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GODZILLA 2014 Post Release Discussion - Printable Version

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- cccc - 05-15-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledown1138 View Post
 

Oh no! You didn't love it! Be careful, your opinion will probably be branded as "foolish" by certain posters in this thread...



<img src=" src="http://files.chud.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" />


You did say that GINO was a better movie.  So, yeah, that's foolish.



Agreed on the main charterers.  If the screenplay stuck that part it's a masterpiece, because the visuals and craftsmanship is that strong.




- doubledown1138 - 05-15-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by cccc View Post
 

You did say that GINO was a better movie.  So, yeah, that's foolish.



Agreed on the main charterers.  If the screenplay stuck that part it's a masterpiece, because the visuals and craftsmanship is that strong.


I never said it was a better movie. I said it was more FUN. Which it is.




- cccc - 05-15-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by doubledown1138 View Post
 

I never said it was a better movie. I said it was more FUN. Which it is.


 It's your opinion and all yours.  I respect the ownership.




- bigmclargehuge - 05-15-2014

I think its important to respect doubledown1138's opinion. Last night I found out I enjoyed Star Trek into Darkness more than Wrath of Khan. Everyone goes against the grain in some fashion.



There was a time when these post-releases were essentially group-think bullshit, let's not go back to those times.




- cccc - 05-15-2014

Agreed and I apologize.  Hell, my ex-wife swears by Grease 2.  So glad I divorced her.




- agracru - 05-15-2014

Ugh. I mean, sure, Gino is "more fun" than Godzilla '14, but Edwards isn't going for fun, so you may as well critique his film for not being about Jewish nuns in post-war Poland. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Edwards is going for the primordial terror of the original film, which is most assuredly not fun. It's thrilling, it's moving, and it's scary, but it's not a rollercoaster ride. This isn't either. So while everyone is entitled to their opinion, I'm entitled to roll my eyes at opinions that I think are fundamentally misguided.




- Felix - 05-15-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Aside from the monster action in the end, I found this pretty middling.


Just checking. But how do the Kaiju designs here compare to the ones in Pacific Rim?




- agracru - 05-15-2014

They're a lot less baroque.


- bigmclargehuge - 05-15-2014

Well, they aren't all designed by Guy Davis, for one.




- doubledown1138 - 05-15-2014

Well, for what it's worth I found it very disappointing. And talking with my friends afterwards it seemed to split us down the middle. In fact I haven't experienced a film so divisive since Man of Steel.



I'll be genuinely interested to see the reaction from posters in here once the film opens.




- cccc - 05-15-2014

Same here.   I have no idea how the mainstream will react to it.  I know the theater I was at the audience ate it up and standing O afterwards, but it was a screening filled with Godzilla fans.




- agracru - 05-15-2014

I was tucked away in the press row at a packed preview screening, and a good chunk of the press were hot and cold on this. The general audience, however, surprised me: they got into it. When we got the first full shot of the big guy, everyone went apeshit; later, when he powers up his atomic breath, the theater exploded. If there's a bit of a wait to get to that stuff (and there is), the public seemed to be okay with it, because the payoff is so damn satisfying.



That said, I cannot imagine that this is going to do business above that of Pacific Rim, a movie that is calibrated much more like a standard Hollywood blockbuster in terms of the quantity of things happening. Godzilla is arguably better (at least in some ways), but it's also far slower and less "thrilling". It's a movie that makes things blow up but actually gives a shit about the things blowing up, and the consequences of said things blowing up. No one wants to think about that, so they'll just go see Spider-Man Poo instead, because that movie doesn't give a shit about anything!



Maybe if Americans cared about Aaron Taylor-Johnson - or if Bryan Cranston was the film's hero instead - we'd see more people flock to theaters this weekend, but I don't see it happening. Americans don't respond to kaiju fare all that well in the first place (that's much more of a culture-specific phenomenon), and if anybody remembers Emmerich's awful fuckfest of a movie, then I suspect that's going to work against Edwards' film in a big way. I hope I'm wrong, and that this is a hit, but even if not, Thomas Tull seems to just fund movies he wants to see get made, so I doubt he'll care, especially if this does well overseas (which it might, Japanese scorn toward Godzilla's girth be damned).




