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SKYFALL Post-Release - Printable Version

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- jpl - 02-17-2013

If Adele is too busy, I guess Paul F. Tompkins is available to perform at the Oscars.




- hammerhead - 02-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by neil spurn View Post
Holy shit, this should go in the "things you just realized about movies" thread, but Peter Yeats, director of Bullitt, eventually directed Krull and Night of the Comet.  That's awesome!

That's Peter Yates, and it was YEAR of the Comet, the rare-wine caper movie with Penelope Ann Miller.




- chaz - 02-23-2013

  I just picked up the DVD and its still a magnificent movie. Seeing how well its shot, I get why John Glenn is mocked so much in the Bond thread. While FYEO is the only Bond movie he directed that I like, my problems* with the other three aren't because of his direction. The look of Skyfall proves he was just adequate at best.

  If Adele doesn't win the Oscar for best song, then the Oscars are more clueless than the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame.

*Octopussy: The tone is too silly and Moore is too old for the part

A View to a Kill: Moore is REALLY too old for the part. Also has the worst Bond girl ever! Yes worst than Richards.

The Living Daylights: I don't like Dalton's take on the character. Craig shows you can play Bond as a real person and still make him a cool a witty dude. Weak villains didn't help either.

License to Kill: I really don't like how Dalton plays Bond and its boring movie.




- mr. stockslivevan - 02-23-2013

AGlen was weak, but my pick for worst director is Spottiswoode, having made the most generic Bond film ever made that feels more like an American dumbass action flick you'd see Steven Seagal star in.


- dr harford - 02-23-2013

AI think Tomorrow Never Dies is competently made that has a handful of exhilarating moments and in general is a well shot and attractive looking film. On a scene by scene basis it is very well directed. Look at Bond with the death of Kaufman.


- mr. stockslivevan - 02-23-2013

AI find it rather ugly looking. Too desaturated and dislike the use of smoke on sets, which also look unremarkable especially the stealth ship interior. Kauffman scene is the best it has but even then it doesn't really do much for me. I'll give the film one good remark: it's better than The World is Not Enough just because the characters are portrayed as being competent.


- art decade - 02-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by smugbug View Post

Gawd, I love this movie.  It's even better the second viewing.  Got the bluray/DVD/digi for my boyfriend as a Valentines Day gift, but it's really for me.  Heh. I got him a bottle of his favorite cognac, he can have that anyways.

This movie is well scripted/directed/edited and yes, the look of it all.  So good.


I thought Skyfall was entertaining but forgettable the first viewing. The 2nd, I fucking loved it. For a 2 1/2 hour flick, it moves at an unusually fast clip. It's just a ridiculously engaging, smart, & handsome film.

So, in summary:

Casino Royale = Star Wars

Quantum Of Solace = Return Of The Jedi

Skyfall = The Empire Strikes Back




- Paul755 - 02-23-2013

Watched it with some friends again this evening. And maybe I'm just slow but Bond acts unsure, intentionally misses Sevrine and lets Silva kill her just to fool him right? It totally flew over my head the first two times I watched it.




- dr harford - 02-23-2013

A[quote name="Paul755" url="/community/t/145354/skyfall-post-release/1050#post_3473298"]Watched it with some friends again this evening. And maybe I'm just slow but Bond acts unsure, intentionally misses Sevrine and lets Silva kill her just to fool him right? It totally flew over my head the first two times I watched it.
[/quote]

I think he figured Silva was crazy and ws going to kill Bond next, and that was Bond's last possible instant to act.


- mr. stockslivevan - 02-23-2013

ABond wouldn't have been able to do the stunt he did until Silva fired his shot and become unarmed, it cost someone's life but that's how it is.


- doc phibes - 02-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

Glen was weak, but my pick for worst director is Spottiswoode, having made the most generic Bond film ever made that feels more like an American dumbass action flick you'd see Steven Seagal star in.

You'd think that editing Peckinpah's Straw Dogs and Pat Garrett & Billy The Kid might have taught him a bit about constructing great action scenes.  But, nope.




- mr. stockslivevan - 02-24-2013

A[quote name="Doc Phibes" url="/community/t/145354/skyfall-post-release/1080#post_3473336"]
You'd think that editing Peckinpah's Straw Dogs and Pat Garrett & Billy The Kid might have taught him a bit about constructing great action scenes.  But, nope.
[/quote]There's that but I also dislike Vic Armstrong's second unit work, that goes for his work in the following two films. I'm so glad he did not continue into the Craig films. Most of his stuff was either generic machine gun play or rehashes of sequences that were already done and better in previous films.


- avian - 02-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

Bond wouldn't have been able to do the stunt he did until Silva fired his shot and become unarmed, it cost someone's life but that's how it is.

I think the Editing Room covered this...

HENCHMEN take DANIEL OUTSIDE where BERENICE is tied to a statue thing.

BERENICE MARLOHE

Oh thank goodness, you’re alive. Now you can overpower everyone and save me, right?

DANIEL CRAIG

Not quite. These goons are just sliiiiightly too well armed. Maybe if they had one fewer bullet I could take them.

