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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

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- carnotaur3 - 03-20-2016

I can't believe it's been 8 years since that film.




- agentsands77 - 03-20-2016

AIt would have been great if Mac was one of the guys wiped out in the Doomtown explosion.


- carnotaur3 - 03-20-2016

Perhaps Indy actually died in the Boomtown explosion and the rest of the film that followed was this lame duck purgatory where he was coerced by scripted mandate not to shoot weapons and to constantly be worried people would "get hurt".




- fatherdude - 03-20-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stale Elvis View Post

So eight years after KotCS was released, do we actually know whose side Mac was on. Has anyone asked Ray Winstone? Perhaps he knows.


And also, why does it even matter?  And what motivation would he have to lead the Russians to Indy once he winds up with the heroes?  His objective is the city of gold, so he hardly needs whatever the Soviets were paying him at that point, and wealth was supposed to be his entire motive.



The Soviets didn't even need his assistance in tracking the heroes.  One of movie's unintentionally comical images would be Spalko picking up Mac's beeping tracker thing at the base of the waterfall, when the amphibious jeep the heroes were in is conspicuously noticeable in the background.  And thank goodness she found that other diode at the base of Big Obvious Important Main Temple, because she'd still be walking around the city aimlessly otherwise.



How do you fuck up such a slam dunk character as Ray Winstone as the morally unreliable WWII buddy of Indiana Jones?!




- agentsands77 - 03-20-2016

AThe film starts falling apart as soon as Mutt shows up with that letter and the convoluted exposition dumps begin. I still don't understand all the backstory with Marion and Oxley and the skull.


- fatherdude - 03-20-2016

It's so pointlessly complicated.  Oxley doesn't need to exist, and Marion doesn't need to be kept secret.  (Mutt only knows her as "Mary?"  GENIUS).  Mutt just has to say, "Look, my mom's Marion Ravenwood and she's been kidnapped."  Boom, Indy has a clear motive to go to South America that the audience is on board with.  It's also a way more sensible plan to lull Indy on the part of the Russians, instead of this horeshit with letting Marion make a phone call and needing Indy to interpret the letter.  Indy helping this random kid find his mom and also find his long lost college friend that we have no relationship with is the weakest impetus for the adventure of any of the movies.



And who ends up being the "lightning rod" to Akator in a version of the story where Oxley doesn't exist?  Indiana Jones.  They make him look at the skull in the final movie, but conveniently only "a little" so he doesn't wind up insane like Oxley.  I say let him slowly get as insane as Oxley, and the third act has Indy unwittingly leading the heroes to the lost city, and they follow because they care about him.  Much better reason for Act III to happen than Indy saying, "Because it toooooooooooold me to."  It's also provides an actual reason for Indy to be less proactive at the end, and would give the movie a sense of menace it's sorely lacking.  I would have Indy acting all creepy and using a guttural voice, instead of the low-rent Ben Gunn approach they did with John Hurt bumbling around.




- Belloq87 - 03-20-2016

Oh, Christ, I'd forgotten how awful a character Mac is!  The whole "I'm a good guy!  I'm a bad guy!  I'm a secretly good guy!  No, I'm REALLY a bad guy!  But you still like me, right, Indy?!" is just awful storytelling.  He should have been revealed to be working with the Soviets in the opening, then have him remain that way until DEEP into the third act, where it's finally revealed he's actually a true CIA good guy and helps Indiana foil the bad guys for real (which could have also explained how Indy ends up cleared of the Commie sympathies charge at the end - Mac pulls strings).  You could have even peppered in moments throughout the film designed for second viewings, where Mac kind of tries to help Indy along the way without being detected by the Soviets; you wouldn't pick up on them the first time through, but knowing his true allegiance would make them stand out on second viewings (for example, there's a great moment in HARRY POTTER AND THE DEATHLY HALLOWS PART 2 where Snape is attacked by Harry and co. and he deflects the spells into two Death Eater goons before making his escape; give Mac bits of business in that sort of flavor).



