie.

Batman had a pretty tough time with his very first villain as well.




- andrew merriweather - 07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeI View Post

One scene that doesn't get much attention is the "bad guys escaping the stock exchange on mo-peds" scene. I know Micah (or perhaps someone else)  already tore into the logic of:

1) There is a break in at the stock exchange, perpetrated by someone working for Dagget

2) Trades are manipulated to benefit Dagget

3) No one questions or invalidates the trades made during the break in.

But I think the escape by mo-ped thing needs to be addressed as well.

That logic chain makes the completely unfounded leap that everyone knows Bane is working for Daggett. Nobody knows except Bane, Daggett and Bruce. They make a point of saying that the break-in will be investigated and fraud charges brought, but until then the trades stand.

Why does the escape by moped "need to be addressed", exactly? They're a group who live in the sewers, having easily disposable yet light and fast transport kind of makes perfect sense.




- mikei - 07-25-2012

A[quote name="Andrew Merriweather" url="/community/t/144220/the-dark-knight-rises-post-release-thread/850#post_3363107"]
That logic chain makes the completely unfounded leap that everyone knows Bane is working for Daggett. Nobody knows except Bane, Daggett and Bruce. They make a point of saying that the break-in will be investigated and fraud charges brought, but until then the trades stand.

Why does the escape by moped "need to be addressed", exactly? They're a group who live in the sewers, having easily disposable yet light and fast transport kind of makes perfect sense.
[/quote]

I threw the bit about dagget in there as bait. It doesn't matter at all. Someone broke in and tampered with trading. Every trade would be invalidated.

And the mo-ped thing was just funny. Very early 90s. Slap some day glow rims on there and we're back in batman forever.


- MichaelM - 07-25-2012

Were they actually mopeds, or motorcycles? I thought for sure they were motocross-style motorcycles.




- andrew merriweather - 07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeI View Post


I threw the bit about dagget in there as bait. It doesn't matter at all. Someone broke in and tampered with trading. Every trade would be invalidated.

Damn this big overblown superhero movie for not having its fictional stock exchange conform to the laws of reality!

Seriously. There's an attack on the stock market, and a few hours later Bruce Wayne makes a number of trades, authorised by his fingerprints, to move stock. On the one hand, suspicious as fuck. On the other hand, crazy recluse panic-gambles with his finances in the wake of an assault on the city's financial bedrock. These nitpicks are really, really silly.




- carnotaur3 - 07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post

Damn this big overblown superhero movie for not having its fictional stock exchange conform to the laws of reality!

Seriously. There's an attack on the stock market, and a few hours later Bruce Wayne makes a number of trades, authorised by his fingerprints, to move stock. On the one hand, suspicious as fuck. On the other hand, crazy recluse panic-gambles with his finances in the wake of an assault on the city's financial bedrock. These nitpicks are really, really silly.


I don't know shit about the stock exchange so I guess it worked for me.




- harleyquinn22 - 07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navidson View Post

It took me out of the film every time they not mentioned the Joker, but what are you going to do?

As I stated before, why is everyone so certain that The Joker is even still in Gotham?  Arkham was a lost cause at the end of Begins, along with the rest of The Narrows, and isn't ever mentioned again.  The Joker is probably in a prison out of state, something that happens ALL THE TIME to criminals.  You don't end up in a prison down the street from where you committed the crime, most of the time.  A legit lunatic isn't going to end up in a standard prison like Blackgate, the place we see in this film.  He's not in the city limits.  Deal with it, guys.




- Richard Dickson - 07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post

Damn this big overblown superhero movie for not having its fictional stock exchange conform to the laws of reality!

Seriously. There's an attack on the stock market, and a few hours later Bruce Wayne makes a number of trades, authorised by his fingerprints, to move stock. On the one hand, suspicious as fuck. On the other hand, crazy recluse panic-gambles with his finances in the wake of an assault on the city's financial bedrock. These nitpicks are really, really silly.

The shut down the NYSE on 9/11 and it wasn't even touched.  You think that exchange would stay open and trading continue after someone broke in and shot up the place?  That's my beef with it, not encrypted trades or the logic of Wayne making them.  The market wouldn't even be open.




- andrew merriweather - 07-25-2012

Good God, this is such a stupid thing to get hung up on. Maybe they retrofitted the hack so that the trades were recorded as being made just minutes before the assault. WHO THE FUCK CARES. This is like complaining that the science on Ra's al Ghul's giant vaporizer doesn't add up.




- anyawatchin angel - 07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhp1608 View Post

Went to see this in IMAX last night. I can't remember coming out of a film buzzing as hard as this: probably the walk out of the cinema after watching "Natural Born Killers" onto streets covered with pristine snow lit hellish orange by the streetlights.

.

I went yesterday and I just came out bored.  I loved the plane escape but it was downhill from there.  The leaps in logic, that I'm sure were talked about already, were just too much to overcome.

Gordon always carried the note?  The stock exchange with Bruce going bankrupt & repoed in a day was laughable.  The delay of the bomb, I assume to make Bruce suffer, was just odd.

I think Christopher Nolan went to the Sorkin school of stupid(Newsroom) for this script.

Get different villians in the reboot and don't start with an origin story.




- Richard Dickson - 07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post

Good God, this is such a stupid thing to get hung up on. Maybe they retrofitted the hack so that the trades were recorded as being made just minutes before the assault. WHO THE FUCK CARES. This is like complaining that the science on Ra's al Ghul's giant vaporizer doesn't add up.

It's not a stupid thing to get hung up on, because the entire plot of getting Miranda on the board of Wayne's company hinges on him being bankrupt.  It's a huge plot element set in motion by a lazy contrivance.




- MichaelM - 07-25-2012

Isn't she already on the board at that time?




- andrew merriweather - 07-25-2012

You're applying real-world logic of when and how and why a stock exchange might close to a fictional city in a heightened comic book adaptation. You're asking for a "I've ordered ten thousand pointy ears from China and ten thousand helmets from Australia" type explanation of how this thing unfolds. There's no betrayal of internal logic in how Bruce gets bankrupted - the film lays it out for you just fine. It doesn't jibe with what you expect in a real-world setting, but that's on you, not the film.




- Richard Dickson - 07-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

Isn't she already on the board at that time?

You're right, but it IS what convinces him to show her the reactor.