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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

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RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 06-15-2020

I don't think another Indy gets made until Ford announces his retirement or clearly says he's not doing it.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 06-15-2020

(06-15-2020, 10:41 AM)Belloq87 Wrote: But Lazenby wasn't miscast!

He was! And too young too, in that he came off too boyish with his youthful swagger, which was totally wrong for the OHMSS story.

(06-15-2020, 11:15 AM)Judas Booth Wrote: I blame John Glen more than I blame Roger Moore, but that's for a different thread.

I blame Cubby for not willing to let go of Moore at a certain point (OCTOPUSSY should have been the swan song). Just like I blame LucasFilm for falling into the notion that only a 78 year old Ford can play Indy.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 06-15-2020

Guys, hear me out...

George Lazenby as Indiana Jones.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Shreds - 06-15-2020

Lazenby is a better fit for Indy than for Bond.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - filmnerdjamie - 06-15-2020

You're all Goddamn crazy. Lazenby was great.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 06-15-2020

To Lazenby fans:

[Image: fbc7a7f08ee4463877268f5506d67aae.gif]


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 06-18-2020

Koepp was on a podcast recently (he's making rounds for YOU SHOULD HAVE LEFT), and INDY 5 came up. Pretty much a reiteration of what he's already said, but here's the quote:

Quote:I did several versions of it with Steven over a few years, and, you know, we got close several times, but they're complicated things to try to get everybody to agree on. And they're hard, to do good ones, as you can imagine, and some may attest. So I'm not on it anymore. When Steven left, it seemed like a good time to let James Mangold try his way. So I'm dying to see what he comes up with, but...they're exceptionally difficult. I hope they hit a good one.

Got close several times is interesting, and you wonder who the "everybody" is that needs satisfying. For the fourth movie it was famously difficult to get Lucas, Spielberg, and Ford to agree, and this time there is no Lucas, plus we have Ford in February touting the "very good script." Maybe their standards are high enough that "very good" isn't good enough, or maybe there are Disney masters to serve now.

Koepp was hired in the spring of 2016, and while it's clear he wasn't exclusively on this project the whole time, that's still four years between when he started this gig and when he departed for good. So it makes sense that he and Spielberg pursued "several versions" in that time. I'm already signing arjen up for the script reviews if they all get leaked some day.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - freeman - 06-18-2020

I blame Lucas exclusively for being the muck up for Crystal Skull. They got as far as having a great script before they were forced to gut and quarter that story, rebuild within the mutilated corpse left behind and add Mutt.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - simbob - 06-18-2020

What's the great Crystal Skull script?


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 06-18-2020

Some of us feel that Frank Darabont's CITY OF THE GODS script was the one they should have shot. It's crazy and shares certain high level story ideas with the finished product, but execution-wise it couldn't be more different. The PDF of his supposedly third and final draft is very easy to find.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - freeman - 06-18-2020

It's the same basic story, but just... Better. Better more competent execution. Better villains, better action set pieces, the biplane sequence would have blown the roof off if done right. Better humor better pacing, better execution of ideas that show up in the final film, like the two versions of Nuke town.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - hammerhead - 06-18-2020

Darabont's script has a terminal case of the cutes. But you can pick out stuff that made no sense in the final film but initially had narrative justifications.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 06-18-2020

Darabont's (available) draft is better in several aspects, weaker in several aspects. The plotting's better, Marion's a better-realized character, the action is generally better...

But, tonally, it's an absolute mess. And it contains what would have been the flat-out silliest, most ridiculous moment in the entire series if it had been filmed.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - freeman - 06-18-2020

The snake bit?  Lucas wanted giant 50's animals and that was Darabonts best solution.  It was cheesy, but I love the character work Darabont got out of it.  Indy tries to prove to Marion he's a changed man.  He no longer fears snakes... Until he has a traumatic encounter with one.  Then you get a great comedy beat where he sees a tiny snake on his pillow and LOSES it.  

The more Indiana tries to change, the more he stays the same.  Just how we like him.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - commodorejohn - 06-18-2020

Yeah, it's more "significantly better than what we got" than actually great. But then, it is significantly better than what we got, its own issues notwithstanding.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 06-18-2020

The snake sequence is awful.

Of course, it's also not good in CRYSTAL SKULL.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 06-18-2020

(06-18-2020, 10:51 AM)hammerhead Wrote: Darabont's script has a terminal case of the cutes. But you can pick out stuff that made no sense in the final film but initially had narrative justifications.

One being that there is an actual throughline to Indy's scrutiny by the governnent. In CRYSTAL SKULL it is just part of the general Red Scare set dressing and doesn't go anywhere, leaving us to just roll with Indy's reinstatement at the end. What changed, especially given that no evidence remained of Spalko's expedition or the Akator discovery? Did the Feds just lose interest?

