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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

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RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - commodorejohn - 03-03-2020

Hey, there's nothing in the Bible that says God didn't create reclusive, vindictive aliens whose heads are magnetic for some reason!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Dent6084 - 03-03-2020

That was the Twelfth Day. God was pretty bored at that point, was really just creating for shits and giggles.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - rexbanner - 03-03-2020

(03-03-2020, 07:09 PM)fatherdude Wrote: And what the hell does it even mean that aliens exist in the same mythology in which all these other religious deities happen to be real?  Everyone's faith is pranked in the end.

I remember hearing this quite a few times back when Skull came out, but I've never really agreed. I know what you mean in that Judaic, Hindu, and Christian myths don't sit great with aliens in terms of feel, but the existence of a creator wouldn't, by any means, rule out the existence of aliens, and it's not like the films take as given that everything to do with those religions is true anyhow.

Raiders, Temple, and Last Crusade all posit that there's something real behind all the artefacts and their religions, but that something is open and mysterious enough to account for Old Testament avenging angels and magical Sankara stones.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 03-03-2020

(03-03-2020, 07:29 PM)rexbanner Wrote: I remember hearing this quite a few times back when Skull came out, but I've never really agreed. I know what you mean in that Judaic, Hindu, and Christian myths don't sit great with aliens in terms of feel, but the existence of a creator wouldn't, by any means, rule out the existence of aliens, and it's not like the films take as given that everything to do with those religions is true anyhow.

The notion of intelligent alien life is directly incompatible with the scriptures of the Judeo-Christian religions on a number of inferential levels.

I would, however, note that nearly everything we know about life, the universe, physics, etc., is directly incompatible with the Judeo-Christian holy texts, so this would just be one more item to add to the lengthy catalogue.

**I would also note that the existence of Kali/Shiva/Hinduism-in-general is directly incompatible with the teachings of Western monotheisms!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - commodorejohn - 03-03-2020

(03-03-2020, 07:43 PM)Overlord Wrote: The notion of intelligent alien life is directly incompatible with the scriptures of the Judeo-Christian religions on a number of inferential levels.
I would disagree (read C.S. Lewis's "Space Trilogy" sometime! It's 2/3rds great and 2/3rds gonzo!) but this is probably a discussion for another thread.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 03-03-2020

(03-03-2020, 07:52 PM)commodorejohn Wrote:
(03-03-2020, 07:43 PM)Overlord Wrote: The notion of intelligent alien life is directly incompatible with the scriptures of the Judeo-Christian religions on a number of inferential levels.
I would disagree (read C.S. Lewis's "Space Trilogy" sometime! It's 2/3rds great and 2/3rds gonzo!) but this is probably a discussion for another thread.

I don't really want to get dragged into a scripture debate, but a plain reading of the Bible (Old and New) and Q'u'r'a'n makes it pretty fucking clear that life here on earth is considered special, unique, formed all at once, etc.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Munson - 03-03-2020

Re watched Last Crusade because of this thread, still solid. I remembered the bad guy getting grail wrecked being worse, he basically just turns into Christopher Lloyd. Was weirded out by the fact that hot blonde fucked Indy and his dad. Definitely missed that one as a kid.

The film stands as a testament to the rough life of hot blondes. You can fuck a dudes dad, betray him multiple times, put his life in danger repeatably, all while being an actual Nazi, and said dude will still dive into a gaping chasm in the middle of an earthquake to try and save you.

Also why not the B'i'b'l'e? Legit is that some weird way of spelling I've never seen before?


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 03-03-2020

(03-03-2020, 08:29 PM)Munson Wrote: The film stands as a testament to the rough life of hot blondes. You can fuck a dudes dad, betray him multiple times, put his life in danger repeatably, all while being an actual Nazi, and said dude will still dive into a gaping chasm in the middle of an earthquake to try and save you.

Also why not the B'i'b'l'e? Legit is that some weird way of spelling I've never seen before?

As to the former, it's the most realistic part of the Indy movies.

As to the latter, it amuses me to point out needless apostrophes through exaggeration.  Q'i'r'a from Solo is another favorite.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - arjen rudd - 03-03-2020

One thing I love about the end of Last Crusade is Indy looking back at the ruins of Petra, regretting Elsa’s fate, and Connery comes up next to him all like ‘Who fucking cares!’


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 03-03-2020

It's such a beautiful shot, too, boasting exactly the kind of razor-sharp photography that doesn't appear in CRYSTAL SKULL.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Jones - 03-03-2020

(03-03-2020, 07:56 PM)Overlord Wrote: I don't really want to get dragged into a scripture debate, but a plain reading of the Bible (Old and New) and Q'u'r'a'n makes it pretty fucking clear that life here on earth is considered special, unique, formed all at once, etc.

