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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

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RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 02-27-2020

(02-27-2020, 09:42 AM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: It just took him until 2020 to finally say he’s not into Indy anymore.

Which is a bummer. I don't know why the guy who made TINTIN and READY PLAYER ONE in the last decade would feel this way, but I think it's kind of obvious that he does.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Richard Dickson - 02-27-2020

I wonder if the relative meh that greeted Ready Player One made him think his time in that particular playground is over (and I say this as someone who thoroughly enjoyed RPO and thinks he'd be wrong to think so).


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 02-27-2020

Possible. I think Spielberg has a history of believing certain perceptions of his films that aren't fully reflective of the spectrum of opinion.

READY PLAYER ONE made me excited to see him do Indiana Jones again, because it felt like "Popcorn Spielberg" was fully engaged.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 02-27-2020

I mean, READY PLAYER ONE was a success.  Perhaps a modest one in the final calculus, but for a non-franchise action/adventure movie with a Marvel level budget to make money in this age is an accomplishment.  And it would have been one for a 35-year-old director. If anything, that movie was a comeback after THE BFG in terms of Spielberg proving he could still operate in the escapist sandbox. Between that and the fact that Harrison Ford just opened a movie that is currently #1 at the box office, INDY 5 was well positioned as their big encore together. Alas.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - waaaaaaaalt - 02-27-2020

(02-27-2020, 10:54 AM)boone daniels Wrote: Mummy '99 features peak Rachel Weisz.

It does! It's pretty damn good really. You would never take that long to get to the mummy action if you made it today.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mola ram - 02-27-2020

(02-27-2020, 11:43 AM)Belloq87 Wrote:
(02-27-2020, 09:42 AM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: It just took him until 2020 to finally say he’s not into Indy anymore.

Which is a bummer.  I don't know why the guy who made TINTIN and READY PLAYER ONE in the last decade would feel this way, but I think it's kind of obvious that he does.

Because Spielberg got to experiment with technology new to him.

Indiana Jones is a different kind of film.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 02-27-2020

If this news had dropped even a week ago we might have gotten Ford's reaction to it, but I think his press junket is over.  

If we believe this happened as suddenly on the inside as it appeared to us, then I cannot imagine Ford's feelings toward the project are the same as they were during these recent interviews.  I always assumed he considered Spielberg a necessary condition.  It will be interesting to get even the company line version of this turn of events from people involved with the production.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - arjen rudd - 02-27-2020

I heard an interesting rumor, which was that Spielberg was hellbent on remaking The Last Starfighter, felt confident he had a great way to do it, and was shut out due to a very messy situation with the rights (apparently a lot of attempts have been made to remake Last Starfighter). When that officially collapsed is when he decided to do Ready Player One, as it covered a lot of similar ground.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 02-27-2020

The rumor amongst the FX folks at ILM/Lucasfilm is that this is 100% family driven as to Spielberg's withdrawal.  Specifically, what is going on with his adopted daughter.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 02-27-2020

What's going on with his adopted daughter?


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - hp pufncraft - 02-27-2020

She recently announced that she wants to become a porn star.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 02-27-2020

ooooh yeah. For some reason I blanked on that being the Beard's daughter.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - boone daniels - 02-27-2020

Spielberg and Lawrence Fishburne can form a support group.

A while back on Twitter I argued that if NBC/Universal wants to get numbers up for their Peacock subscription platform, they should announce a limited series MUMMY sequel set in the 1950s with Weisz and Fraiser reunited.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 02-27-2020

(02-27-2020, 01:27 PM)Overlord Wrote: The rumor amongst the FX folks at ILM/Lucasfilm is that this is 100% family driven as to Spielberg's withdrawal.  Specifically, what is going on with his adopted daughter.

While I'm sure that rumor is circulating, I can't imagine that's really a factor.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - dranbon - 02-27-2020

Of course the biggest news breaks on my day off. Anyway, here’s a few words from me: https://trouble.city/articles/2020/2/27/this-isnt-news-dont-make-indiana-jones-5-without-spielberg


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 02-27-2020

(02-27-2020, 02:11 PM)dranbon Wrote: Of course the biggest news breaks on my day off. Anyway, here’s a few words from me: https://trouble.city/articles/2020/2/27/this-isnt-news-dont-make-indiana-jones-5-without-spielberg

I mostly agree.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 02-27-2020

I call bullshit. Indy could have survived fine without Spielberg if Lucas and Ford weren't so insistent that Spielberg be the only director. All it takes is finding the right guy not only fits the franchise but brings something new that keeps it fresh. Indy should be bigger than Spielberg, and besides Spielberg had often remarked that these were really not his films but rather George's films, and boy was that apparent with CRYSTAL SKULL.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 02-27-2020

(02-27-2020, 02:38 PM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote:  Spielberg had often remarked that these were really not his films but rather George's films, and boy was that apparent with CRYSTAL SKULL.

