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SKYFALL Post-Release - Printable Version

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- MrSaxon - 11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco Senior View Post

I love Albert Finney, but it's a shame they couldn't have convinced Sean Connery to come out of retirement to cameo as Kincade.

I'm glad this didn't happen. I actually agree with what Sam Mendes said about considering Connery for that role.

Quote:
Originally Said by Sam Mendes

There was a definite discussion about that — way, way early on. But I think that’s problematic. Because, to me, it becomes too … it would take you out of the movie. Connery is Bond and he’s not going to come back as another character. It’s like, he’s been there. So, it was a very brief flirtation with that thought, but it was never going to happen, because I thought it would distract.



- Spook - 11-10-2012

I'm still processing it.  It's definitely the best looking Bond movie, given that they decided to hire an Oscar-winning director of photography.  The Shanghai scenes were beautiful.

My one complaint, unfortunately, is that I think Strike Back does the "talk in ear and guide" thing better than this movie.  For some reason, all I could think of was that.  In ear communication doesn't feel very Bond to me.

Overall, it was great.  I'm glad that Bond is being given a surrogate family.  These loner types don't get much dramatic mileage unless they have a surrogate family.




- MrSaxon - 11-10-2012

I kind of love the fact that you just referenced Strike Back in this thread, Spook.

Philip Winchester for the next Bond!




- slim - 11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post

I don't find it to be successful as a BOND film, but I do find it incredibly successful as a BOND ORIGIN film.  On that level, it's great and I'd highly recommend it to anyone.

This here is my main problem with SKYFALL. Six years and three movies into Craig's run and we're still doing "Bond Begins". If something like SKYFALL had come on the heels of CASINO ROYALE, I'd be a lot happier with it-- instead I'm just more irritated by what a waste of goddamn time QUANTUM OF SOLACE is.




- Spook - 11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post

I kind of love the fact that you just referenced Strike Back in this thread, Spook.

Philip Winchester for the next Bond!

Strike Back is God's gift to us all.




- sebastian ob - 11-10-2012

You can totally predict when the backlash of a good movie starts on these boards. Right around page 7. It's like clockwork.




- The Dark Shape - 11-10-2012

A[quote name="MrSaxon" url="/community/t/145354/skyfall-post-release/300#post_3420180"]
I'm glad this didn't happen. I actually agree with what Sam Mendes said about considering Connery for that role.
[/quote]

Disagree, because the role is so clearly written for Connery. Craig's first line upon seeing Kincade: "Good God, are you still alive?". "Are you ready for this?" "I've been ready for this since before you were born, son."

The character is distracting as is because he's so clearly supposed to be Sean Connery. At least go all the way and make it thrilling.


- draco senior - 11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post


Disagree, because the role is so clearly written for Connery. Craig's first line upon seeing Kincade: "Good God, are you still alive?". "Are you ready for this?" "I've been ready for this since before you were born, son."
The character is distracting as is because he's so clearly supposed to be Sean Connery. At least go all the way and make it thrilling.

Don't forget "Welcome to Scotland".  Why not have an actual Scot deliver that one?

Given the direction of the all-out Skyfall scenes, I don't think Connery would've really been all that distracting.




- laurenortega - 11-10-2012

Connery's been happily retired for years now and probably was never going to do the movie. The fact that he's not Kincade shouldn't be distracting to anybody.

Also some of you guys are just super-fucking-weird about these movies.




- Judas Booth - 11-10-2012

Having Connery in there would have been wrong.  The temptation would have been too strong to include 'I was doing this before you were born' and 'the old ways are better' jokes.

Which they did anyways.




- The Dark Shape - 11-10-2012

ASort of my point. If you're gonna run with that sort of gag, commit to it.


- laurenortega - 11-10-2012

They weren't going to get Connery.




- The Dark Shape - 11-10-2012

AAnd yet the character is written to be Connery at every turn. If you're not going to get Connery, change the character.


- slim - 11-10-2012

The fact that Kincaid was supposed to be Connery is apparently so obvious that it didn't even occur to me while I was watching the movie.




- laurenortega - 11-10-2012

He's gruff and old and says shit like "I was born ready!" SO IT HAS TO BE CONNERY ACCORDING TO BOND CODE!




- sebastian ob - 11-10-2012

Yeah, it didn't occur to me at all either.




- slim - 11-10-2012

My thoughts went: "Hey, it's Albert Finney!" and "He sure doesn't sound very Scottish." Not: "Why the hell didn't they get Connery for this?"

Holy Christ, I'm glad they didn't try to stick Connery in there. I was talking about how the damned Goldfinger DB5 took me out of the movie...




- sebastian ob - 11-10-2012

It might have been for the fact that Albert Finney, even at his youngest and most handsome, is just about the last person I picture as James Bond.