And what the hell is up with Mac's death scene?!  "Jonesy, I'm gonna be alright!"  What is that shit?  No, Mac, you're pretty clearly about to sucked up into a whirling vortex.  He was within arm's reach of Indy, so why does he basically commit suicide?  And why does he seem so cheerful about it?  Just bizarre.




- agentsands77 - 03-20-2016

AIt all smacks of Lucas being unwilling to let story elements go. I mean, just look at how needlessly convoluted the prequels get.


- carnotaur3 - 03-20-2016

Mac's death is hilarious. He just lays there LMAO!




- fatherdude - 03-20-2016

You guys don't know for sure that Ray Winstone didn't ingratiate himself with the interdimensional aliens and become their ruler.




- hammerhead - 03-20-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 

I agree with this.  TOD is the fullest expression of Steven Spielberg unleashed, and it's glorious.  Perhaps only 1941 comes close to the same kind of thing, although that final product is far less impressive than TOD, at least in my opinion (and I'm still a moderate defender of it).


I still say that's Close Encounters.




- user_32 - 03-20-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post
 

You guys don't know for sure that Ray Winstone didn't ingratiate himself with the interdimensional aliens and become their ruler.



I think we've found our Indy 5 plot.




- dilla7 - 03-20-2016

AWhen are we doing actor casting again cause I really thought I did well with Eva green


- Belloq87 - 03-20-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
 

I still say that's Close Encounters.


You'll never hear me say a bad word about CLOSE ENCOUNTERS, and I prefer it over TEMPLE OF DOOM in general, but there's nothing unhinged about it in the same way there is with TOD.  So many of the quiet and emotional moments (as well as the moments of utter awe and wonder) are pitched at just the right, controlled level, while TEMPLE goes cheeky and grandiose right from the start without much in the way of genuine emotion.  I would describe CLOSE ENCOUNTERS as Spielberg firing on all his cylinders, whereas TOD is Spielberg firing on his madcap and unrestrained cylinders.



I love both movies, though.




- carnotaur3 - 03-20-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post
 


I think we've found our Indy 5 plot.


"Just like in Zeti 2 Reticuli, mate. Just like in that system, you follow?"




- fatherdude - 03-20-2016

"I was playing the longest con ever, Jonesy."




- Stale Elvis - 03-20-2016

AI lov ToD but it always feels a bit cheap to me. Almost every scene had got 'soundstage' written all over it.


- hypnotoad - 03-20-2016

The movie should be about an 80 year old Indiana working as a consultant on a movie by the guys who directed Jaws and Star Wars.




- dilla7 - 03-20-2016

AI have a question isn't it possible for
for Indiana Jones to have more children other than Mutt


- Stale Elvis - 03-20-2016

A[quote name="HypnoToad" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/300#post_4034234"]The movie should be about an 80 year old Indiana working as a consultant on a movie by the guys whove never directed a movie in their lives but pull them apart on message boards.
[/quote]

FTFY

Indiana Jones and the Hollywood Trainwreck from Hell.


- fatherdude - 03-20-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stale Elvis View Post

I lov ToD but it always feels a bit cheap to me. Almost every scene had got 'soundstage' written all over it.


Funny, that's how I felt about CRYSTAL SKULL  It's true that TEMPLE is pretty stagebound but the Sri Lanka trekking footage really sells us on the continent we're in before we end up underground.  It also helps that Slocombe was so goddamned talented and always found ways to make the catacombs dynamic and interesting to look at.



I do have to give a shout out to the work guy Guy Dyas did on CRYSTAL SKULL though.  The sets were damned impressive.  But Spielberg should have put in even a little bit of genuine transition footage in there to seal the illusion, which never happens.  So we ended up watching characters hopping exclusively from set to backlot.  It's distracting.  Even just showing a little bit of Mutt and Indy traveling from the prison to the cemetery would have done wonders, I think.



The first few seconds of this trailer are more evocative than anything in the finished movie, because of the ark theme set over real location footage from Peru.  So of course all of that imagery proved to be second unit work meant exclusively for background plates.  No principal photography cameras rolled outside of the United States at any point during the production of CRYSTAL SKULL.