BERENICE MARLOHE

One? That’s all? But why would they have exactly one fewer…

(realizes)

…oh, you asshole.

JAVIER fires his GUN at BERENICE who presumably DIES but of course they can’t actually SHOW us because we are poor delicate fainting wisps of creatures who of our own free will just paid MONEY to see A JAMES BOND MOVIE FOR CHRISSAKE I THINK WE WERE AWARE SOMEONE MIGHT GET HURT.

DANIEL CRAIG

That’s better!

(defeats all bad guys)

Phew. It may look like I won without breaking a sweat, but trust me, if they’d had that one extra bullet, hoo boy!

The BRITISH ARMY arrive with ALL THE HELICOPTERS and everyone shares a HEROIC MOMENT OF TRIUMPH while trying not to look at the DEAD WOMAN they might have SAVED if they’d acted all of TEN SECONDS earlier.




- mr. stockslivevan - 02-24-2013

ANice try, but Bond didn't have the opportunity until the goon stuck a gun to his face (something you should never do, always keep your distance) which allowed him to grab it and start shooting when he had the element of surprise. Could he have done it right before Silva shot her? Probably, but tough shit.

Besides, I like the quick shot of the dropping of the glass.


- Nooj - 02-24-2013

AThe goon had a gun to Bond's head the whole time they were waiting for him to shoot.


- mr. stockslivevan - 02-24-2013

A[quote name="mcnooj82" url="/community/t/145354/skyfall-post-release/1080#post_3473410"]The goon had a gun to Bond's head the whole time they were waiting for him to shoot.[/quote]That was my point, he didn't until that moment.


- Nooj - 02-24-2013

I'm just saying that he had a wide window of opportunity in which he COULD'VE done something before Severine was shot.

But Bond (and the movie's) treatment of her is callous.




- mr. stockslivevan - 02-24-2013

AI'm sure he had his reasons, her death might have been what triggered Bond into doing the stunt the moment it happened, it's times like these I wish we could look into his head like the novels did. Same applies to him sneaking up to Patrice when the art collector gets shot.


- Nooj - 02-24-2013

Right.  The callousness I mention really goes through the whole movie.  Not blatantly as in Quantum (dumping Mathis in the dumpster), but in a much more casual way that the film doesn't feel the need to call out.

Poor Chinese security guard...

I mean... you could feel especially sorry for Severine considering Bond could've stalled a bit longer since he knew MI6 and its helicopters were on their way.  Hahahah




- mr. stockslivevan - 02-24-2013

ALesson: Never work for a Bond villain, otherwise villain kills you unless your name is Pussy or you play tarot cards.


- doc phibes - 02-24-2013

Where are these amazing films where Bond cares about everyone and is constantly jumping to the rescue of innocent bystanders?  I'd love to see them!




- chaz - 02-24-2013

Maybe Bond was trying to get everyone around him to think that he wasn't a threat. If he turned to shoot that one dude with a gun to his head, he would have been killed ASAP. Bond could have rationalized the situation by thinking he was acting in the greater good and Severine was expendable. A parallel to what M thought about him at the beginning. All of this makes Bond a bastard; something he has always been.




- bailey - 02-24-2013

I liked the way the film had no qualms about Bond being a callous anti-hero, and I also think the Severine scene played up the idea of Bond girl as ritual sacrifice; but, having said that, I think the discussion of whether or not Bond could have saved her is silly.  There's no indication he could have done what he did at an earlier moment*.  Or that he knew how close the helicopters were at that point, either.

* Not that there's a particular a indication he couldn't have done it, but these are things we're asked to take at face value in action movies all the time.  Such as the classic "why didn't he just shoot him when he had the chance?"




- mr. stockslivevan - 02-24-2013

A




- bailey - 02-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Phibes View Post

Where are these amazing films where Bond cares about everyone and is constantly jumping to the rescue of innocent bystanders?  I'd love to see them!

I think the difference is not that Bond was ever portrayed as a kindhearted hero who playfully tousles a kid's hair after he saves him from an oncoming bus.  But that this film makes sure that Bond's cool attitude is not merely a meaningless (and often cartoony) persona.  It's not about grounding him in "reality" either, as Casino Royale gets the credit for that.  For me it was more a symbolic thing, as I think Skyfall is very interested in the idea of Bond as sort of an existential ideal.

ETA- Maybe for some that subtext is always there, and Mendes is just making it obvious.  But I appreciated it if for no other reason than so many Bond movies in the past felt totally empty to me, and also because Deakins cinematography was such a beautiful complement to those themes (particularly in Shanghai.)




- brandhay - 02-24-2013

AThat entire scene I was distracted by the casting of Exxon Valdez Captain Joseph Hazelwood as the scene's main henchman.
[IMG ALT=""]http://www.chud.com/community/content/type/61/id/151455/width/200/height/400[/IMG]


- dr harford - 02-24-2013

A[quote name="mcnooj82" url="/community/t/145354/skyfall-post-release/1100#post_3473416"]I'm just saying that he had a wide window of opportunity in which he COULD'VE done something before Severine was shot.