- cccc - 05-15-2014

It'll do better the PR just because it's a known IP.  You can bank on that.




- Felix - 05-15-2014

We'll see.




- agracru - 05-15-2014

I'll allow that there are good odds this does better than PR, but that's also not a very high goal to shoot for, either.



But we'll see. I mean, don't get me wrong, I want this to do huge business, but I'm not seeing it.




- cccc - 05-15-2014

I'll be in shock if it doesn't do 60M this weekend.  Great marketing and the critics (both Chicago newspapers here gave it 3.5 stars, even richard roeper gave it a B+) are behind it, and of course it's Godzilla.



Even the 1998 piece of crap did 44M.




- Felix - 05-15-2014

I want this to do well. But my gut tells me it'll underperform.




- carnotaur3 - 05-15-2014

ASurely the people who flock to Transformers would flock to this too.

It'll do fine.


- agracru - 05-15-2014

That discounts the fact that Godzilla is slow, and only really gets actiony at the end, which has been well-documented in reviews. Remember last year when we all said the exact same thing about Pacific Rim, and the Transformers crowd wound up not turning out for Pacific Rim? I imagine that's sort of what's going to happen here, too.




- cccc - 05-15-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by agracru View Post
 

That discounts the fact that Godzilla is slow, and only really gets actiony at the end, which has been well-documented in reviews. Remember last year when we all said the exact same thing about Pacific Rim, and the Transformers crowd wound up not turning out for Pacific Rim? I imagine that's sort of what's going to happen here, too.



Don't worry.  You'll be pleasantly surprised.  On movietickets.com it's close to 70% of all tickets sold.  There's nothing else new coming out and TASM 2 is on fumes.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2014/05/15/godzilla-set-to-destroy-weekend-box-office-according-to-social-data/




- bitches leave - 05-15-2014

AWell I'm as mainstream as they come and found this to be a very underwhelming experience. It should have been called Muto since the Muto gets 4 times the screentime as Godzilla. It's hard to root for a monster you barely get to know. The last battle in the dark felt very meh and frankly pretty unimaginative. the best part were the Muto at the bridge and the last dayscene with G. On par with Pacific Rim I'd say.


- cccc - 05-15-2014





Re-watch it and report back with a more favorable reaction.




- thrash gordon - 05-15-2014

I like a load of Godzilla films from different periods - from the more sombre ones (like the original or even the first Mothra) to the more schlocky ones like Destroy All Monsters or Vs. Biollante. Or the ace more recent ones like Vs Mothra/Ghidora/All Out Attack. They're quite varied but still feel like part of the same mythology.

This just felt like a typical Hollywood blockbuster disaster film, which happened to have Godzilla in the background. The focus is mostly on some guy trying to get back to his wife and son, and it even feels a bit 'Team America' in places with all the military parts. It's decent as a summer blockbuster, but just fails to hit any of the points I want to see in a Godzilla film. It feels like it occupies a very different world to one that might include Mothra, Gigan or King Ghidora. It's more like Monsters 2 (and I loved Monsters), and you could replace Godzilla with another giant monster without really affecting the film. I swear Godzilla is properly on screen for less than 3 minutes.

Every time it felt like I was about to see some monsters have a fight it just cuts away to something else far less interesting. Two hour pricktease. The nearest it really got to anything hoped was Godzilla's killmove on the Muto.

It's a shame as the first thirty minutes were pretty strong, but after the only fleshed out character is gone there's just very little pay off. I don't care about soldier guy or his wife and son, I'm not really given any reason to.




- subotai - 05-15-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Aside from the monster action in the end, I found this pretty middling.



When McNooj is right, he's right.



