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SKYFALL Post-Release - Printable Version

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- gabe t - 11-09-2012

You never plan to fail, you just fail to plan.




- MrSaxon - 11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe T View Post

Why not mix both worlds? Why not have him isolated with M, and he can give a timed speech before he's gunned down, before the satellite programmed fires a laser from outer space, incinerating M? I would be a terrible Bond villain.


You'd have to throw in a terrible pun before the laser hits. You know, a Mr. Freeze from Batman & Robin style pun.




- agracru - 11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe T View Post

I feel like you're talking shit about my laser fetish, agracru.

No!

...

...yes.




- shaun h - 11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian OB View Post

Peter Dinklage would be a great Bond villain.

OH, IMAGINE THE PUNS AND WITY ONE-LINERS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post

I don't see how anyone thinks the hacking in this movie was unrealistic. Stuxnet, anyone? That's exactly what Bardem pulled on MI6 with the explosion. And he works with the Chinese, a nation infamous for 'impossible' hacks. Cyber warfare isn't a 90s movie cliche, it's the the reality of the world we now live in.

We're waiting for the villain, Anonymous, who performs hellacious DOS attacks.

"MI6.com is down!"

"Get me 007."




- sharpel007 - 11-09-2012

Surprised to come to this thread to find so much nitpicking, as we are after all talking about James Bond, the longest of any franchise, and one that's has always evolved to suit the taste of the day, as seen through the Broccoli's. But most of all one that has many more compromised films then any other.

So let me say this is a very solid James Bond movie, and damn near close to greatness, but as some have pointed out has some minor flaws. But considering DAD came out only 10 years ago we should be a lot more thankful that Mendes mainly integrated the series norms very well, and that only a few brief moments smelled of Purvis and Wade.

As far as how I feel, being a lifelong Bond fan it is no From Russia With Love. That being said neither is Casino Royale, I feel that movie is far too overpraised around these parts, and is maybe only better by a smudge then Campbell's first Bond film. CR needs about 15 min of trims, and someone beside P&W writing the action, to be truly great. That being said I feel Quantum is too harshly judged, yes the editing nearly ruins the whole damn thing, but that opening car chase is on par with Skyfalls, and doesn't have the bad digital face swap either. Olga is a nice change up in Formula, and though Forester and Haggis get a bit too heavy handed with Eco theme, and dufous CIA man, its a far more complete package then even The Living Daylights.

So Skyfall.

Craig's bond, has always been very personal, and it was nice to see everyone send Dame Judi off not only with a good amount of screen time, but also for the most part a well written part (last act, stupidity not with standing)

I was ready to hate Q, but I like the age reversal from Desmond, and I like that he's not infallible.

I liked the inclusion of the DB5, heck I was alright even with it having machine guns, the ejector seat was bit too much, but it didn't hurt a whole lot.

I dont understand how anyone can have issues with Bardem as he was aces, the being caught was part of the plan is bit well worn, but when well executed such as it was here, I do not see issue with it.

The credits made me like Adeles song, and I thought they where pretty solid, but needed a bit more polish, and one less visual idea.

The second they cast Ralph Fiennnes and Naomi Harris I had no doubt who they where playing, so the ending did not surprise me, and I hope but the caliber they cast, both will be a bit more involved.




- dr harford - 11-09-2012

A[quote name="Don Swoosh" url="/community/t/145354/skyfall-post-release/200#post_3419749"]That was my only real problem with the film as well.  Especially after the court room sequence where Bond trusts her by tossing the gun over to her.  It just doesn't seem like she'd be one to go to the desk after that sequence.

Unless the producers are playing a long game with this version of Moneypenny.  I just get the impression that she'll get from behind that desk to help Bond in one of the next two pictures.  Just a gut feeling.
[/quote]

Bond clearly didn't want her in the field (all his hints), but that doesn't mean he doesn't want another person on his side in a firefight if she's standing right there. I think that some people wouldn't psychologically want a job where they might accidentally murder their coworkers. I had no problem believing Eve had had enough of that lifestyle by the end of the film. In interviews Harris said of Moneypenny that "she thought she was Bond's equal, but she's not."

She's a good asset but one that probably can do more good behind a desk, leaving murder and death to the men, like Bond, who live for it.


- dr harford - 11-09-2012

AI love Bond abandoning Ronson to die. So perfectly Bondian. He will look at him with perhaps a shade of sympathy and understanding, but also a degree of contempt, because he knows one day he could be in that position, and he can't bring himself to acknowledge Ronson's humanity even though Ronson is looking at him with open eyes. He has to dehumanize Ronson in order to abandon him like he does. There is no "sorry", or a promise they'll send help. Bond just leaves, knowing Ronson knows the score.


