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THE DARK KNIGHT RISES Post-release thread..... - Printable Version

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- art decade - 08-30-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by stelios View Post

TDKR is the worst movie of the year.

Well someone just made Mirror Mirror's day.




- carnotaur3 - 08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post

Quote:

Well someone just made Mirror Mirror's day.


Nothing makes Mirror Mirror's day until it's the fairest of them all.




- freeman - 08-30-2012

Ohhhhhhh you think cynicism is your ally....




- MichaelM - 08-30-2012

nooj's insolence is almost enough to get me to break my self-imposed Facebook exile and harry him to no end there.

Almost.




- carnotaur3 - 08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

nooj's insolence is almost enough to get me to break my self-imposed Facebook exile and harry him to no end there.

Almost.


The War has begun.




- parker - 08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

It would be if not for the Total Recall remake!

(kidding aside... TDKR is hardly the worst... it's just one of my bigger, but interesting, disappointments of the summer)

1. Total Recall
2. Prometheus

3. Snow White and the Huntsman
4. The Dark Knight Rises




- Nooj - 08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

nooj's insolence is almost enough to get me to break my self-imposed Facebook exile and harry him to no end there.

Almost.

ALL TOO EASY!




- laurenortega - 08-30-2012

From this day forth I declare this Nooj to be an OUTLAW!




- carnotaur3 - 08-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

ALL TOO EASY!


Whaaa?

::Millennium Falcon swoops in::




- cylon baby - 08-30-2012

Glad to see mcnooj82 has assumed the throne vacated by Chud's Paul McCartney!




- Nooj - 08-31-2012

Oh, I could never replace Macca.

EDIT:  You know when you have one of those ideas you think is pretty good only to realize it wasn't?  Why did I make this video?




- Felix - 08-31-2012

Looking good.

Meow.




- MichaelM - 08-31-2012

nooj, I hope the last thing you see are huge metallic testicles* descending on your face as two incredibly racist robots stand nearby providing color commentary.**

*One colored orange, the other teal.

**For those new to our show, 1) nooj gets the reference and 2) he knows I ain't in the least bit serious.




- cylon baby - 08-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Oh, I could never replace Macca.

EDIT:  You know when you have one of those ideas you think is pretty good only to realize it wasn't?  Why did I make this video?

Ha watching that clip made we realize how much Nolan was "quoting" Burton's Batman in that sequence.




- carnotaur3 - 08-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Ha watching that clip made we realize how much Nolan was "quoting" Burton's Batman in that sequence.


You bring up an interesting point though. Nolan has many instances in Knight and Rises where he's directly lifting images and scenes from the Burton movies only to subvert them by allowing the scenes to be the complete opposite of intentions. Sort of reminds me of Kubrick who did similar things with his adaptation of The Shining. He used many things from the book but completely changed them, like the family road bug in the book is yellow but in the movie is red. There's some others, I just can't think of them.




- Nooj - 08-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Ha watching that clip made we realize how much Nolan was "quoting" Burton's Batman in that sequence.

Interesting, because I was just thinking that a few minutes ago while I was driving.




- stelios - 08-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Ha watching that clip made we realize how much Nolan was "quoting" Burton's Batman in that sequence.

So what you're saying is that besides making the worst movie of the decade Nolan is also a habitual plagiarist.




- Nooj - 08-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

So what you're saying is that besides making the worst movie of the decade Nolan is also a habitual plagiarist.

He only made INCEPTION as the first stage of his eventual takeover of DiCaprio's identity!




- doc phibes - 08-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

the worst movie of the decade

It wasn't enough that this thread made Alfred cry?  NOW look what you've done.




- MichaelM - 08-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

He only made INCEPTION as the first stage of his eventual takeover of DiCaprio's identity!

Curse your sudden but inevitable poisoning of all things Nolan!




- Nooj - 08-31-2012

Memento wasn't even completely backwards!

Way to half-ass it, Nolan!




- SAIRUS - 08-31-2012

AAfter some time, TDKR is a worthy addition to the trilogy, maybe the weakest, but that's not by much.

Looking at Bruce's journey, he comes back to Gotham for as long as it takes to show the city it doesn't belong to the criminals and the corrupt. Using the dramatic symbol of the Batman, he hopes to shake the people out of apathy. When TDK roles around, he and Gordon create hope from a lie, by making sure things go as "part of the plan." The thing is here, this lie eats them. The thing about this, they underestimate their own citizens. The citizens are starting to show compassion by letting the criminals live, and the criminals are accepting their crimes.