Maybe my expectations were a little too high, but man - the human element in this was anesthetizing.  I had no problem with the 'less is more' element to the monsters for the larger part of the film - in fact, I preferred it - but when they cut to Johnson or Olsen or, for the love of God, Strathairn or Watanabe, which they do often...Man alive.  Just brutal.  After Binoche checked out, it's like the remaining actors all asked Edwards what flavour performances he wanted for the rest of the film and he said "vanilla from each of you, thanks."  Even when the crane lands on top of Cranston Johnson stands there like he doesn't know whether to shit or go blind.



That said, it's cool to know Godzilla's a fan of the Godfather.




- cccc - 05-15-2014

Just got out of a sold out IMAX 3D!  HOLY CRAP!  IT RULED!!!!



I loved everything about this movie.  Edwards just kills it!  Kills it!




- MrTyres - 05-15-2014

I thought it was an excellent film with a a great ending that isn't fist pumping awesomeness. To answer someone's complaint above about the characters being anesthetizing: A couple people in my group complained about Cranston's early exit, but then someone said "The movie isn't called 'Doctor Professor'; it's called Godzilla."  Honestly, that is exactly how people should react if they just saw a giant radiation eating insect like creature after it destroys Las Vegas or San Francisco.



It was a battle that, unlike MoS, had consequences and scope and was easy to follow. Although, I have no idea how Godzilla sneaks up on the last Muto in the water.




- shaun h - 05-15-2014

AGood, not great.

I found it to basically be ID4's disposable character POV x Cloverfield + monster protagonist. The killing of Cranston was downright criminal (come on, say it 3x fast with me!). It suffers from the same thing Pacific Rim did with the monsters, in that daytime fights were declared an OUTLAAAAAAW (though these were shot better). Outside of the first time the muto spots Godzilla at the airport and stumbles back, the first use of flame, and the death blow he delivers the final one, I don't know that much stands out. And the main man, himself, needed a bit more screen time.

P.S. I'm happy to be the first person that Scientist Cranston pulls a Prometheus, stupidly pulling off his gas mask despite safe readings - but I'm sure it'll be excused.


- mikei - 05-15-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by cccc View Post
 


Don't worry.  You'll be pleasantly surprised.  On movietickets.com it's close to 70% of all tickets sold.  There's nothing else new coming out and TASM 2 is on fumes.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2014/05/15/godzilla-set-to-destroy-weekend-box-office-according-to-social-data/



If Godzilla beats Spider-man in the United States, I will eat a handful of Cheez-its. In a chagrined way.




- deanburger - 05-15-2014

I thought it was great, but Cranston is so good that the movie instantly suffers when he's not in it. I liked the slow burn though, Edwards knows how to striptease the audience. Everyone at my screening seemed to be very enthusiastic about it, the flaming breath got a huge cheer.




- subotai - 05-15-2014

I didn't mind Cranston's early exit, I minded that it and every other human moment after the initial meltdown in Japan had no emotional impact.  The soldier returning to his family after 14 months in the hurt locker? Zero.  The son losing his remaining parent? Zip.  The phone call home to his suddenly hysterical wife after being nearly being caught in the death zone? Nada.  



The film had a solid plot, and they did nail Godzilla himself (for which they deserve major props), but David Strathairn should've called his BFF John Sayles from Vancouver and told him he had a script which had many scenes in need of a major punch-up.  They've been friends for 30 years, I'm sure Sayles would've done it as a favour.  He could've done it from his couch on the Hudson or wherever he is.



And even worse, Richard T. Jones is packing on the pounds.



Again, that said, some of the fight scenes at the end were good.




- ryoken - 05-15-2014

Just came home from my showing, I'll try to keep spoilers to a minimum:



Overall, its a good, solid movie, and far better than any post GINO western approach should have any right to be.


I see it as a more grounded version of "Pacific Rim" with a sans POV/shake cam "Cloverfield", to be honest...its quite clear that Edwards kinda understood that any extended daylight or even nighttime kaiju action is doomed to eventually end up feeling like either computer Man in suit or CG anime, no matter how real or good the effects are, and he decided to focus the action and destruction on having a human perspective, which actually helps sell the film a lot while still being true to its roots; Hell, its pretty much a blockbuster take on the original, realistic Godzilla film and the early King of All Monsters style.