- sebastian ob - 11-09-2012

OK, serious question -- what makes FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE such an unassailable masterpiece that is leagues above modern fare like SKYFALL or CASINO ROYALE? I mean other than it being old and therefor a de-facto "classic"? I think that it's a good Bond movie and all, but it's got flaws, even taken in context of its time period. What is Tatiana even doing for instance? SPECTRE's plan is for her to seduce Bond so that....she can kill him? Get secrets from him? What? Either way, she sucks at it. And the movie meanders pointlessly from plot point to plot point when it gets to Istanbul and doesn't pick up to the admittedly great Red Grant Orient Express train fight. Connery seems engaged so that's good but all said and done it's a pale Hitchcock imitation on its best day. I feel like the love for it is more 60's Mad Men nostalgia than anything.




- dr harford - 11-09-2012

A[quote name="Gabe T" url="/community/t/145354/skyfall-post-release/200#post_3419845"]During the entire last half hour, I kept thinking, "God, if only James bond had an exploding pen..."

Also, if you guys wanting to see "something new" means a bad guy who CAN'T EVEN SHOOT AN OLD LADY, then have at it. I thought the movie was ok, but I think Duke made some great points on his own.
[/quote]

I wasn't sitting there thinking he couldn't shoot her, I was thinking how vile he was and how repulsed it made me feel to watch him put his hands on Judy Dench. In that moment , with his insane, genuine concern over the wound he basically inflicted on her, was the moment where I thought to myself that his madness was no longer entertaining, and I wanted Bond to end his sick existence.

I thought that scene was chilling.


- dr harford - 11-09-2012

A[quote name="Sebastian OB" url="/community/t/145354/skyfall-post-release/250#post_3419908"]OK, serious question -- what makes FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE such an unassailable masterpiece that is leagues above modern fare like SKYFALL or CASINO ROYALE? I mean other than it being old and therefor a de-facto "classic"? I think that it's a good Bond movie and all, but it's got flaws, even taken in context of its time period. What is Tatiana even doing for instance? SPECTRE's plan is for her to seduce Bond so that....she can kill him? Get secrets from him? What? Either way, she sucks at it. And the movie meanders pointlessly from plot point to plot point when it gets to Istanbul and doesn't pick up to the admittedly great Red Grant Orient Express train fight. Connery seems engaged so that's good but all said and done it's a pale Hitchcock imitation on its best day. I feel like the love for it is more 60's Mad Men nostalgia than anything. 
[/quote]

It's more clear in the book but her role is to set Bond, MI6 and England up for disgrace. They're going to kill them both and make it look like Bond was sex crazed and crazy.

You're right though that it's a flawed film, with a huge amount of unnecessary flab after what by all rights should have been the climax on the train with Red Grant. That boat chase, that helicopter battle, is just empty and kills my enjoyment every time I see it.


- sebastian ob - 11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post


It's more clear in the book but her role is to set Bond, MI6 and England up for disgrace.

Wish that was in the movie!

Again, I like FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE. For its time it is very good. But I don't see how you can get a film like SKYFALL and say to yourself, "Nice try Sam Mendes, but nowhere near the unbridled genius of Terence Young's masterpiece!"




- dr harford - 11-09-2012

A[quote name="Sebastian OB" url="/community/t/145354/skyfall-post-release/250#post_3419923"]
Wish that was in the movie!

Again, I like FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE. For its time it is very good. But I don't see how you can get a film like SKYFALL and say to yourself, "Nice try Sam Mendes, but nowhere near the unbridled genius of Terence Young's masterpiece!" 
[/quote]

I think FRWL remains a favorite for two reasons: the romantic, cold war travelogue atmosphere. The movie's climax, and finest sequence, is on the orient express after all. 2) it contains Connery's second best performance, and the Red Grant stuff is as good as nearly anything else from the series.

As a film, it's certainly imperfect.

In the book there is no SPECTRE: Russia's higher ups all have a meeting and decide that the best way to harm the west, to embarrass them but also not start a nuclear war, is to take out Britain's top agent, a man who has hurt Russian interests before and is somewhat high profile.

To not just kill Bond, but humiliate and disgrace him by implicating him in a sleazy murder suicide, with the sex tape they make with Tatiana as proof. The bodies would be discovered in Greece, where friendly communist elements and the Greek press could spin an embarrassing story for the whole world to see.

I like how this whole plot works in the book more than I do in the film.


- sebastian ob - 11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post


I think FRWL remains a favorite for two reasons: the romantic, cold war travelogue atmosphere. The movie's climax, and finest sequence, is on the orient express after all. 2) it contains Connery's second best performance, and the Red Grant stuff is as good as nearly anything else from the series.

Well said. I agree.