I feel like the actual films we have kind of prove the opposite. Lucas best served as idea man, and someone against whom Spielberg could spitball and course correct. The first three films seemed to have worked so well because they relied on Lucas's love of pulp (providing a source and tone for the stories) but on Spielbeg's expertise and signature style to actually make them interesting, entertaining and fun.

Because look at the one film we got when Lucas's creative vision overrode the Beard's: KOTCS.

(Also, just look at Lucas's solo directing - the SW Prequels - compared to Spielberg's. It's clear who shoulders the larger credit for making Indiana Jones a household name and part of cinema history.)

Spielberg's line about these being George's films strikes me as affected modesty and genuine friendship. KOTCS excluded.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 02-27-2020

(02-27-2020, 03:13 PM)the MichaelM Wrote: Because look at the one film we got when Lucas's creative vision overrode the Beard's: KOTCS.

Except ... the biggest problems with KOTCS have nothing to do with the general conception of the story (I think one more VERY heavy polish could have slapped the script into pretty decent shape), they're technical problems.  E.g. the staging of scenes, the horrible use of fx, the disastrous color-grading, the way the actors/actresses were told to approach their roles ... I could go on.

If you want to assign more credit to Spielberg than Lucas I think a better item of proof would be the Young Indy series.  Spielberg wasn't involved at all and it pretty much sucked from top to bottom.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 02-27-2020

Isn't it pretty widely accepted that Spielberg was on automatic pilot for KOTCS due to being overridden by Lucas?


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 02-27-2020

(02-27-2020, 03:40 PM)MichaelM Wrote: Isn't it pretty widely accepted that Spielberg was on automatic pilot for KOTCS due to being overridden by Lucas?

That's a Spielberg problem.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 02-27-2020

It's an interpretation that seems to get a lot of traction, but I think it's fairly uncritical. It comes from a point of view of wanting to let Spielberg off the hook.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - atomtastic - 02-27-2020

(02-27-2020, 10:54 AM)boone daniels Wrote: Mummy '99 features peak Rachel Weisz.
I never thought I'd have to call the horny police on Boone, but here we are.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - boone daniels - 02-27-2020

Spielberg definitely kept Lucas' ideas in check, no doubt. But even then, Spielberg let him - and contributed to - George getting away with a lot! Any excuse to quote from that infamous Lucas-Kazdan-Spielberg story conference around Raiders, regarding Marion:

Quote:Lawrence Kasdan: I like it if they already had a relationship at one point. Because then you don't have to build it.

George Lucas: I was thinking that this old guy could have been his mentor. He could have known this little girl when she was just a kid. Had an affair with her when she was eleven.

Kasdan: And he was forty-two.

Lucas: He hasn't seen her in twelve years. Now she's twenty-two. It's a real strange relationship.

Spielberg: She had better be older than twenty-two.

Lucas: He's thirty-five, and he knew her ten years ago when he was twenty-five and she was only twelve.

Lucas: It would be amusing to make her slightly young at the time.

Spielberg: And promiscuous. She came onto him.

Lucas: Fifteen is right on the edge.
I know it's an outrageous idea, but it is interesting. Once she's sixteen or seventeen it's not interesting anymore. But if she was fifteen and he was twenty-five and they actually had an affair the last time they met. And she was madly in love with him and he...

Spielberg: She has pictures of him.

From here, which confirms that the novelization says that Lucas got his "right on the edge" age of fifteen.

https://www.polygon.com/2015/8/3/9089181/indiana-jones-abusive-creep

Also from the article:

Quote:The men who brainstormed the story and Indiana Jones himself seem to think he can't be blamed as long as she came onto him. After all, he says in Nepal: "She knew what she was doing."

Lucas didn't rub the audiences nose in it, but it was always a part of the relationship.

"This is a resource that you can either mine or not. It's not as blatant as we're talking about. You don't think about it that much," Lucas explained. "You don't immediately realize how old she was at the time. It would be subtle. She could talk about it. 'I was jail bait the last time we were together.' She can flaunt it at him, but at the same time she never says, 'I was fifteen years old.'