- stelios - 11-10-2012

I have to agree with Lauren. There's some weird weirdness going on. How the hell was Kincaid supposed to be Connery? Other than him being old?




- The Dark Shape - 11-10-2012

A[quote name="LaurenOrtega" url="/community/t/145354/skyfall-post-release/300#post_3420226"]He's gruff and old and says shit like "I was born ready!" SO IT HAS TO BE CONNERY ACCORDING TO BOND CODE!
[/quote]

You're right -- the fact that when I saw the movie I was constantly distracted by, "That's clearly written for Sean Connery," followed by reading an interview with Mendes where he admits the character was written for Sean Connery, means that I am in fact wrong that it's clearly supposed to be Sean Connery.


- avian - 11-10-2012

And now, to not-bury Caesar...

The action is great. Good mix of Bond spectacle (the villain THROWS A SUBWAY TRAIN AT BOND) and action you're not used to from a Bond movie. And I count three action setpieces. The opening, the race to save M (tense subway sequence to foot chase to shoot-out), and the final battle.

Naomie Harris is great as Moneypenny, awesome chemistry with Craig even if the character as written is a little mystifying. I'm cool with the new dynamic being them as fuckbuddies, or ex-lovers who are keeping it in their pants now that they're co-workers. Could've been fleshed out more, but that's not on the actress. I think she's technically the "Bond girl" here, so I wonder why Severin got the nod when she was more of a one-off. I hope there isn't some icky racial subtext there; there was no subterfuge in Halle Berry being the Bond Girl instead of Rosamund Pike back with Die Another Day, but then, Halle Berry's literally considered to be the most attractive African-American woman in the world.

Silva's a great villain. I don't mind his motivation being to kill M, just the harebrained way he goes about it in the courthouse sequence. But I love how old-school he is with the flamboyant mannerisms, the PRIVATE ISLAND, the physical deformity, while the obsession with M is new and interesting. I mean, what was the deal with the guy from QoS? He loved the environment but not really? Yawn.

Daniel Craig as Bond. Always great.

Ben Whislaw as Q. Okay, I guess. A little annoyed with the dismissal of the exploding pens, since that makes him just another guy chattering in Bond's earpiece (as I said, we've got four of those now). So now his character is just a walking app store. Like, c'mon guy, would it kill you to put Bond's radio in a tie clip so the bad guys not finding it isn't down to them being totally incompetent? But, good actor, interesting new dynamic, I'm game.

Severin. Looked great in a backless dress, even if the script pretty much gave her the middle finger. I would not be surprised to hear that she had a bigger part before the actress ran over Barbara Broccoli's dog or something.

Ralph Fiennes as M. Cool, cool, cool. I wonder if there'll be a long game of him turning out to be a bad guy. Probably never happen, but it would be so cool to have one or two movies of Bond taking orders from Voldemort and then realizing, as was rumored for this movie, that this is a story where the Bond villain has won.




- Nooj - 11-10-2012

This movie gave me a few Harry Potter-ish flashes.

First, it had Voldemort telling Narcissa Malfoy to shut the fuck up and let M speak.

Then all of Skyfall Manor had that kind of semi-gothic imagery (along with the tombstone of Bond's parents) that recalled images from some of the prettier Potter movies.

Then there's the title SKYFALL itself.  It's brought up early in the film like something super mysterious and then it just turns out to be something relatively mundane.

It ends up feeling like JAMES BOND and the HALF-BLOOD PRINCE.

"Oh, that's it?  Alright..."




- slim - 11-10-2012

Apropos of nothing just discussed: My wife is evidently in love with Bardem's performance as Silva, because she hasn't stopped talking about it since we saw the movie. It's kinda weirding me out...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega View Post

1. I don't like Severine's death, but then again I find the tradition of "one Bond girl dies" to be wince inducing. Though at least she's wasted less than Gemma Arterton in Quantum of Solace.

I also wanted to go back to Lauren's point on this. I'm not a man of overly-delicate sensibilities on this stuff-- particularly since the brutal death of the secondary Bond Girl is pretty routine in this series-- but Severine's exit struck me as especially harsh. (Having recently watched it, though, Drax setting his dogs on his female helicopter pilot in the otherwise-lighthearted MOONRAKER is pretty disturbing too).

I thought Severine's murder alone warranted a more personal and equally brutal comeuppance for Silva, rather than the knife in the back that he got. As much as I crap on QOS, at least Bond dispensed with Dominic Greene in an fittingly cruel manner.




- Nooj - 11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim View Post
As much as I crap on QOS, at least Bond dispensed with Dominic Greene in an fittingly cruel manner.

Oh yeah... that WAS pretty sweet.  Thanks for reminding me of that.