Now, some bullet points:



The Good:


-Godzilla: The design is brilliant in how it works and feels fresh, while still being instantly being classic Godzilla. Loved that he had some personality as well, specially how uninterested he is in humans; the army and buildings are pretty much obstacles in his way to fight his natural enemies, and unless he's being provoked or hindered, he doesnt even bother acknowledging their presence...like a God should.


-Godzilla being used sparingly: At this point in pop culture, EVERYONE in the planet knows who Godzilla is at some level, so I think it was wise of Edwards to make Godzilla and the MUTOS the huge shadows that always feel present and dwarf the connecting human drama/plot.


-The big, final showdown: Edwards pretty much lets the final sequence of the film finally leave the human grounded perspective and delivers Kaiju action for a few minutes, which works; it doesn't become tiresome or feel fake and its almost as if the battle between the monsters finally reaches a point were humans dont really matter in the grand scheme of things.


-The MUTOS: Loved that they actually had some in film explanation for their nature and behavior; their need for radioactivity in order to evolve and procreate, the severe size difference between the male and female, the nest and so on; loved even more that compared to Godzilla or even other earth insects, they still look extremely alien...hell, my theory is that the MUTOS are alien beings and that Godzilla is pretty much a natural earth born evolution that serves as their predator.


-No shakycam!: LOVED that  Edwards still kept things grounded and only used POV for the HALO jump sequence, which was amazing.


-The brutality of it all: Where Man of Steel dropped the ball, Godzilla was uncompromising...while never making the destruction porn feel fake or over the top; its pretty clear onscreen that hundreds of thousands died, even with evacuations and the military doing their best to keep the monsters contained/away, casualties are inevitable in the scale of the disaster onscreen.


-Zero sappyness or melodrama: No bullshit dog evades massive explosion or mom trying to save her kid/dad making his way back; the characters all around seem human yet smart enough, and take the decisions one would make in real life if something like this happened in real life (the Japan MUTO cocoon not being destroyed for the risk of radioactive fallout, Brody's wife evacuating her son but remaining because she's a doctor/nurse, Ford rejoining with the military the second its clear his bomb expertise is needed, the military commander deciding on retroffiting the nuke with older tech to avoid the emp's effects, the HALO jump as a way to enter the battle zone despite the MUTOs emp, and even making clear that there is no extraction whatsoever for those soldiers, and so on)


-Ken Watanabe: Loved him in his role, and while he's essentially Mr Exposition, he bring a lot of gravitas and natural awe of the situation to the role. Loved that he's the only one that refers to Godzilla as Gojira and his colleague refer to it as "A God", almost like they mocked the stupid naming sequence in the 1998 travesty.



The Bad:


-Bryan Cranston: He was fantastic as usual, but id would had been nicer to have him around more; he's essentially a bridge for the film's Japan opening...but an awesome and talented bridge.


-The EMP: After suffering massive casualties and damage because of it, the military should had learned their lesson earlier about it; still, at least they make clear that its not like they have any other choice.


-MUTO overload: I can tell that Edwards gave the MUTOS more screentime to make them the real threat villain in the film, but still, a little more Godzilla couldnt had hurt.


-The Ending: Felt a bit abrupt, and I almost expected the shot to reveal a surviving MUTO egg or something...nope, Godzilla just dives underwater and the thing end.



The Awesome:


-Godzilla pretty much saying screw it during the bridge scene: Its almost like he knew its a cliche to destroy the Golden Gate bridge in a massive sequence, so it was almost like he shrugged his shoulders and just passed through lt casually.


The MUTO Kills: Tail impalement against a building and flame breath. Classic Godzilla finishing moves,


-That fucking awesome title on the tv screen at the end: Loved that Edwards had the balls to actually have King of the Monster used in some way on the film.



Its essentially a disaster film with Godzilla and the MUTOS as the engines of destruction, while centering the focus of the action and spectacle on the humans caught in the chaos. Extremely solid and good, but not excellent.