I also like the Hitchockian vibe Darabont gives the Act I material when Indy is forced to avoid both the Russians and government agents while attempting to clear his name. Spielberg would have aced that stuff, and in design it's just more urgent and compelling compared to what they changed it to, with a fired Indy deciding to shuffle off to Europe before a greaser kid stops him to ask for help on his Mom's behalf. And this woman is a stranger as far as Indy knows, because Marion's identity is artificially forced to be an Act II reveal. It's all so limp. You feel much more invested in Indy's reasons for going to South America in the Darabont version. Instead of facing the electric chair, Indy feels like he goes to Peru in CRYSTAL SKULL because his calendar's empty.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 06-18-2020

More of the same from Koepp over at Uproxx, but this has always been a dilligent thread, so...

Quote:Why is it so difficult to crack an Indiana Jones 5 script? I obviously haven’t read yours so I have no idea why it isn’t being used. But why is it that all these scripts seem to come and go with that movie particularly?

[Laughs] If I knew!

Okay. Good point.

I don’t know. Look, they’re hard because the first one and the third one are incredibly beloved. The character’s indelible, and that’s an enormous amount of pressure. And I don’t think anybody ever wants do one that is less than… I think the last one had a lot of stuff that really worked and had some stuff that didn’t. I’m sure whatever was wrong was my fault. I’m not trying to blame anybody. But nobody wants to do it unless it’s spectacular. And spectacular is hard to come by. So I guess the short answer would be, “because it’s hard.”

That’s probably the right answer?

Yeah. I think that’s probably it.



RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Nooj - 06-18-2020

olord and commo can do it!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 06-18-2020

What if the script is otherwise perfect but they just couldn't agree on the Paramount dissolve gag? You don't want to drop the ball on that legacy.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Nooj - 06-18-2020

BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD!!!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - shan - 06-18-2020

(06-15-2020, 11:00 AM)Judas Booth Wrote: Don't make me destroy you.






RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - hammerhead - 06-18-2020

Hear me out.

We start with the classic Paramount logo. It dissolves into Sleeping Beauty's Castle. It's opening day at Disneyland, the Lincoln robot is running amok and we're off.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 06-18-2020

My logo dissolve solution has always been that they should create a version of the Lucasfilm logo that looks like it's etched or carved into a stone wall, with a similar carving of a mountain behind it. The Lucasfilm logo fades away, then the mountain dissolves into a real mountain.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - hammerhead - 06-18-2020

Paramount still distributes, right? I've lost track.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 06-18-2020

The story I am familiar with is that when Lucas hammered out his deal with Eisner in 1979, Paramount got distribution rights to five indiana Jones movies. After Disney acquired Lucasfilm, they had to drop a sack of money on them to secure the distribution rights to a fifth movie, and Paramount still gets some kind of participation.

So yes, Disney has distribution for the new movie, but for the purposes of tradition I'm sure something can be worked out as far as including the mountain in the logos. You have to hand it to Eisner on the original deal -- Paramount has been cashing in on Indy ever since. They still completely control distribution of the first four films, so the revenue from all those licensing deals with cable channels, Amazon, Netflix and the home video releases goes straight into their pockets.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 06-18-2020

I, unfortunately, do not see ANY way a Disney-distributed film will open with the proper Paramount logo.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Nooj - 06-18-2020

THE AVENGERS started with the paramount logo, right?


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 06-18-2020

Contractually, Paramount got to be featured as the on-screen distributor of Marvel films up through IRON MAN 3, even though Disney actually took over prior to that. I think the arrangement technically covered films whose productions originated while Marvel still had its distribution deal with Paramount.

So okay, sure, if such a contractual relationship already exists between Disney and Paramount on Indiana Jones, then fine. Maybe. My assumption was no such agreement exists, and since whatever version of INDY V ultimately gets made will have been developed entirely under Disney, I don't expect a new agreement to happen.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 06-18-2020

Maybe the film will open with the Paramount logo and then the camera will pull back to reveal Indiana Jones in a movie theater watching a Paramount movie.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Richard Dickson - 06-18-2020

I'd still love a final Ford Indy to end with the Grail Knight showing up telling him it's time for Indy to take his place.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 06-18-2020

(06-18-2020, 03:48 PM)Nooj Wrote: olord and commo can do it!

You mock, but if push came to shove I could just check my fucking ego at the door and adapt the wonderful Fate of Atlantis story.



(06-18-2020, 05:48 PM)Richard Dickson Wrote: I'd still love a final Ford Indy to end with the Grail Knight showing up telling him it's time for Indy to take his place.

Ford is only a year or two away from being as old as Robert Eddison was when Last Crusade was filmed.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Nooj - 06-18-2020

(06-18-2020, 05:54 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(06-18-2020, 03:48 PM)Nooj Wrote: olord and commo can do it!

You mock, but if push came to shove I could just check my fucking ego at the door and adapt the wonderful Fate of Atlantis story.
I'd love to see it!
talk to sternhart and costa!

but remember, you can chuck your ego all you want... but if the people you're working for don't like it, you're outta luck!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - freeman - 06-18-2020

(06-18-2020, 05:48 PM)Richard Dickson Wrote: I'd still love a final Ford Indy to end with the Grail Knight showing up telling him it's time for Indy to take his place.

What a horrific fate for poor Indiana.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 06-18-2020

I still say stick him and Marion in Shangri-la to give them a happy ending.