Now, lest you think I'm a big prude, one of my favorite pieces of Indiana Jones-adjacent writing is this piece from Bright Walls, Dark Room, which imagines Marion's side of that relationship, and draws the line all the way through to Crystal Skull.

https://www.brightwalldarkroom.com/2016/07/11/you-know-what-youre-doing/


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 02-27-2020

Jesus that conversation.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Misfit - 02-27-2020

We know you're not a prude, you just told us how horny you are for Rachel Weisz.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 02-27-2020

Marion's age in Raiders is 27 according to Indiana Jones: The Ultimate Guide. That would have made her 17 and Indy 27 during their affair. Still skeevy.

As for Boone's love of Rachel Weisz, I mean, c'mon.  Who can argue with that?

**The following image brought to you by Boone in fantabulous sensurround:

[Image: RSYHiTngrTZXSPcnJN0AkV06_vY5fduKOzNN0_Nh...85858cc1c6]


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - boone daniels - 02-27-2020

It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a straight man in possession of good taste, must have been horny for Rachel Weisz at least once in his life.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 02-27-2020

This may or may not be a picture of my pants after Overlord's post.

[Image: giphy.gif]


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Misfit - 02-27-2020

(02-27-2020, 04:05 PM)boone daniels Wrote: It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a straight man in possession of good taste, must have been horny for Rachel Weisz at least once in his life.

*remembers buying About a Boy on DVD*

Fair enough.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - hammerhead - 02-27-2020

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Three Weisz Men.

...




Kidding, we're all Weiszenheimers here.

[Image: Rachel-Weisz-rachel-weisz-120292_1280_1627.jpg]


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 02-27-2020

Nice to see you Weiszen up.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - commodorejohn - 02-27-2020

(02-27-2020, 04:05 PM)boone daniels Wrote: It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a straight man in possession of good taste, must have been horny for Rachel Weisz at least once in his life.
...I think the only thing I've seen Weisz in was Eragon.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 02-27-2020

I can't believe you just admitted to having watched ERAGON.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 02-27-2020

(02-27-2020, 02:38 PM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: I call bullshit. Indy could have survived fine without Spielberg if Lucas and Ford weren't so insistent that Spielberg be the only director. All it takes is finding the right guy not only fits the franchise but brings something new that keeps it fresh. Indy should be bigger than Spielberg, and besides Spielberg had often remarked that these were really not his films but rather George's films, and boy was that apparent with CRYSTAL SKULL.

I didn't mean to imply that nobody other than Spielberg could make an Indiana Jones movie, only that my interest has (mostly) evaporated without his presence, and will completely vanish once Ford moves on, too.

(02-27-2020, 03:13 PM)MichaelM Wrote: I feel like the actual films we have kind of prove the opposite. Lucas best served as idea man, and someone against whom Spielberg could spitball and course correct. The first three films seemed to have worked so well because they relied on Lucas's love of pulp (providing a source and tone for the stories) but on Spielbeg's expertise and signature style to actually make them interesting, entertaining and fun.

Because look at the one film we got when Lucas's creative vision overrode the Beard's: KOTCS.

(Also, just look at Lucas's solo directing - the SW Prequels - compared to Spielberg's. It's clear who shoulders the larger credit for making Indiana Jones a household name and part of cinema history.)

Spielberg's line about these being George's films strikes me as affected modesty and genuine friendship. KOTCS excluded.

With respect, I think this somewhat underrates and undervalues Lucas' contributions.   If you read the story conference transcripts that Boone mentions in their entirety, what you'll find is that it's Lucas who is often reining in Spielberg's weirder and goofier ideas.  And what particularly jumps out to me when reading those conversations is what an outstanding command of structure and overall narrative shape that Lucas (once) had, as well as an inherent feel for the components needed for a terrific adventure yarn.

Both men needed each other to make RAIDERS the great film that it is.

(02-27-2020, 03:56 PM)boone daniels Wrote: Now, lest you think I'm a big prude, one of my favorite pieces of Indiana Jones-adjacent writing is this piece from Bright Walls, Dark Room, which imagines Marion's side of that relationship, and draws the line all the way through to Crystal Skull.

https://www.brightwalldarkroom.com/2016/07/11/you-know-what-youre-doing/

This is some excellent writing.  If only the version of Marion we got in CRYSTAL SKULL had anything close to resembling this sort of depth!