It almost feels like Edwards knew going full kaiju or copying the original would make the film fail, so he played it safe while still making a solid, well done film that erases the 1998 atrocity from pop culture's hive mind, which is great.



Also amazing how the trailer for Transformers: Exctintion played right before the movie started, and how flat it was received; compared to Godzilla, all the action and destruction on that trailer felt like a bad videogame cutscene.




- cccc - 05-15-2014

One of my favorite subtle scenes was when Ford and Godzilla's eye's meet and the cloud of dust slowly covers Godzilla's face.  So damn cool.



I also love that all the action is almost always from a human point of view.  It's amazing how well shot this is.  Visually a work of art.  Also, I can't get over the scene when Ford Son wake's up from a nap to see Godzilla and a Muto fighting on his TV.  It looked actually how we all first saw and watching Godzilla as a kid.  That was so damn ballsy to show the fight like that.  Brilliant!




- ryoken - 05-15-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by cccc View Post
 

One of my favorite subtle scenes was when Ford and Godzilla's eye's meet and the cloud of dust slowly covers Godzilla's face.  So damn cool.



I also love that all the action is almost always from a human point of view.  It's amazing how well shot this is.  Visually a work of art.



Yeah, it pretty much destroy's Cloverfield HUD/POV in that regard.


Its almost like Edwards was showing that when you focus on making it look too real (Cloverfield) or Over the Top (Transformers), the whole concept of a Giant monster/robot* movie loses the audience. Edwards focused on the characters and then on the action around them.



*Pacific Rim gets a pass because it knew exactly that it was a giant robot cartoon brought to life, and balanced that in its action scenes, so its spirit/focus is on the right place,flaws and all.




- Nooj - 05-15-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by cccc View Post
 

One of my favorite subtle scenes was when Ford and Godzilla's eye's meet and the cloud of dust slowly covers Godzilla's face.  So damn cool.



GREAT shot.



It's a beautifully realized film, visually.




- MichaelM - 05-15-2014

This is the post-release thread. I'm gonna talk about spoiler shit here. You've been warned.



Just came home from a viewing. I loved it, but I agree that it's a solid good not great film. Despite having limited screen time, I feel like Big G was infused with personality and was awesomely rendered. This is so much better than '98's version that it's hard to even compare the two.



I also love the film's tone; it's not as dark as the trailers would leave you to believe but (I think) was a deft balance between serious disaster and danger and Big Adventurous Shit with huge monsters duking it out. I do think the story does a fine job giving us reasons to follow this one family around. Elder Brody should have lived, though; he was the most sharply drawn and acted character, and the film lost something when he died. That said, I didn't think the rest of the characters were awful, but we knew next to nothing about them and the film doesn't go out of its way (one or two brief scenes possibly excepted) to fill in any gaps.



However, the film does giant monster spectacle wonderfully, and the fact that Godzilla is an offscreen force for much of the film works to its advantage, I think. The entire final fight in San Francisco is amazingly well done, and Big G's ominously silent approach ending with a bone-rattling roar is FUCKING AWESOME.  Edwards absolutely makes you feel the awe, dread and mystery these critters should evoke.



And since comparisons are inevitable: I think this is a much, much better film than PACIFIC RIM. Not just because we get the critters in varying weather and light; I think it's because the characters don't get in the way of the story (which normally would be a weird thing to say about a movie). Yes, they're thinly drawn but everything in the film serves a lean, focused purpose.



One thing, however, that I think could (and perhaps should) have been changed: I'd been sort of assuming all along that the MUTOs were man-made. Dunno why, just something about their design made me speculate. And I thought that cold be a good theme to play with; the original film was a metaphor on nuclear power, and I thought this one might be about our tinkering with genetics and building life without thought to the consequences (as well as biological warfare). The MUTOS being wholly natural took some of the air out of the movie's theme (or its targeted theme).



Having said all THAT, one scene in particular made the entire film worth it to me: ATOMIC BREATH INTO THE MUTO'S MOUTH.



I wanted to fucking jump up and shout at that. So. Satisfying.



Bring on the next one, pronto!