The Trouble City Forums
INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

+- The Trouble City Forums (http://citizens.trouble.city)
+-- Forum: Main Street (http://citizens.trouble.city/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Focused Film Discussion (http://citizens.trouble.city/forumdisplay.php?fid=94)
+--- Thread: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion (/showthread.php?tid=155331)



RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bartleby_scriven - 05-26-2020

What I really want is a Marion Ravenwood Disney+ series.

Start it in 1926 (after the affair with MUCH OLDER Indy is over) and you've got a decade of stories before she ends up running a bar in Nepal.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 05-26-2020

The thing about using Russians as bad guys is that you can't fully commit to them as BAD GUYS in the same way that you can with Nazis. There's some legit 'good people on both sides' arguments to be had with Russians in general, whereas there's no equivocation with Nazis.

'Nazis...I hate these guys.' That works.
'Russians...I hate these guys.' That doesn't work. It's too general.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 05-26-2020

Judas is a Russian asset!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - hammerhead - 05-26-2020

Indy vs the Klan then.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - commodorejohn - 05-26-2020

The Cold War is more of a "bad people on both sides" situation than anything, but yeah, it doesn't have quite the same resonance.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 05-26-2020

Let's just contemporarize the whole thing and have like a hipster Indy fighting the alt-right.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 05-26-2020

(05-26-2020, 01:42 PM)hammerhead Wrote: Indy vs the Klan then.

I don't think that bringing a racial element into the IJ films is the way to go.  Also, in today's climate, you'd really bring up 'both sides' arguments.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - rexbanner - 05-26-2020

I am opposed to an Indy V, and don't think it would work even if you had Spielberg, Ford, and a script put together by Lucas and Kasdan in the 1980s. That said, I think the best move for the series would be a Casino Royale style, stripped down affair.

No jokes that sound like they could've come from any time after 1980; a relatively small-scale macguffin (you're never gonna top the Ark of the Covenant or the Holy Grail, so don't try right off the bat); a relatively low (but not really low) budget; lots of location-shooting; and heaps of 30s noir imagery (which I think is as underappreciated key ingredient of Raiders). Most importantly, don't have Indy going through an arc - you can have a story in which the character reveals things about themselves, or is tested, without them necessarily changing.

Also, unlike Casino Royale, avoid big emotional displays. Indy's not a stoic hero, but neither is he the type of hero I want to see sent into a nightmarish rage because someone he loves has been put at risk or killed.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 05-26-2020

(05-26-2020, 01:37 PM)bartleby_scriven Wrote: What I really want is a Marion Ravenwood Disney+ series.

Start it in 1926 (after the affair with MUCH OLDER Indy is over) and you've got a decade of stories before she ends up running a bar in Nepal.

I'd watch it, though I wouldn't envy a young actress trying to approximate that spitfire quality that Karen Allen brought to Marion.

Would be interesting to know more about Abner, though.

(05-26-2020, 01:38 PM)Judas Booth Wrote: The thing about using Russians as bad guys is that you can't fully commit to them as BAD GUYS in the same way that you can with Nazis. There's some legit 'good people on both sides' arguments to be had with Russians in general, whereas there's no equivocation with Nazis.

'Nazis...I hate these guys.' That works.
'Russians...I hate these guys.' That doesn't work. It's too general.

Don't frame them as Russians, frame them as Soviet communists. The Soviet regime was responsible for more than enough extraordinarily heinous stuff to justify making them fairly black-and-white baddies in a pulp adventure story. If you need to supply some nuance, you can do that through the lead villain (Belloq-style), but let Indy kill some goons, please.

But again, Spielberg clearly didn't want to go there.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 05-26-2020

I still say that, if you're going to do Indy V, make it a firm ending.

My idea: have the McGuffin be INDIANA JONES AND THE FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH, with the McGuffin being Shangri-La. Let Indy and Marion end up there, locked away forever in their youth and sent off with a happy ending. Use de-aging for the final scenes, referencing how they looked in RAIDERS. It'd put a capper on the Ford run of IJ films with a happy ending. Bring back Sallah and Short Round to give it a reunion of sorts, allowing the surviving players to have a victory lap and say goodbye.

Then, reboot the thing with Pratt.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 05-26-2020

Having Indy fight only Nazis is like having Bond only fighting Russians and SPECTRE. Just because THE LAST CRUSADE brought them back out one time doesn't mean they should be the only antagonist for Indy to face. Ultimately, the villains just have to be villainous enough for us to want to see Indy punch the shit out of, and there's so many more potential villains that could use a good punching.

And for Indy to truly move into the Bond mode, the filmmakers need to stop overthinking and just make the flicks, but I don't think that's possible with any of the old guard. CRYSTAL SKULL took 12 years to make because Ford/Lucas/Speilberg all had to be on the same page for some reason and that didn't really work out well. I remember when INDY V was first announced the first possible release date was 2011, and we're way beyond that now. If delaying and delaying and delaying is only going to result in a mediocre installment with an aging actor, then I rather they just bite the bullet and go with a younger actor who has no say in the material like Ford, preferably someone who's NOT Chris Pratt.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 05-26-2020

(05-26-2020, 01:35 PM)MichaelM Wrote: Or, you know. Let the character be and tell some new stories, with new characters, that also happen to be set in the pulp era. It's not like there's some kind of dearth of source material.