- MrSaxon - 11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post


I wasn't sitting there thinking he couldn't shoot her, I was thinking how vile he was and how repulsed it made me feel to watch him put his hands on Judy Dench. In that moment , with his insane, genuine concern over the wound he basically inflicted on her, was the moment where I thought to myself that his madness was no longer entertaining, and I wanted Bond to end his sick existence.
I thought that scene was chilling.

I think this was Bardem's greatest scene in the movie (and, let's be honest, all of his scenes were excellent). I can't remember the last time I felt as tense, whilst sitting in the theatre, as I did in the scene where Silva has his gun on M and is so filled with rage that he can barely even talk. It's such a contrast to his earlier scenes (with the exception of when Silva is in prison and both his mental and physical scars are revealed) where he was more of a comedic figure. It completely unnerved me.




- dr harford - 11-09-2012

A[quote name="MrSaxon" url="/community/t/145354/skyfall-post-release/250#post_3419932"]
I think this was Bardem's greatest scene in the movie (and, let's be honest, all of his scenes were excellent). I can't remember the last time I felt as tense, whilst sitting in the theatre, as I did in the scene where Silva has his gun on M and is so filled with rage that he can barely even talk. It's such a contrast to his earlier scenes (with the exception of when Silva is in prison and both his mental and physical scars are revealed) where he was more of a comedic figure. It completely unnerved me.
[/quote]

I very much agree, especially since that is when it finally began to sink in that Dench might actually not make it out of the film alive. I'd read the early rumors, and then the push back assuring fans she would not be assassinated, so in a way I'd never really believed she was in real danger till that moment. I was pretty stunned when she died. She went out well, and though I think I have to say after seven films that I don't think she was ever really "right" for M, she had a good death and one that Bond will clearly carry with him for the rest of his life.

The look on Bond's face at the end, and his final lines, they served to make me think woe unto the next person to cross Bond's path.


- MrSaxon - 11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post


I think I have to say after seven films that I don't think she was ever really "right" for M,

I think she was right for Craig's M. I wish we'd had another actor for Bronson's run so that she wasn't carrying the baggage of those movies with her, but I'm very glad that Judy Dench was the M of Skyfall.

I'm equally glad about who will be sitting in her seat going forth.




- dr harford - 11-09-2012

AOh yes, I'm ecstatic over Fiennes elevation to head of section. I felt like I was watching the dawn of a golden age at the end of this movie (Q excepted). I will have to see it again to have some clarity about how the Moneypenny reveal played out, but I love that she is (hopefully) now behind the desk and at M's side. And god it felt right to see Fiennes in that chair, and Bond treat him with respect.


- sebastian ob - 11-09-2012

I always liked Judi Dench as M and I felt that by having her be M all the way back to the Brosnan era made her death all the more impactful. There was this strange meta-baggage that I was bringing with me, even if it shouldn't have been there from a straight continuity standpoint. In my mind she was still the M that gives Bond that great dressing-down in GOLDENEYE.




- dr harford - 11-09-2012

AI respect the longevity of her tenure in the role, and that definitely gave her death more impact for me. Goldeneye was the first Bond I saw in theaters, so this was the end of an era for me as well. I expect that aspect of the film to grow on me with time, too. It's just that even here, of all places, she felt less steely and hard than she should have been with (some, not all of) her scenes. She was tough in Goldeneye, but since then has seemed too motherly. I have nothing against a female M, but she needs to be M, and not Bond's cranky grandmother.

Digression over.


- Nooj - 11-09-2012

The motherly M really suited the 'difficult son' aspect of Craig's Bond.

I was really impressed with the way the story played upon that motherly aspect (in clashing with her position), but I can't say I was at all emotionally affected by where her story went.  I don't know why.  It's all there.  But I didn't feel much there.

Perhaps it'll work better upon second watch.  Happening tonight!!!




- sebastian ob - 11-09-2012

I wasn't moved to tears about it or anything, I just felt that after 7 films it was a nice swan song. Fiennes is a great replacement.




- Nooj - 11-09-2012

Oh definitely.

She's been in the position long enough that the return of a white man to that position feels somehow refreshing!




- Felix - 11-09-2012

Surprised that they revealed "M"s real name here.




- Nooj - 11-09-2012

They did?  Must've missed that moment.  Likely during the hearing?




- Felix - 11-09-2012

Maybe i misheard, but...

Didn't Bond's Groundskeeper call her Emma?




- Nooj - 11-09-2012

Oh, I did hear that!

I just figured he was just calling her that as a placeholder or something.  Either that, he heard M and assumed something else.




- duke fleed - 11-09-2012

felix, I think so.




- dr harford - 11-09-2012

A[quote name="felix" url="/community/t/145354/skyfall-post-release/250#post_3419963"]Maybe i misheard, but...

[SPOILER=Warning: Spoiler!]

Didn't Bond's Groundskeeper call her Emma? 