But Bond (and the movie's) treatment of her is callous. 
[/quote]

Bond is not in the business of saving the innocent. His job is to complete the mission - whatever the costs.


- Nooj - 02-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post

Bond could have rationalized the situation by thinking he was acting in the greater good and Severine was expendable. A parallel to what M thought about him at the beginning. All of this makes Bond a bastard; something he has always been.

This is the most reasonable explanation to me.

For me, it's not that Bond is such a cold bastard.  Of course he is.  There have been other Bonds that have kinda dealt with this as an idea.  But SKYFALL really just plays it so casually.  I suppose I wouldn't think twice about it, but I think it stands out because Bond is so pissy about that treatment being directed towards him (and poor poor Ronson...) at the beginning of the movie.  It makes him come across as a punk that can dish it out but not take it!  Let's not forget how he should be well aware of the choice M has to make in order to get that agent list back.

And this is all during a movie that is in large part a celebration of the character as an institution of something great.

That was kinda one of my issues with the movie.  That it BRINGS UP KOMODO DRAGONS AND THEN DOESN'T MAKE THE MOST OF IT!!!!!

(actually, it's the fact that Bond is clearly sore about being dropped like that, but later in the movie it's so quickly brushed off with quick exposition of Silva's history.  That Bond himself seems to brush it off is fine... goes with the character.  But it's as if the movie brushes it aside too... AS IT DID THE KOMODO DRAGONS!!!)

So any 'issue' I have with the movie's cruel dispatching of Severine or Bond not giving a shit about collateral Chinese security is really about the way the film plays with this idea.  Not the logic behind whether or not he could've saved them.




- smugbug - 02-24-2013

And now Skyfall is an Oscar winning James Bond film.  Smile  (Although I wish it was a Roger Deakins Best Cinematography win instead of Best Editing)




- mr. stockslivevan - 02-25-2013

AAs happy as I am about Adele winning, it was sort of a given. I'm still pissed off Deakins lost, and to that fucking Pie CGI crap. When is he ever going to get his due? 24 if Mendes indeed returns?


- avian - 02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post


Bond is not in the business of saving the innocent. His job is to complete the mission - whatever the costs.

This thread is starting to worry me. It seems like everyone finds the Bond movies having the theme of "the ends justify the means" not only fine, but laudable and even superior to Bonds where the hero "saves kids from getting run over by buses." If that's the case, cool. In the next one, let's have Bond start waterboarding terrorists and overthrowing democratically elected governments. At least it'd be interesting.




- mr. stockslivevan - 02-25-2013

AAs Fleming once put it himself:
Ian Fleming Wrote:Bond is not a hero, nor is he depicted as being very likeable or admirable.…He’s not a bad man, but he is ruthless and self-indulgent. He enjoys the fight—but he also enjoys the prizes.



- dr harford - 02-25-2013

A[quote name="avian" url="/community/t/145354/skyfall-post-release/1100#post_3473662"]
This thread is starting to worry me. It seems like everyone finds the Bond movies having the theme of "the ends justify the means" not only fine, but laudable and even superior to Bonds where the hero "saves kids from getting run over by buses." If that's the case, cool. In the next one, let's have Bond start waterboarding terrorists and overthrowing democratically elected governments. At least it'd be interesting.
[/quote]

Bond as a character is single minded about his mission, dedicated to achieving his goals above all else, including, ultimately, his own well being. That is what makes 007 compelling, that he lives this solitary life characterized by devil may care decadence and moments of sudden, shocking violence.

Beyond what makes him compelling, it's the fact Bond is probably too clever to resort to water boarding that makes him cool.

Like Mr. Stocks points out though, I don't pretend to be under any illusions that Bond is a good guy. I have never said that's the case. He's a killer. Plain and simple.


- mr. stockslivevan - 02-25-2013

AYup, it's what makes him unique from all the Jean-Luc Picard and Batman types that have their own moral ethics/codes. Bond only has few of that and often ignores them when he gets caught up in the moment. For example, he often expresses that he doesn't like killing in cold blood, but he doesn't hesitate to murder out of pure vengeance (even both Bernard Lee and Judi Dench Ms have to remind Bond not to start a vendetta when they assign him in a few missions), such as in Dr. No where he kills Professor Dent for being involved in the murder of a fellow colleague of Bond's.


[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btjBvrly2aI[/VIDEO]


- smugbug - 02-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

As happy as I am about Adele winning, it was sort of a given. I'm still pissed off Deakins lost, and to that fucking Pie CGI crap. When is he ever going to get his due? 24 if Mendes indeed returns?

Deakins has been nominated HOW many times now?  Ten? Geezus.  And at least four of those ten (including Skyfall), he SHOULD HAVE WON.  Didn't he even have to battle himself in 2009 for both The Assassination of Jesse James and No Country for Old Men?  And he STILL lost to - There Will Be Blood; which I will never ever figure out why.

Did he DO something to members of the Academy?  Something mean or bad?  What does this man have to do to win?