[Image: 42wip7.jpg]


***A Marion prequel television series with at least one fleshed out arc and multiple fleshed out supporting characters was pitched to Lucasfilm brass in late 2018 and early 2019 as an animated show.  The time period was going to be Marion in her late teens continuing into her college years. Very promising idea, I thought.  They passed.  If they decide to resurrect the idea the original "pitchers" are going to be pissed.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Evi - 05-26-2020

(05-26-2020, 02:24 PM)Overlord Wrote: ***A Marion prequel television series with at least one fleshed out arc and multiple fleshed out supporting characters was pitched to Lucasfilm brass in late 2018 and early 2019 as an animated show.  The time period was going to be Marion in her late teens continuing into her college years.  Very promising idea, I thought.  They passed.  If they decide to resurrect the idea the original "pitchers" are going to be pissed.

I'm sure they'd be pissed and go around telling everyone it was their idea but nobody owns the concept of a spin-off based on an existing character. Whoever it was who first pitched an Obi-Wan spinoff and didn't get it made is probably also pretty pissed now too.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 05-26-2020

(05-26-2020, 02:34 PM)Evi Wrote: I'm sure they'd be pissed and go around telling everyone it was their idea but nobody owns the concept of a spin-off based on an existing character.

This is true.  Never even suggested otherwise.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - hammerhead - 05-26-2020

Would the show have addressed her status as a single mom?


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 05-26-2020

(05-26-2020, 02:50 PM)hammerhead Wrote: Would the show have addressed her status as a single mom?

Would the show address that apparently Indy was with her when she was underage?


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - arjen rudd - 05-26-2020

Set the series in an eternal idea of the pulp age. Fuck continuity completely, everything's a one off. Everyone's an old friend or an old rival, who references a past adventure we never see. Kill nazis forever, but also Soviets, and death cults, and I don't know, ninjas and shit. And the Klan, why not? They're a great pulp villain group.

Continuity is the enemy, in this franchise. Free it up! These can be exercises in adventure filmmaking, not an elaborate mythology, and this can be what makes them unique on the current marketplace.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 05-26-2020

(05-26-2020, 02:53 PM)Judas Booth Wrote:
(05-26-2020, 02:50 PM)hammerhead Wrote: Would the show have addressed her status as a single mom?

Would the show address that apparently Indy was with her when she was underage?

She knew what she was doing.

**the pitched animated show's overall arc would have ended after the adventure to find the headpiece with her setting up that bar in the Himalayas.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 05-26-2020

RAVENHOOD: BUILDING THAT ALCOHOL TOLERANCE


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 05-26-2020

(05-26-2020, 02:55 PM)arjen rudd Wrote: Set the series in an eternal idea of the pulp age. Fuck continuity completely, everything's a one off. Everyone's an old friend or an old rival, who references a past adventure we never see. Kill nazis forever, but also Soviets, and death cults, and I don't know, ninjas and shit. And the Klan, why not? They're a great pulp villain group.

Continuity is the enemy, in this franchise. Free it up! These can be exercises in adventure filmmaking, not an elaborate mythology, and this can be what makes them unique on the current marketplace.

All of this please.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mola ram - 05-26-2020

(05-26-2020, 01:32 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: The Soviets in CRYSTAL SKULL could have been excellent and formidable bad guys, but Spielberg didn't want to commit to really going there like he did with the Nazis.  Don't muddy the waters with McCarthy/Red Scare commentary, just go for it.

As for the approach going forward, I can't deny that a big part of me wanted to see Ford and Spielberg give us one last adventure.  Now that Spielberg's out of the directing chair, I can't muster much enthusiasm for either a last hurrah with Ford OR a recasting.  The ideal way to transition should have been to do it GODFATHER PART II-style, with both Ford and his younger replacement taking part in a split-chronology story (and helmed by Spielberg).  Ease us in.  As it stands now, a completely new Indiana Jones without Spielberg directing would hold very little interest for me.

I do agree that, whatever they decide to do post-Ford, it should put the character back in the 1920s/1930s.  It's just more fun to play with the designs/iconography/aesthetics.

One potential problem problem with Indy 5 is who do you cast as the villains?

If it's not Nazi's (which is the ultimate get out of jail free card), then you run into the issue of offending some people. Like, even in Crystal Skull which had the Commies as the bad guys, the communist party in Russia got offended and called for a ban on the film.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 05-26-2020

(05-26-2020, 04:27 PM)mola ram Wrote:
(05-26-2020, 01:32 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: The Soviets in CRYSTAL SKULL could have been excellent and formidable bad guys, but Spielberg didn't want to commit to really going there like he did with the Nazis.  Don't muddy the waters with McCarthy/Red Scare commentary, just go for it.