The thing is, and Gordon admonishes Blake, that should they risk the outbreak? Thing is, Gotham does stand up for itself, and thus Bruce accomplished what he wanted to do. What an amazing character arc.


- stelios - 09-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAIRUS View Post

After some time, TDKR is a worthy addition to the trilogy, maybe the weakest, but that's not by much.

I still think TDKR was better than Begins or at least equal to it. Now, the first part of Begins was probably the high point of the trilogy but Bruce faking his death and running away with Selina is just like catnip to my geeky heart.




- Nooj - 09-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAIRUS View Post

The thing about this, they underestimate their own citizens. The citizens are starting to show compassion by letting the criminals live, and the criminals are accepting their crimes.

That goes back to one of my issues with TDK.  They underestimate Gotham at the end of it, but before that we see Batman seemingly confident that the ferries will not blow each other up.

Also, maybe it comes down to the casting... but the douche who 'let the criminals live' came off more like he didn't have the balls to kill in cold blood as opposed to realizing that he should show compassion.

Really, TDK was won by cowardice and the Galactic President.  And then Batman/Gordon done fucked it all up.




- carnotaur3 - 09-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

That goes back to one of my issues with TDK.  They underestimate Gotham at the end of it, but before that we see Batman seemingly confident that the ferries will not blow each other up.

Also, maybe it comes down to the casting... but the douche who 'let the criminals live' came off more like he didn't have the balls to kill in cold blood as opposed to realizing that he should show compassion.

Really, TDK was won by cowardice and the Galactic President.  And then Batman/Gordon done fucked it all up.


But don't you remember how everyone in the theater all thought they did Gotham a good deed? It's easy to look back now, hindsight being 20/20, and see that they were both operating on the selfish need to get their way out of the situation. It made sense at the time, "Joker couldn't win, God Damn it!" But now it's easy to see that Joker at least got something he wanted out of it. He made Gordon and Batman damaged goods. It allowed a bit of corruption into the hero. It seems so small of a lie, but it's how the lie balloons up.




- MichaelM - 09-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Also, maybe it comes down to the casting... but the douche who 'let the criminals live' came off more like he didn't have the balls to kill in cold blood as opposed to realizing that he should show compassion.

I might have been reading too much into it, but that scene came off to me less about Douche Canoe Business guy not having the the balls and more him realizing what an awful thing he's been so gung-ho to do. It plays into the film's theme of consequences; Douche Canoe realized he'd have to live with himself and knowing it was HIM who pulled the trigger and killed hundreds of people.

Assuming he would have lived. I always figured the Joker's plan was to let the trigger-pulling ferry go...until they almost reached the other side, and then blew it himself.

ETA: Off to see this one more time in the theaters, this time in LIEMAX.




- carnotaur3 - 09-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

ETA: Off to see this one more time in the theaters, this time in LIEMAX.

I have never been to a liemax. I feel sorry for you.




- MichaelM - 09-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post

I have never been to a liemax. I feel sorry for you.

It's the only IMAX we have in town. There's a true IMAX at a nearby museum, but they don't show commercial films. Nearest one that does is 2+ hours away, and I didn't feel like making a road trip this weekend.




- carnotaur3 - 09-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

It's the only IMAX we have in town. There's a true IMAX at a nearby museum, but they don't show commercial films. Nearest one that does is 2+ hours away, and I didn't feel like making a road trip this weekend.


Yeah, I count myself extraordinarily lucky that I live to a real imax just 20 or so minutes away. The nearest one after that is in another state. We had a flood couple of years back that took all of OpryMills mall which is where it's located. And the mall opened back up in March, so we lucked out on TDKR.




- Nooj - 09-01-2012

A[quote name="MichaelM" url="/community/t/144220/the-dark-knight-rises-post-release-thread/2500#post_3381977"]
I might have been reading too much into it, but that scene came off to me less about Douche Canoe Business guy not having the the balls and more him realizing what an awful thing he's been so gung-ho to do. It plays into the film's theme of consequences; Douche Canoe realized he'd have to live with himself and knowing it was HIM who pulled the trigger and killed hundreds of people.

Assuming he would have lived. I always figured the Joker's plan was to let the trigger-pulling ferry go...until they almost reached the other side, and then blew it himself.
[/quote]

I have no doubt that's what the intention was. It's just really down to the casting and that guy's masterful performance as an entitled douche. Hahahaha. To me, he looked like he was thinking, "Shit! What will the Browns down the street think of me if I do this???"

The guy just looked like a dick.

Also, I'm sure Joker would've blown them all up too.


