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GODZILLA 2014 Post Release Discussion - Printable Version

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- chaz - 08-15-2015

 At the point Joe dies, Ford and him are equally the audience's surrogate. His quick exit doesn't hurt the emotional story of the movie because there is still Ford wanting to get back home to his family and after Hawaii offering his skills to help against the monsters.



  Godzilla 2014 is a great movie because it takes the material seriously and still delivers what one wants from a Godzilla movie. While this movie clearly wasn't as goofy and filled with painfully unfunny moments like the 98 Godzilla, it also didn't take itself too seriously like Jackson's King Kong.




- Nooj - 08-17-2015

Anoooooooo

wait, how did Jackson's King Kong take itself more seriously than Dullzilla??? (outside of taking a simple story and stretching it out to 3 hours)


- Reasor - 08-17-2015

ADe Laurentiis' 1976 remake of Kong avoids taking itself too seriously. Jackson's 2005 remake feels incomplete without Jack Black breaking the fourth wall and asking the audience if they appreciate the grand myth unfolding in front of them.


- Nooj - 08-17-2015

AJust having Jack Black as Denham already kinda has that effect. Hence, how seriously could Jackson be taking the movie?


- Codename - 08-17-2015

Yeah, I wouldn't really say King Kong takes itself more seriously than Godzilla does.  Jackson tries to go for that old school sense of adventure and wonder.  And while he doesn't necessarily succeed in that.  You can at least see him trying.  Especially scenes like Watts and Kong on the frozen river and stuff like that.



With the exception of 'Let them fight' and the actual final fight.  Godzilla is a VERY serious movie.



Pacific Rim is better than both.  YEAH I SAID IT!




- Nooj - 08-17-2015

Aohhhhh noooooo


- freeman - 08-17-2015

According to the Rotten Tomatoes the order of these movies is as follows...



King Kong.




Godzilla 2014.




Pacific Rim.
























Jurassic World.





I liked King Kong.  I need to revisit it.




- muzman - 08-17-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

So I listened to cranstons really really fun appearance on the nerdist podcast. There's a moment when hardwick laments how quickly he died in the movie, and Bryan is instantly like "yup. That character should not have died when he did. He was the heart and soul of the film. They should have allowed him to bond with his son for most of the run time, healing their relationship, and then he should have sacrificed his life later to save them instead of dying uselessly."


Without the context and voice to go with that to insist I take it seriously, this reads like either the most soulless studio note by some hack from business school who read the Cliff's Notes of 'Save The Cat' one time or the most subtly arch burn on tedious writing tropes from some lost episode of The Simpsons or Futurama.


Orrr the dad from Malcom in the Middle criticising some toy based drama in the house.




- MichaelM - 08-17-2015

I don't think Jackon's King Kong takes itself seriously (or more seriously than Edwards' Godzilla). I do think Jackson's convinced it's a lot more fun than that it actually is. For a movie about a lost island with dinosaurs and a giant gorilla, it's a fucking slog way too much. (Also: someone please stop Jackson from using that herky-jerky slomo. PLEASE.)




- chaz - 08-18-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

noooooooo

wait, how did Jackson's King Kong take itself more seriously than Dullzilla??? (outside of taking a simple story and stretching it out to 3 hours)

   That is the main reason I believe it takes itself too seriously. Also the first half of the movie gives the cast back stories that have nothing to do with dinosaurs and a giant ape. The characters in Godzilla are all reacting to the events of the movie; it doesn't waste 20 minutes explaining how Ford got into bomb disposal or why Elle became a nurse. The Kong vs the V Rexes tries too hard to impress and after awhile it gets boring. Just because you can do a bunch of crazy stuff with CGI, doesn't mean you have to. Kong's death scene didn't need to be that drawn out. Finally I watched Jackson's Kong once and I haven't had the urge to watch it again; I watched Godzilla again a couple of nights ago and its still one of my favorite Godzilla movies.




- ska oreo - 08-18-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Codename View Post
 

Yeah, I wouldn't really say King Kong takes itself more seriously than Godzilla does.  Jackson tries to go for that old school sense of adventure and wonder.  And while he doesn't necessarily succeed in that.  You can at least see him trying.  Especially scenes like Watts and Kong on the frozen river and stuff like that.



With the exception of 'Let them fight' and the actual final fight.  Godzilla is a VERY serious movie.



Pacific Rim is better than both.  YEAH I SAID IT!





