The Trouble City Forums
GODZILLA 2014 Post Release Discussion - Printable Version

+- The Trouble City Forums (http://citizens.trouble.city)
+-- Forum: Specific Cinema (http://citizens.trouble.city/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Forum: Films in Release or On Video (http://citizens.trouble.city/forumdisplay.php?fid=78)
+--- Thread: GODZILLA 2014 Post Release Discussion (/showthread.php?tid=150689)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45


- agracru - 05-19-2014

Haha, it's okay man, I'm kidding - as usual.



Though I never kid around about World War Z. Or Pacific Rim.




- Nooj - 05-19-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post
 



What would make him more compelling? An arc? Snappy lines? Angst?



A movie that didn't just treat him as:


YOU CAN GO HOME!  ok

GO TO JAPAN!  ok



COME TO OUR OLD HOUSE!  ok



COME TO JANJIRA!  ok



COME TO WATANABE!  ok



COME TO HAWAII!  ok



COME TO SAN FRANSISCO!  ok



OK




- cccc - 05-19-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

A movie that didn't just treat him as:


YOU CAN GO HOME!  ok

GO TO JAPAN!  ok



COME TO OUR OLD HOUSE!  ok



COME TO JANJIRA!  ok



COME TO WATANABE!  ok



COME TO HAWAII!  ok



COME TO SAN FRANSISCO!  ok



OK



C'mon.  It wasn't that bad man.




- turingmachine75 - 05-19-2014

ANow, now, Nooj. He did ask to go to San Francisco.


- agracru - 05-19-2014

As a note: the reason I consider the monsters here "leads" is because they have agency. The entire movie revolves around the actions that they take, they have more nuanced characterization than their human counterparts, and they have agency. The humans don't have agency. They mostly just run around reacting to everything the monsters do. That's part of the film's main idea - that humans are helpless to the whims of nature - but it's true. The people here are just pawns, forget about the fact that they're given very simple, baseline characterization/personalities.



Maybe it's a problem for some that Godzilla has more of both in his limited screen time (which< think, still exceeds that of Olsen) than the humans do. For me, it worked just fine, because I still found the humans tolerable to be in company with, which sounds like faint praise but is meant as more than that.




- Nooj - 05-19-2014

tolerable



*




- Nooj - 05-19-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turingmachine75 View Post

Now, now, Nooj. He did ask to go to San Francisco.

My mistake!




- sebastian ob - 05-19-2014

I think GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY will be the movie for Nooj this year. Oh the wacky characters that will abound!




- cccc - 05-19-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

My mistake!


I mean did you even watch the fucking movie man!!!




- agracru - 05-19-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

tolerable



+17 other words you left out. LIAR!




- subotai - 05-19-2014

AI do wish Strathairn had asked John Sayles, for the love of God man, put aside your indie scripts and give me and my fellow actors a teaspoon of personality. But it didn't happen.

I did the like the bit where the Fortune 500 dickheads are working in the office tower while San Fran collapses around them, though.


- subotai - 05-19-2014

A[quote name="cccc" url="/community/t/150689/godzilla-2014-post-release-discussion/390#post_3718944"]I mean did you even watch the fucking movie man!!!
[/quote]

He did sleep through it the second time. Understandable.


- Nooj - 05-19-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian OB View Post
 

I think GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY will be the movie for Nooj this year. Oh the wacky characters that will abound!


If it turns out like Pacific Rim, I'm gonna be both crushed and ENERGIZED WITH HATE.




- Nooj - 05-19-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subotai View Post


He did sleep through it the second time. Understandable.

The 2nd time, I dozed off during Ford's adventures on the train.



OH YEAH!




GO ON THIS TRAIN!  ok




- turingmachine75 - 05-19-2014

AThat was the train he need to take to get home to 'Frisco!


- Nooj - 05-19-2014

So was he doing his duty or just trying to get back home?




- cccc - 05-19-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

So was he doing his duty or just trying to get back home?


Both.




- avian - 05-19-2014

Is there a single character in Pacific Rim who WOULDN'T make a more interesting lead than Ford Prefect?





Hannibal Chau's henchlady. What's her story? Could it be more interesting than not defusing a nuclear bomb? Maybe. Just maybe.




- Nooj - 05-19-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by cccc View Post
 

Both.


Such practicality!