- schwartz - 09-01-2012

What's sort of interesting about Rises is that it stands in contrast to the rest of Nolan's filmography in that the heroes reject the big lie.  Although turning Batman into a sacrificial messiah figure is new lie of sorts, albeit a bit closer to the truth than keeping Harvey in that role.

I'm also completely convinced that Mathew Modine's character lives, and is just playing possum after the tumbler strafes his group and we see him laying there with no blood or bullet holes in sight.  He learned from Gordon that there is no problem a cop cannot solve by faking his own death.




- brandhay - 09-01-2012

My prevailing thought after both viewings: I can't believe I've seen Matthew Modine in IMAX.




- carnotaur3 - 09-01-2012

He's come along way since Bye Bye Love.




- MichaelM - 09-01-2012

So third time viewing today, and last before home video release. Thoughts - and some are just reinforcements/repeats of what's already been said:

- Michael Caine just knocks it out of the park here. He's really our entry into this world; despite that, I think his absence completely works here. He sells us on Bruce dying in the graveyard scene.

- Hathaway was fucking perfect. Selina Kyle was damn near brilliantly realized here, from costume to writing to acting. Her sexuality is there but muted - hey, it's Nolan - but it's not absent.

- Hardy is NOT getting enough love. He does amazing work here with voice and gesture. He's an avid believer and scary as fuck because of that; there's no reasoning or talking to or redirecting him. In some ways, he's more of an absolute monster than the Joker. His delivery of "I am the League of Shadowss!" produces chills and a certainty that he will not be stopped.

- Christian Bale also does stellar work here, despite a somewhat muddled or messy script. While other characters have definite arcs, this is Bruce's movie and journey. What I found really moving in TDKR is Bruce's love for Gotham; I also am beginning to think that in some ways, Bruce himself was mistaken about who/what he loved. Rachel was the object of his hopes for a post-Batman life, but Gotham is really his first and greatest love. And I don't know why, but I absolutely love his line delivery and pronunciation when he confronts Selina in the East Wing near the beginning of the film.

- I had not a single problem buying that Bruce had been in physical and emotional stasis for eight years. The movie both sells it and spells it out; after failing Rachel, and Dent, and accepting the burden of the lie to save Dent's reputation, Bruce had nowhere to go. Batman had become a symbol of the very kind of violence he had endeavored to stop. His heart had been shattered by Rachel being consumed by his enemy's plans - an enemy that he likely knew arose because of his very actions. And he couldn't let go of any of it....and began wishing for something awful to happen again, something he could leap into, no longer fearing death, no longer wanting an actual life. He longed for the need for the Batman to come around again to save him.

- Re: political meanings or messages. I came away from this viewing feeling convinced that, frankly, Nolan didn't have any for the film; every event was used to forward Bruce's story; to bring his journey from leaving Princeton to becoming Batman to reaching middle age to an end. The stuff about the rich and the poor, the echoes of Occupy Wall Street (which began after the film was written and in the planning stages) all went to feed the plot of Bruce being utterly broken and remade. I also think, as has been said here, that Nolan did his biggest stepping away from "realism" here because his focus was on Bruce's story, and he cared either far less or not at all about reproducing the crime drama feel of TDK.

- Dovetailing on that: people upthread groused about how dumb or complex Bane's plan was. One, I think it's heavily implied that it's not Bane's plan and two, I think Bane doesn't give a shit about anything but the absolute destruction and death of Bruce Wayne. Yes, he loved Talia and yes, he was out to punish Gotham. But ALL of Bane's actions and plans were about breaking Bruce's soul, about grounding every bit of good Batman had achieved to dust or less, and then taking away Bruce's life. Talia is the one, I'd argue, that put punishing Gotham in front of breaking Batman. Both Talia and Bane wanted the same two goals, but had reversed priorities.

- Other than the fights with Bane, Nolan still seems really uninterested in clearly showing us Batman fighting. The rooftop fight is very focused on Selina, and even when Batman saves Blake, we spend a lot of time on Blake with only peripheral views of Batman kicking ass. I really, really hope the next version of Batman gives more and better scenes of Batman being what he is: one of the best hand to hand fighters on the planet, and kicking all sorts of villain ass.

At this point, my take on the trilogy is that TDK still reigns supreme for its unbelievable combination of casting, story, deeper themes, cultural impact, and score. TDKR is a solid and near-great conclusion, with its biggest weakness (IMNSHO) is either a lack of or muddied take on any themes or ideas outside of Bruce's redemption and renewal. BEGINS I still love, and it's good....but I think TDKR is better.




- Nooj - 09-02-2012