- Nooj - 08-18-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
 

   That is the main reason I believe it takes itself too seriously. Also the first half of the movie gives the cast back stories that have nothing to do with dinosaurs and a giant ape. The characters in Godzilla are all reacting to the events of the movie; it doesn't waste 20 minutes explaining how Ford got into bomb disposal or why Elle became a nurse. The Kong vs the V Rexes tries too hard to impress and after awhile it gets boring. Just because you can do a bunch of crazy stuff with CGI, doesn't mean you have to. Kong's death scene didn't need to be that drawn out. Finally I watched Jackson's Kong once and I haven't had the urge to watch it again; I watched Godzilla again a couple of nights ago and its still one of my favorite Godzilla movies.



That's less Jackson taking itself too seriously and more that he lost the ability (or the forces that would require that ability) to whittle his material down.  If anything, it means that he's NOT taking it too seriously.  Because you'd think that if he did, he'd realize how overindulgent he is with all his films after the success with the Lord of the Rings.



He's not taking King Kong anymore seriously than he took stretching The Hobbit out into three films seriously.  Seriousness isn't even in the cards here.  This is just his default mode of directing/producting movies now.




- muzman - 08-18-2015

We appear to have hit some difference on the definition of something taking itself too seriously.  It only just occurred to me then, actually, that describing someone or something as 'taking itself too seriously' can indeed suggest primarily a lack of self awareness in a person or material.  I think that does fit the bill for King Kong.  Which also encompasses an inability to self edit (and no one left to make you do it in your inner circle).



So, yea, confusing though it is, I think you could say King Kong is a movie that sees itself as a modern version of grand old timey adventure, but takes itself far too seriously in being that.


Tonally it's quite variable though, which is perhaps part of the problem.  There's certainly moments where it's grim as fuck. Nightmarish megasavages are totally going to execute all of our happy crew one after another, and not in a fun 'spear under your arm and fall down' kind of way.  Later, pretty much everyone is killed by giant bugs for what seems like forever, etc etc.  Adventure!


I suspect the argument for that stuff would be "that's what you've got to do these days", because we're all jaded emotionless robots with beheading videos for screensavers or something like that.



It's interesting to contrast it with something like Raiders, which is not without horror, violence and questionable ethnic stereotypes, but manages to be more of a piece with itself.




- MichaelM - 08-18-2015

Also: Kong vs the V Rexes is fucking great.




- darkmite8 - 08-18-2015

APJ's problem is bloat. Trying to get the audience invested in EVERY character. Super detailed. Every aspect of the world brimming. You may not like what he fills his world-building with, but it's FULL. Spread too thin like butter over TOO MUCH BREAD.

Godzilla plays 3 card Monty with audience investments and then reveals how EMPTY it is in that regard. WHERE'S THE BUTTER?

The Monster moments in both Kong and Godzilla are great spectacle though. And the signature respective battles have some fist-pumping moments in them, partially due to execution and partially bc delayed gratification.

I like both flicks mostly with caveats.


- MichaelM - 08-18-2015

Yeah, bloat is THE problem with PJ's Kong. Far too much story detail and character moments that go nowhere and lead away from the main story, rather than reinforce it.



I still love Godzilla but, as I've written before, think it stumbles big time in killing of Elder Brody so early. The narrative remains disciplined and focused, but the story could've done more for the human emotional journey.




- splatoon - 08-18-2015

There are a couple of reasons I'd rate Godzilla ahead of Pacific Rim, but chief among them is the fact that Edwards smartly ends the movie with what we came to see: a big ass monster throwdown. Rim's best action scene is around the middle to 2/3's mark (it's been awhile), and what good will that managed to generate after endless scenes of "character building" (no quotes big enough) is dissipated by a limp finale. Godzilla had a lot of character and pacing dullness to get through, but at the end you got so see Godzilla fuckin' throw down. Del Toro must have forgot that this wasn't Hellboy and no one likes these cardboard nothing characters, because "we've got one thing left...SWORD" should have been the end to that movie, full stop.




- waaaaaaaalt - 08-18-2015

For some reason I kind of love the remake of King Kong. Much more than the Godzilla remake. I liked it quite a bit when I first saw it but repeat viewings really do hurt the movie. The human characters aren't that interesting aside of course from Cranston. Also the blu-ray is lit terribly so that last fight isn't quite the show stopper it should be.




- Nooj - 08-18-2015

hahhahaa, oh that bluray really fucked with the movie, didn't it?



I KNOW it was not that dark when I saw it in theaters.  That blu-ray transfer is ridiculous.  I'm surprised there hasn't been some recall or exchange program done yet.