[/SPOILER]
[/quote]

Em is short for Emma. Kincaid heard Bond call M "M", and misunderstood.


- agracru - 11-09-2012

I don't know if it impresses me or infuriates me that in six paragraphs, David Denby manages to say almost nothing about Skyfall and instead pine for Connery. I've said it before, I'll say it again: what a tweedy little bore of a man.




- slim - 11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post

Em is short for Emma. Kincaid heard Bond call M "M", and misunderstood.

Right-o... It put me in mind of the "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" books, though: where the Victorian era Ms were Moriarty and Mycroft Holmes, in the last installment of the League the modern day M is Emma Peele.

.....

Something hit me reading duke fleed's description of the villain plot as basically to kill M. I guess this makes SKYFALL the first Bond picture where he fails at his mission.




- dr harford - 11-09-2012

A[quote name="Slim" url="/community/t/145354/skyfall-post-release/250#post_3419972"]
Right-o... It put me in mind of the "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" books, though: where the Victorian era Ms were Moriarty and Mycroft Holmes, in the last installment of the League the modern day M is Emma Peele.

.....

Something hit me reading duke fleed's description of the villain plot as basically to kill M. I guess this makes SKYFALL the first Bond picture where he fails at his mission.
[/quote]

Love Moore's League books! 2009 also had Daniel Craig and (Roger) Moore show up to validate the code name theory in that universe

Ad you're right, Bond failed. Whoever he next sets his sights on is going to face a 007 with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove.


- tcd - 11-09-2012

I'm flabbergasted this movie is getting so much praise. I really wanted - and expected - to like it. I'm stunned by how much I didn't.

The villain was a pointless weirdo with infinite, unexplained resources who's "master plan" was retardation incarnate. It was needlessly convoluted and basically made no sense. I'd love for someone to outline it for me in detail.

And where was the action? There were exactly two action setpieces. The train sequence at the beginning (pretty cool) and the Bond manor sequence at the end (pretty lame). Everything else was abbreviated fist fights and run-of-the-mill shootouts.

There were definitely some nice moments (the Moneypenny reveal being the best) but, man, this movie was a drag. At least Die Another Day had some fun spectacle and a villain with a comprehensible plan.




- laurenortega - 11-09-2012

I guess if you don't count well-staged and choreographed fist-fights as action sequences the movie would be totally disappointing on an action standpoint. But since I do count things like that as action sequences I'm left puzzled by people saying this has a lack of action.




- slim - 11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post

Love Moore's League books! 2009 also had Daniel Craig and (Roger) Moore show up to validate the code name theory in that universe

Yeah, that's the one context in which that goofy code name idea actually makes some sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TCD View Post

I'm flabbergasted this movie is getting so much praise. I really wanted - and expected - to like it. I'm stunned by how much I didn't.

The villain was a pointless weirdo with infinite, unexplained resources who's "master plan" was retardation incarnate. It was needlessly convoluted and basically made no sense. I'd love for someone to outline it for me in detail.

I can understand if the movie isn't your cup of tea-- but finding fault with a Bond villain master plan because it's needlessly convoluted is weird to me. If it weren't baroque and nonsensical, it wouldn't be a Bond villain plot. Kinda goes with the territory.

That said, I agree with this particular gripe to a degree. I really hope from here on out we can dispense with the villain-gets-himself-caught-on-purpose trope in adventure movies. It's already pretty played out, and was my least favorite part of SKYFALL, plot-wise. I loved everything-- like the chase through the underground and the shoot-out at the hearing-- that it led to, though.




- Rene (Mr.Eko) - 11-09-2012

Caught a matinee showing with my wife, and we both loved it. I still say that Casino Royale has the more impressive action scenes, but I dug that we learned more about Bond in this film, than we have in the whole franchise, and how the film was supposed to be "Big", but ends up being fairly small, and I didn't mind that. Didn't mind the whole plot being just about Raoul Silva wanting revenge on M either. It's no huge master plan, and I honestly was expecting "Skyfall" to literally be something messed up that Silva had planned to devastate London.

Finding out "Skyfall" was the name of Bond's familial home was cool, and a nice nod to Ian Fleming's home, "Goldeneye".

I really didn't like them keeping the gun barrel sequence until the end. Really hoped the film would start out with it. Even with everything being set up at the end for more traditional Bond films, and it "making sense" to put it at the end, I'd still rather have seen the gun barrel sequence at the beginning.

Oh yeah, and nice fake outwith Severine being the main Bond girl, and having it really be M. I was expecting her to help Bond out, but then Raoul Silva caps her during the William Tell routine, and we never hear about her again. She may be the Bond girl with the shortest appearance time ever. Only about 3 scenes.

Still, I loved the film, and it was definitely much better than Quantum Of Solace.