As for the approach going forward, I can't deny that a big part of me wanted to see Ford and Spielberg give us one last adventure.  Now that Spielberg's out of the directing chair, I can't muster much enthusiasm for either a last hurrah with Ford OR a recasting.  The ideal way to transition should have been to do it GODFATHER PART II-style, with both Ford and his younger replacement taking part in a split-chronology story (and helmed by Spielberg).  Ease us in.  As it stands now, a completely new Indiana Jones without Spielberg directing would hold very little interest for me.

I do agree that, whatever they decide to do post-Ford, it should put the character back in the 1920s/1930s.  It's just more fun to play with the designs/iconography/aesthetics.

One potential problem problem with Indy 5 is who do you cast as the villains?

If it's not Nazi's (which is the ultimate get out of jail free card), then you run into the issue of offending some people. Like, even in Crystal Skull which had the Commies as the bad guys, the communist party in Russia got offended and called for a ban on the film.

That was my point earlier as well.  With Nazis being the bad guys, there's simply no controversy to be had.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 05-26-2020

And, obviously, China's probably not going to allow a film to be screened in which the bad guys are commies. Purely creatively, though, they could/should have been great villains.

As for who the villains could plausibly be in V, I'm a fan of the cult idea. Sure, we did it in TEMPLE OF DOOM, but I think going with weirdo Europeans bent on finding some occult artifact for evil purposes would be fun.

INDIANA JONES AND THE LORDS OF SUMMERISLE

INDIANA JONES AND THE SEASON OF THE WITCH

INDIANA JONES AND THE ANCIENT ONES


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Munson - 05-26-2020

Indy should meet Tarzan. That would be cool


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 05-26-2020

In other news, James Mangold speaks in an extremely broad and general way...

https://comicbook.com/movies/news/indiana-jones-5-james-mangold-logan-interview/

I’m already seeing coverage praising his comments, but they don’t make me particularly more hopeful than I was before I read them. When it comes to Indiana Jones I don’t want a reinvention, and I certainly don’t want anything close to a deconstruction. I also don’t need something with much of an emotional core, either.

But at least he’s clearly thinking deeply about the material, which is certainly better than not doing so.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 05-26-2020

(05-26-2020, 04:50 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: And, obviously, China's probably not going to allow a film to be screened in which the bad guys are commies.  Purely creatively, though, they could/should have been great villains.

As for who the villains could plausibly be in V, I'm a fan of the cult idea.  Sure, we did it in TEMPLE OF DOOM, but I think going with weirdo Europeans bent on finding some occult artifact for evil purposes would be fun.

INDIANA JONES AND THE LORDS OF SUMMERISLE

INDIANA JONES AND THE SEASON OF THE WITCH

INDIANA JONES AND THE ANCIENT ONES

INDIANA JONES AND THE CULT OF XENU


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Reasor - 05-26-2020

Ye Olde Timey Indy runs afoul of the Manson Family, failing for most of the movie's run to understand the danger he's in because he doesn't understand their groovy lingo.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - simbob - 05-27-2020

I still want that Indiana Jones as '50s B-movie sci-fi Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was meant to be but utterly failed at. At the very least you just do Temple of Doom again and swap in some Lovecraft cult. The idea of Indy being this kind of pulp figure that works his way through the genres of the era he's in is such a good and fun concept, but Crystal Skull falling on it's face with that first step probably killed it dead.

The weird thing about them totally dropping the ball on that is you can so easily take stuff like Prince of Darkness, Quatermass, The Thing, She, and Night of the Demon and drop a character like Indiana Jones into it.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 05-27-2020

(05-27-2020, 07:15 PM)simbob Wrote: The idea of Indy being this kind of pulp figure that works his way through the genres of the era he's in is such a good and fun concept

I think that's what Lucas had in mind as earlier as the third film. He originally wanted Indy investigating a haunted castle but Spielberg felt that concept was too similar to Poltergeist. He would say the same about Indy 4 featuring aliens after ID4 came out, to which Lucas replied "okay, now they're trans-dimensional beings".


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 05-27-2020

I still think "Indiana Jones investigates a spooky castle" would be a great thing to see.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - freeman - 05-27-2020

People would freak out and reject it. It would feel too much like Temple of Doom, too different, too many chances taken.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - simbob - 05-27-2020

People like Temple of Doom.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - freeman - 05-28-2020

(05-27-2020, 11:53 PM)simbob Wrote: People like Temple of Doom.

Oh I'm sorry, I guess I must have misremembered that entire life I've spent being told that Temple of Doom is "the bad one."


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Pither - 05-28-2020

While that was TEMPLE OF DOOM's reputation for a long time, we've now had over a decade of CRYSTAL SKULL taking the heat. Plus, when people speak fondly of TEMPLE OF DOOM, they tend to talk about the spooky stuff.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - freeman - 05-28-2020

When I talk fondly about Temple of Doom, I talk about basically everything.

Except for the poorly aged racial stuff!

That shot of Indiana saying "We're getting out of here..." (Turns around, pissed) "ALL of us." Which cuts to one of the more iconic shots of Indy in the entire trilogy with the mine cart light is SO fucking awesome. Harrison Ford is really great at being pissed off.

"SHORTY! Stop playing around with that kid and get down here!"