Well life on earth is special and unique, that certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist in some other fashion elsewhere in the universe.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - hammerhead - 03-03-2020

What the hell, send him after the Infinity Gauntlet.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - farsight - 03-04-2020

Who says the previous Indy movies are showing religion as real?

Perhaps the Ark, Stones and Grail were ALL alien artifacts that ancient people just didn't understand! Skull was giving you a grand unifying theory and you missed it!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 03-04-2020

Found the pdf of Philip Kaufman's JIMGRIM VS THE NINE UNKNOWN.  Worth reading if you are interested in a would-be "knockoff" (even though clearly Indy is indebted to the Jimgrim books) franchise that the 80s delivered in an alternate universe.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/8x7bd89ql451495/Jimgrim_vs_the_Nine_Unknown.pdf/file


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - rexbanner - 03-04-2020

(03-04-2020, 04:31 AM)farsight Wrote: Who says the previous Indy movies are showing religion as real?

Perhaps the Ark, Stones and Grail were ALL alien artifacts that ancient people just didn't understand! Skull was giving you a grand unifying theory and you missed it!

This, I think, was one of the ideas in the Frank Darabont Indy IV script. I don't want to accidentally slander Darabont, so I'm not sure, but sweet Jesus what a terrible idea.

(03-03-2020, 07:43 PM)Overlord Wrote: The notion of intelligent alien life is directly incompatible with the scriptures of the Judeo-Christian religions on a number of inferential levels.  

I would, however, note that nearly everything we know about life, the universe, physics, etc., is directly incompatible with the Judeo-Christian holy texts, so this would just be one more item to add to the lengthy catalogue.

**I would also note that the existence of Kali/Shiva/Hinduism-in-general is directly incompatible with the teachings of Western monotheisms!

Yeah, but the Raiders films don't suppose that every word of Christian theology and myth is true - they just posit that there's something (a pretty hefty something) to the Jewish and Christian stories behind the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy Grail. In the Indy universe there's also something pretty powerful and mysterious behind Hinduism. 

I don't think that aliens conflict with the theology of the ambiguously Indianu-Christiani-daic universe of Indy films, and while I don't think a fourth film was a good idea I think, out there in some parallel universe, there's a good Indiana Jones film which has aliens in it.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - arjen rudd - 03-04-2020

I think it's all a lot simpler than that. In the Indiana Jones universe, everything is real. Anything anyone ever believed.

You could postulate that it's a series of Tulpas, wherein enough belief in a thing bestows existence and power. Sort of like American Gods (or Small Gods by Terry Pratchett). But even that is more complicated than necessary.

[Image: SkeletalBronzeAcornwoodpecker-size_restricted.gif]


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 03-04-2020

Honestly, I always kind of liked the implication that all of the world's major belief systems were real in the Indiana Jones universe.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - commodorejohn - 03-04-2020

It was a very wise decision on the part of Lucas and Spielberg to never, ever raise or attempt to address the implications there.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 03-04-2020

And even kind of flaunting that evasion with the running joke (of sorts) of Indy reverting to skeptic at the start of every adventure.  Ideally there is a moment in the fifth film where he calls UFO sighters crackpots.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Nooj - 03-04-2020

"and X never EVER EVERRRRRR marks the...

HOLY SHIT!! TEN!!!!"


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - rexbanner - 03-04-2020

(03-04-2020, 04:35 PM)arjen rudd Wrote: I think it's all a lot simpler than that. In the Indiana Jones universe, everything is real. Anything anyone ever believed.

You could postulate that it's a series of Tulpas, wherein enough belief in a thing bestows existence and power. Sort of like American Gods (or Small Gods by Terry Pratchett). But even that is more complicated than necessary.

For some reason I've always loathed the Tulpas trope, where gods etc. are willed into existence and/or need belief to exist. It appeared in a lot of 90s monster-of-the-week shows and kids' supernatural cartoons a lot when I was a kid, and American Gods and the more serious bits of the Terry Pratchett novels never did anything clever with it. 

Another reason for Raiders, Temple, and Crusade's brilliance is that the supernatural stuff is all handled in a way that instinctively feels realistic. I mean, I don't believe that anyone's ever experienced an earthly manifestation of a god's wrath, but if they did, I bet it would go down an awful lot like it does at the end of Raiders. An ambiguous mix of fire and lightning, blurry angels, and wind whipping about. Meanwhile, Doom and Crusade use plenty of restraint when it comes to depicting their central objects. 