- agracru - 05-19-2014

Honestly, Ford's story would have been better off had he been forcibly conscripted into going back out into the field to serve. I mean, yes, he's a good man who does good things because that's what he's driven to do, but he does promise his son that he'd be there in the morning...and then he's forced to break that promise to save Joe. Which is good drama, but I wish his decision to join up with the soldiers in Honolulu had come with a bit of drama itself. Having him roped into it against his better wishes, I think, would have been a little more compelling.



It's not like I don't see areas in this film where it could be improved, but I liked what I saw regardless.




- Nooj - 05-19-2014

Yes!  Yes!  This is exactly what I'm griping about all the time!



Dramatization!




- ryoken - 05-19-2014

Yeah, this is turning into Pacific Rim thread part deux.


We just saw a proper Godzilla film, made by a completely out of left field director, with a script that centered every set piece and action sequence in a grounded, human POV, and a basic plot that featured little to no plotholes, become an absolute hit on its release weekend worldwide.


After seeing absolute drecks like Star Trek ITD, Amazing Spidey 2, Bayformers and who know how many hacky, uncaring and unpolished crass movies we get this and people still complain and nitpick?


Fuck off.




- agracru - 05-19-2014

Right. It's not that I don't see what you're saying when you bring this gripe up, FYI, but a movie can work for me even when it misses good opportunities for drama.



Maybe there's a cut of the film where his decision to tag along with the soldiers is preceded by a dramatic moment where he wrestles with his desire to get home and his desire to do good, and in which he concludes that he can be a good father to his son by helping end the chaos in San Francisco. Or something like that. I wouldn't say that the film is sorely lacking in these sorts of human minutiae, but it would have been nice to see them injected into little areas like this. Wouldn't have been a big change, either.




- Nooj - 05-19-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
 

Yeah, this is turning into Pacific Rim thread part deux.


We just saw a proper Godzilla film, made by a completely out of left field director, with a script that centered every set piece and action sequence in a grounded, human POV, and a basic plot that featured little to no plotholes, become an absolute hit on its release weekend worldwide.


After seeing absolute drecks like Star Trek ITD, Amazing Spidey 2, Bayformers and who know how many hacky, uncaring and unpolished crass movies we get this and people still complain and nitpick?


Fuck off.




no way bro



Now, the movie being a financial success?  I'm cool with that for the reasons you mentioned.  A film that respects its source.  Out of left field director.  A definite aesthetic choice in its making.  Outside of the actual quality of the movie, those are choices that should be rewarded.



But I still find the film a disappointment as a whole.




- ryoken - 05-19-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by agracru View Post
 

Honestly, Ford's story would have been better off had he been forcibly conscripted into going back out into the field to serve. I mean, yes, he's a good man who does good things because that's what he's driven to do, but he does promise his son that he'd be there in the morning...and then he's forced to break that promise to save Joe. Which is good drama, but I wish his decision to join up with the soldiers in Honolulu had come with a bit of drama itself. Having him roped into it against his better wishes, I think, would have been a little more compelling.



Seriously? I think this movie's characters are by far the more logical and real humans beings  reacting to something unbelievable i've seen on a while onscreen.



Ford jumps at the chance of him being in the military in order to get back to the family he wants to see safe ASAP; when events take him farther away, he once again makes the same choice, while also showing that he knows his talents and training could be key; Ford reacts exactly how a trained soldier would react, specially when in knowledge that his choices also mean more chances of his loved ones surviving, even if he doesnt.


Ditto for his wife, choosing to send her child to safety knowing she may never seehim again, as her role as a medical profesional in a time of crisis is also key in the wake of this disaster.


The military commander trying his damn best to steer these creatures away from civilians, him knowing that using a nuclear options is absolutely a last resort, knowing and making clear to his men that the HALO jump is essentially a suicide mission.



I shudder to think what any of these characters would have been in a more traditional blockbuster movie.


Edwards and the script choose to develop the characters as reactive to Godzilla and the MUTOs effects and consequences, and its pretty much why the movie works beyond the typical blockbuster, because the human element is the focal point through which we see the spectacle, which is pretty much the opposite of what Bay, Webb and other directors seem to avoid/miss.




- Nooj - 05-19-2014

Logical and real often don't result in 'entertainment.'



A lot of the praise directed at the movie seems more in defiance of the boogeyman that is by-the-numbers Hollywood filmmaking.  It's a feeling I completely understand, but let's direct that hate at the formula, but not the actual craft that gave rise to the arbitrarily lazy use of such formulas.



It doesn't have to be one thing (traditional blockbuster idiocy) or the other (logic/real).