Here is a shot from the movie I screencapped off of my iPad on the Cinemax app:






- mrbananagrabber - 08-18-2015

AJimminy, without the monster fight its practically a Warhol movie.


- carnotaur3 - 08-18-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

hahhahaa, oh that bluray really fucked with the movie, didn't it?



I KNOW it was not that dark when I saw it in theaters.  That blu-ray transfer is ridiculous.  I'm surprised there hasn't been some recall or exchange program done yet.



Here is a shot from the movie I screencapped off of my iPad on the Cinemax app:




That just can't be real. Is this a still from AVP: Requiem?




- Nooj - 08-18-2015

How could anyone ever tell?  Hehehehe




- ska oreo - 08-18-2015

That's really disappointing. Since, where I had a problem with how dark it got in Pacific Rim, I thought it suited Godzilla just fine.




- cylon baby - 08-18-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post
 

Yeah, bloat is THE problem with PJ's Kong. Far too much story detail and character moments that go nowhere and lead away from the main story, rather than reinforce it.






This is the key. PJ took the success of LOTR as the immersion into a complete new world. But King Kong takes place in our world, with the exceptions of Kong and Skull Island. Knowing the backstory of every character and how they deal with the Great Depression are irrelevant to the story of King Kong. Nice background to touch on, not to delve into for 30 minutes.



And that T-Rex/Kong fight is BALLS!




- Nooj - 08-18-2015

AI have a friend who has a big screen projector. He LOVES the movie, but he can't really watch it at any other time than at night. Even if he closed his blinds in the daytime, the light just makes the transfer hard to see the scenes at night.

And I know the theatrical release was nowhere near that dark. If it was, I would've made note of it, since the movie bored me so much. And it was in 3D!


- carnotaur3 - 08-18-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

I have a friend who has a big screen projector. He LOVES the movie, but he can't really watch it at any other time than at night. Even if he closed his blinds in the daytime, the light just makes the transfer hard to see the scenes at night.

And I know the theatrical release was nowhere near that dark. If it was, I would've made note of it, since the movie bored me so much. And it was in 3D!

SO BORING!




- darkmite8 - 08-18-2015

A[quote name="Cylon Baby" url="/community/t/150689/godzilla-2014-post-release-discussion/1400_50#post_3931442]

And that T-Rex/Kong fight is BALLS!
[/quote]
...TO THE WALLS!


- cccc - 08-18-2015


Quote:

Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post


...TO THE WALLS!

...MAN!




- MichaelM - 08-18-2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

I have a friend who has a big screen projector. He LOVES the movie, but he can't really watch it at any other time than at night. Even if he closed his blinds in the daytime, the light just makes the transfer hard to see the scenes at night.

And I know the theatrical release was nowhere near that dark. If it was, I would've made note of it, since the movie bored me so much. And it was in 3D!


My TV is in the basement, so I generally don't have this issue (and my lights are on a dimmer switch, and usually kept low when watching TV anyway)...but yeah, the disc is dark.




- cccc - 08-18-2015

I've heard the 3D Blu-Ray is brighter and closer to what you saw in the theater.




- Nooj - 08-18-2015

Oh ironies!!!




- turingmachine75 - 08-18-2015

AHave you checked your tint setting? The factory tint setting is always too high.


- fraid uh noman - 08-18-2015

AFactory settings are for chumps!


- Overlord - 08-18-2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post


In addition to storyline/character/plot problems parts of the film are simply horribly shot.  The final battle, in particular, is WAY too dark.  It's difficult to make out details.  This is the only Blu-Ray I can ever remember where I have ever had to pause and play with settings to try to improve visibility.  Too many of the key monster scenes take place in darkness.  There's a reason everyone remembers the final shot of Godzilla so well: despite having him battle for the prior 15 minutes, it's the only time we can actually see him clearly!





I posted that back


Quote:

Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
 


I knew it wasn't my imagination!



http://www.thepetitionsite.com/429/302/743/re-release-godzilla-2014-bluraydigital-hd/




Apparently the problem is the transfer, not the film itself.  I let my son rewatch the final battle again recently and I had to turn up the brightness, again, in an attempt to simply make the action on the screen visible.



I've been complaining about the transfer since the first time I saw the film.  Unacceptably bad.  Not my settings, not my imagination, it's the transfer.




- Nooj - 08-18-2015

It is absolutely the transfer.



No major film should require adjustment of the settings for basic watchability.



Now, Dullzilla wasn't a SONY release... but this does show that certain studio releases get messed with for home video:



http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=257809



I definitely noticed how dark the blu-ray for FURY was.  People are saying that the transfer for the digital download versions were not affected by this.