It's like how the ghosts in The Shining feel a billion times more realistic than those in Thirteen Ghosts or The Haunting (1999), even though ghosts ain't real.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - hammerhead - 03-04-2020

When it comes to suspension of disbelief, I must remind everyone that Raiders TOTALLY GETS AWAY WITH HAVING A TALKING MONKEY IN IT. It's not the content but the tone.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 03-04-2020

The best wacky moment in RAIDERS is the scene where Marion is subjected to the mummies in the catacombs area of the Well of Souls and Ben Burtt shamelessly employs a bunch of haunted house shrieking sound effects.  I guess it's supposed to be Maron's subjective experience?  It's worth noting that it is apparently Karen Allen's most hated memory of the production.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 03-04-2020

(03-04-2020, 08:01 PM)fatherdude Wrote: I guess it's supposed to be Maron's subjective experience?  

This is how I've always interpreted it.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 03-04-2020

I love that moment with Marion and the mummies! And yes, I never thought it was the corpses making those sounds, but just the movie having some macabre fun in the mix purely for the sake of it.

I also love the similar stuff with the bodies in POLTERGEIST.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Misfit - 03-17-2020

Coronavirus is going to be what finally does this in, right? At this point I'm guessing they wouldn't even be able to start production until next year. Stupid virus.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 03-17-2020

No doubt, the pandemic is going to be the handy excuse they've been waiting for to kill this thing at last.  Can't be jetting Harrison Ford across oceans for the rigorous and global shoot that this would have been [if done correctly].


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mola ram - 03-17-2020

With Mangold taking over Indy 5 it was likely going to be delayed again, especially if Mangold decides to re-write or change some stuff in the script himself.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 03-17-2020

I'd be much more open to the idea of Mangold just kicking off a new era with a different actor. Lucas doesn't want to do more. Spielberg obviously doesn't want to do more. It's time for new blood. I loved Ford as Indy, but I'm more eager to move forward with someone else in the role.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - simbob - 03-17-2020

Mangold doesn't seem fun enough to do a good proper Indy movie. While I like Logan for the most part, the movie sucks out all the fun comic book design stuff from its setting and characters for something more "real"...and Indiana Jones is lots of heightened comic pulpy fun that he hasn't even done in the movies about a guy with super powers and a metal skeleton and claws.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mola ram - 03-17-2020

(03-17-2020, 08:40 PM)simbob Wrote: Mangold doesn't seem fun enough to do a good proper Indy movie. While I like Logan for the most part, the movie sucks out all the fun comic book design stuff from its setting and characters for something more "real"...and Indiana Jones is lots of heightened comic pulpy fun that he hasn't even done in the movies about a guy with super powers and a metal skeleton and claws.

...... Mangold has made more films than just Logan.

His most recent film Ford v Ferrari was tons of fun, with a perfect masculine style fit for Indy imo.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Fafhrd - 03-18-2020

Hell, even The Wolverine has a solid pulpy adventure core to it. Especially the uncut version.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - history buff - 03-18-2020

(03-17-2020, 05:05 PM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: I'd be much more open to the idea of Mangold just kicking off a new era with a different actor. Lucas doesn't want to do more. Spielberg obviously doesn't want to do more. It's time for new blood. I loved Ford as Indy, but I'm more eager to move forward with someone else in the role.

I've been saying this forever. But so many people think it would be outrageous for anyone other than Ford to be Indiana Jones. I don't see why. Lucas, Speilberg, and Ford seemed to all have moved on, why not let somebody else take a crack at it. Then you can place the films in the 1930s like they were meant to be.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 03-18-2020

(03-18-2020, 02:18 AM)history buff Wrote:
(03-17-2020, 05:05 PM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: I'd be much more open to the idea of Mangold just kicking off a new era with a different actor. Lucas doesn't want to do more. Spielberg obviously doesn't want to do more. It's time for new blood. I loved Ford as Indy, but I'm more eager to move forward with someone else in the role.

I've been saying this forever. But so many people think it would be outrageous for anyone other than Ford to be Indiana Jones. I don't see why. Lucas, Speilberg, and Ford seemed to all have moved on, why not let somebody else take a crack at it. Then you can place the films in the 1930s like they were meant to be.

Quite a few people have been saying it.

Just fucking recast the role.  Film a few movies back-to-back with Pratt or Antony Starr before they get even older.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 03-18-2020

PINE, goddamit.