- draco senior - 11-10-2012

Marlohe was so good that I was hoping her character would break the "Bond meets girl, shags her and she's killed off" pattern.  Bit of a waste.

And yeah, I was expecting something more like how Greene was taken out in Solace, given how Silva killed Séverine.




- Rene (Mr.Eko) - 11-10-2012

The first thing I thought of when I saw Albert Finney as Kincaide was that he looks EXACTLY like my Father In Law. I turned to my wife and said "He looks like your Dad!" and she agreed.

Sleeping on it, I still love the film, but I do agree it needed more action set pieces. That's why I like Casino Royale better. However, I didn't mind it being a "small" film and giving us more information on Bond in one film than in the entire franchise.




- laurenortega - 11-10-2012

It's not so much that I needed Severine revenged or anything.

It's just like I'm getting more than a little fatigued with this aspect of the Bond movies. I don't need every single female character absolutely protected, but it's been since License to Kill that both women made it out of the movie without being killed. And it feels weird.

That's like the ONLY real issue I had in the movie. Since all the complaints about scale and "the villain plot was too confusing!" just feels like whining.




- Nooj - 11-10-2012

This movie really had a general tone of disinterest towards collateral damage.

Bond sees Patrice enter the building and doesn't even blink as he sees the guy kill the guards.  The movie doesn't care when Severin gets killed.

The movie only really gives a shit when Silva has Bond's car blown up.  Complete with "NOW IT'S PERSONAL" music.

I mean, I know most action movies have a cavalier attitude towards collateral damage, but they usually put up SOME kind of front.  SKYFALL felt like it was actively trying to show that it didn't care.  Maybe to go with the way we're supposed to see M's 'professionalism?'  I dunno.  It was weird.




- draco senior - 11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega View Post

It's not so much that I needed Severine revenged or anything.

It's just like I'm getting more than a little fatigued with this aspect of the Bond movies. I don't need every single female character absolutely protected, but it's been since License to Kill that both women made it out of the movie without being killed. And it feels weird.

That's like the ONLY real issue I had in the movie. Since all the complaints about scale and "the villain plot was too confusing!" just feels like whining.

What makes it especially irritating is that Severine was a really promising character played by one of the best BG actresses since Eva Green.




- laurenortega - 11-10-2012

I liked her. I don't know if I liked her more than Gemma Arterton* but yeah.

Now if they did anything to dear sweet Naomie Harris? Revenge would be the only option.

*I still have a bone to pick with QOS for that.

Quote:
I mean, I know most action movies have a cavalier attitude towards collateral damage, but they usually put up SOME kind of front.  SKYFALL felt like it was actively trying to show that it didn't care.  Maybe to go with the way we're supposed to see M's 'professionalism?'  I dunno.  It was weird.

The movies for a while have been really having a tricky time being able to balance the fact that Bond kills a whole lot of people and is supposed to be a generally ruthless sonofabitch. While also trying to keep him from coming across as an utter sociopath. It oftentimes can make things feel weird even in the best films of the series.




- Nooj - 11-10-2012

Sigh... Naomie Harris...

What about Olga Kurylenzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...




- laurenortega - 11-10-2012

Olga Kurylenko made more of an impression on me when she was mute in Centurion.




- slim - 11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega View Post

It's not so much that I needed Severine revenged or anything.

It's just like I'm getting more than a little fatigued with this aspect of the Bond movies. I don't need every single female character absolutely protected, but it's been since License to Kill that both women made it out of the movie without being killed. And it feels weird.

That's like the ONLY real issue I had in the movie. Since all the complaints about scale and "the villain plot was too confusing!" just feels like whining.

No, I agree with you, Lauren-- and not just from a protection/vengeance standpoint. It's just that a standard trope of the Bond series hits harder when it's presented in a certain way. If it happens on screen-- as in SKYFALL or MOONRAKER-- then I want it addressed, or redressed, on screen somehow.

In CR, for instance, even though Solange is tortured and killed off screen, Bond's basic indifference to the fact is commented on: "But that's not your problem, is it, Bond?"

If this pattern is going to continue-- as I suspect it will, because the death of the secondary Bond Girl is too easy a plot device to abandon-- I think future entries could use more of the CR or QOS treatment. It's preferable to just forgetting, in the rush of the plot, that the death of a (relative) innocent like Severine happened at all.




- laurenortega - 11-10-2012

Oh yeah! I can get behind that.




- doc phibes - 11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim View Post
I thought Severine's murder alone warranted a more personal and equally brutal comeuppance for Silva, rather than the knife in the back that he got. As much as I crap on QOS, at least Bond dispensed with Dominic Greene in an fittingly cruel manner.

Even Bardem's performace seemed to refect this.  Amidst the agony, he was offended too.  "A knife in the back?!?  After all this, a knife in the back?!?"