TEMPLE OF DOOM honestly does have a similar ratio of soundstage to location footage as CRYSTAL SKULL, but there's ultimately no comparison when it comes to the actual effect.  When the heroes emerge from the catacombs in TEMPLE, we're looking at a physical rope bridge stretching across a real location.  When the heroes emerge from the temple of Akator, they're in Los Angeles with Peruvian mountains painted in behind them.  Throw in whatever the fuck Kaminski's doing with the drab palette and the glowy effect and it looks ten times cheaper than anything in the installments twenty years its senior.








- Nooj - 03-20-2016

Soundstage or not... TEMPLE OF DOOM is GOOOOOORGEEEEOOOOOUSSSSSSS!!!




- agentsands77 - 03-20-2016

A[quote name="mcnooj82" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/330#post_4034255"]Soundstage or not... TEMPLE OF DOOM is GOOOOOORGEEEEOOOOOUSSSSSSS!!!
[/quote]
Yep.


- scottieferguson - 03-20-2016

Honestly, the obvious sets are one of reasons I love that flick.  Especially the main mine cavern set.  Obviously fake, but just a delight in gonzo set design.  See also, Goonies and Hook.  You don't always need verisimilitude.




- user_32 - 03-20-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilla7 View Post

I have a question isn't it possible for
for Indiana Jones to have more children other than Mutt


Indiana Jones and the Temple of Illegitimate Children




- dilla7 - 03-20-2016

AI thought since Indy has been with many women that it might be possible


- atomtastic - 03-20-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post



Ugh, KamiƄski is so wrong for Indiana Jones. Maybe The Beard can bring Old Cudney back?




- user_32 - 03-20-2016

Spielberg will never change Kaminsky as his DP.




- Dent6084 - 03-20-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

Soundstage or not... TEMPLE OF DOOM is GOOOOOORGEEEEOOOOOUSSSSSSS!!!


Yeah. That is an amazing-looking film.  The red lighting in the Temple, the glamor of the Shanghai nightclub, that iconic shot of Indy being caught by the light of the minecart, ready to beat the shit out of the slavers.  I think the film kinda sags between Shanghai and the spike room and I've never been that fond of the raft escape from the plane, but all the action in that opening sequence and from the spike room on is among the very best of Spielberg's career, and Ford brings it 100%.  Mola Ram is a great, pulpy villain, and the second half is just a spectacular roller coaster ride.




- atomtastic - 03-20-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by User_32 View Post
 

Spielberg will never change Kaminsky as his DP.


I know and it's such a shame.




- fatherdude - 03-22-2016

Ford appears on Kimmel and acknowledges the new Indy.  No actual information, obviously, but he promises "I'll be ready."  Dude's always kept himself in good shape, but going by history he really hits the gym when production is on the horizon.



It's a shame the set pieces in CRYSTAL SKULL were so inert, because Ford was really physical in them.  I truly believe despite all the concerns at the time that he was Indy in Full Capacity in that movie, and no doubt for the last time.  And here's the part where I show some restraint and don't bring up how his vigor would have been put to much better use in Darabont's set pieces rather than Koepp's.




- malmordo - 03-22-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post
 

Ford appears on Kimmel and acknowledges the new Indy.  No actual information, obviously, but he promises "I'll be ready."  Dude's always kept himself in good shape, but going by history he really hits the gym when production is on the horizon.



I thought Ford looked alarmingly frail in THE EXPENDABLES 3.




- Stale Elvis - 03-22-2016

AHe also mentions Indy (in between naps) at the end of this new BBC interview.


- fatherdude - 03-22-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malmordo View Post


I thought Ford looked alarmingly frail in THE EXPENDABLES 3.



Which was filmed prior to STAR WARS, where looked great despite suffering a broken leg.  How seriously he takes the project is no doubt a factor here.




- Stale Elvis - 03-22-2016

AFord loves Indy more than any other character he's played. He'll give it 110% at the gym and in front of the camera.

He hates doing press junkets that's a given, but when it comes to his favourite character he's totally committed from start to finish.