Your description of Ford's 'journey' sounds solid on paper.  In the movie itself, I think there's a reason it's being criticized for feeling so ineffectual (for some).




- art decade - 05-19-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

Logical and real often don't result in 'entertainment.'



nooj don't like no Schindler's List. Or Die Hard.




- agracru - 05-19-2014

My point is that none of that is dramatized particularly well. Even Olsen's moment with her son, which is certainly acted very well, just sort of happens, which is why I suspect there's a lot left on the cutting room floor for this one. Ford's decision to stay with the troops doesn't feel like much of a decision. (I also strongly disagree that Ford made the choice to get back to his family faster. If he wanted to go with the troops to get back to his family faster, he wouldn't keep on making more choices that put him into service and thus prolong his absence from his family.)



This is the problem I have with Ford: Joe tells him to keep his family safe, whatever it takes. So, great! We have his driving motivation for the entire film, and, yes, he could have gone off to help in his military capacity because he decides it's the best way to keep his family safe. But the film doesn't dramatize that particularly well. The stuff that he does is fine, his character is fine, but we're missing a little bit of meat to give that choice weight. Does he think that fighting Godzilla and the MUTOs is the best thing he can do to protect his family? Or is he doing this out of a sense of duty, and would he prefer to be at his family's side rather than in the field? There's no answer to that in the film.



None of this kept the movie from working for me, obviously, because I'm going to be the de facto "dude who defends this movie against criticism and holds it up as genuinely good for way longer than he should, regardless of how it impacts his enjoyment of cinema, period" person in this thread. But as much as I liked the movie, I think it has a few pockmarks here and there that keep it from inching into the top five best Godzilla films ever made.




- Nooj - 05-19-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post
 


nooj don't like no Schindler's List. Or Die Hard.


wah?




- sebastian ob - 05-19-2014

Maybe it's time to move on. I don't see any ground being gained here.




- Nooj - 05-19-2014

That's the idea.



I'm doing some post-groundgain shit here.  

It's genius.




- ryoken - 05-19-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by agracru View Post
 

My point is that none of that is dramatized particularly well. Even Olsen's moment with her son, which is certainly acted very well, just sort of happens, which is why I suspect there's a lot left on the cutting room floor for this one. Ford's decision to stay with the troops doesn't feel like much of a decision. (I also strongly disagree that Ford made the choice to get back to his family faster. If he wanted to go with the troops to get back to his family faster, he wouldn't keep on making more choices that put him into service and thus prolong his absence from his family.)



This is the problem I have with Ford: Joe tells him to keep his family safe, whatever it takes. So, great! We have his driving motivation for the entire film, and, yes, he could have gone off to help in his military capacity because he decides it's the best way to keep his family safe. But the film doesn't dramatize that particularly well. The stuff that he does is fine, his character is fine, but we're missing a little bit of meat to give that choice weight. Does he think that fighting Godzilla and the MUTOs is the best thing he can do to protect his family? Or is he doing this out of a sense of duty, and would he prefer to be at his family's side rather than in the field? There's no answer to that in the film.



None of this kept the movie from working for me, obviously, because I'm going to be the de facto "dude who defends this movie against criticism and holds it up as genuinely good for way longer than he should, regardless of how it impacts his enjoyment of cinema, period" person in this thread. But as much as I liked the movie, I think it has a few pockmarks here and there that keep it from inching into the top five best Godzilla films ever made.



I can see the point here, and yeah, the movie has it as one of it few blemishes, but i still think Edwards made the right choice to have the massive shadow and threat of the monsters even take away from some inner character development, because it sells the very idea of this event being of such magnitude, humanity is reduced to basics.


Yeah, a scene of Ford and his buddy on the train chatting about why each of them is there and how they deal with the events would add character exposition, but i think it would take away from the monsters and how they tower over humanity as a whole.




- turingmachine75 - 05-19-2014

AYou don't think it would have added to the movie?


- agracru - 05-19-2014

I think there's plenty of ground to be gained, myself, because even understanding and agreeing with the critiques made against the movie (some of them), I still think it works, and even better, it made over 90 mil on its opening weekend. Which is a HUGE deal. I'm happy for that if nothing else, but I'm glad I can rearrange my top ten best 'Zilla movies, too.




- Nooj - 05-19-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
 


Yeah, a scene of Ford and his buddy on the train chatting about why each of them is there and how they deal with the events would add character exposition, but i think it would take away from the monsters and how they tower over humanity as a whole.


Why is that the only way to add more substance to the movie?



Because that's not what I'm asking for.