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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

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- arjen rudd - 03-23-2016

A[quote name="Belloq87" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/350#post_4035733"]

That all sounds fine to me...
[/quote]

I kinda agree. What do people fucking want here?


- bailey - 03-23-2016

Them to leave well enough alone.




- agentsands77 - 03-23-2016

AI like the idea of one more Spielberg/Ford flick to make up for KINGDOM.

I don't like the idea of this becoming just another franchise.


- virtanen - 03-23-2016

Two words: Extended <edit> Expanded Universe.



Young Indiana Jones



Really Young Indiana Jones (or Indiana Toddler)



The Adventures of Henry Jones sr And His Kickass Secret Agent Wife Who's Pregnant



The Sallah Chronicles



Arnold Ernst Toht Begins



The Ark of The Covenant Prequel Trilogy




- Stale Elvis - 03-23-2016

AWe could have a spin-off with that fat boozer from Marion's bar who gets into all kinds of whacky hijinks while continuously shitfaced.


- fatherdude - 03-23-2016

I'm fascinated to know what's motivating Spielberg here.  Some of you have been hoping that he's approaching this with something to prove, but what's the evidence?  Of CRYSTAL SKULL he says, "I’m very happy with the movie. I always have been."  I believe Koepp retrospectively expressed pride in his work as well, even calling it an appropriate finale.



Spielberg turned on TEMPLE rather quickly, so I don't think this is a case of him being afraid to voice is true opinion.  He's happy with the fourth movie.  So is this about getting to definitely close out the series he began?




- agentsands77 - 03-23-2016

AI think Spielberg plays nice about KINGDOM to spare George. Spielberg has been open about the fact that he made it to appease Lucas, and the context of that "very happy" quote is an extended attempt to shift blame away for the film's reputation away from Lucas and onto himself.

Not that I believe Spielberg is lying, entirely. I'm sure he does have some affection for the film. But Spielberg is keenly aware that many folks didn't love the movie, and, as much as he may claim to be happy with it, he's also never hid the fact that he didn't really like or understand KINGDOM's story. Spielberg knows that another film will need to prove itself in the eyes of the public.

So if KINGDOM was a "one for George" film, INDY V will be a "one for Steven." We'll see exactly what that means in 2019.


- arjen rudd - 03-23-2016

AWell, but there's simply no way he didn't see the South Park episode. Or hear what the Internet thinks. He seems quite tuned into all that.

Added to this, there's just no other reason for this to get made. Steven Spielberg, the wealthiest, most successful film director that has ever lived, does not need a hit. There's a reason he wants to make this film.

Although one possibility I'm considering is that this could be the swan song for him and/or Ford. Nailing one of these on his way out the door would be pretty badass.


- fraid uh noman - 03-23-2016

A[quote name="Agentsands77" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/360#post_4035854"]I like the idea of one more Spielberg/Ford flick to make up for KINGDOM.

I don't like the idea of this becoming just another franchise.[/quote]
We don't see totally eye to eye often...but we're 100% in agreement here. This is EXACTLY my feelings on it..


- Misfit - 03-23-2016

While we're all here, I'm going to tell my favorite story about CRYSTAL SKULL. I saw it twice in the theater (don't look at me like that, I know some of you did too). First time was with my buddies, the second time I took my parents, who go to the movies every five years or so at the most. Dad and I have always loved watching Indy together. During the campus chase scene, Dad turns to me and says "I had that same car the Russians are driving!" He's saying all this in a very conversational tone of voice, not even trying to whisper. The closest people were several rows away, so I just let him go. "The one I had was actually the model from the year before. The way you'd open the trunk was turning a handle..." It was great.




- hammerhead - 03-23-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post

Added to this, there's just no other reason for this to get made. Steven Spielberg, the wealthiest, most successful film director that has ever lived, does not need a hit. There's a reason he wants to make this film.


Spielberg did talk quite a bit a ways back about how even with his clout Lincoln was almost a cable movie. He's not an automatic green-light machine like he was in the Amblin days.




- agentsands77 - 03-23-2016

AYeah, I suspect Spielberg may just want to do this because it's an easy greenlight and he gets to do one last film with a friend.

But, a few years ago, Spielberg did say that he and Lucas were agreed on the direction for INDY V, so he's been thinking about this film on and off for a while now.


- fraid uh noman - 03-23-2016

ASpielberg/Ford/Indy firing on all cylinders one more time is a BLESSING..


- fatherdude - 03-23-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Misfit View Post
 

While we're all here, I'm going to tell my favorite story about CRYSTAL SKULL. I saw it twice in the theater (don't look at me like that, I know some of you did too).



I don't begrudge anyone this.  CRYSTAL SKULL is a very fascinating kind of bad movie, because all the stuff that seemed like the most logical concerns going in (Ford's age, pulling off the move to the 50s), ended up being non-issues, and it was the most basic shit that they got so very wrong.  It's a remarkable movie in its lethargy, self-disinterest, and pathological insistence on missing every opportunity available to it.  I've watched it many times for purely academic purposes.




- fraid uh noman - 03-23-2016

AI wish to god I could love Crystal Skull. I genuinely tried. I envy those who do.

But hell....I'm not even that crazy about Last Crusade anymore (though it trounces Crystal Skull without blinking).

I want this last one to fit more with Raiders and Temple of Doom. I want THAT feeling again..


- agentsands77 - 03-23-2016

A[quote name="Fraid uh noman" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/390#post_4035900"]I want this last one to fit more with Raiders and Temple of Doom. I want THAT feeling again..[/quote]
That's almost certainly not in the cards, I'm afraid.


- fatherdude - 03-23-2016

It's a shame, because I think a darker and more cerebral (okay, TEMPLE wasn't cerebral) story is an organic place to take the fifth installment.  If you've got Ford, the smartest thing a screenwriter could do is embrace Indy's mortality and root the story and the artifact in that, much like the Grail was used a metaphor for father and son discovering each other.



Don't do the Fountain of Youth though.  Pirates of the Caribbean did it fairly recently and setting the movie in Central America keeps us in the western hemisphere again.




- fraid uh noman - 03-23-2016

A[quote name="Agentsands77" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/390#post_4035904"]
That's almost certainly not in the cards, I'm afraid.[/quote]
Oh I'm not counting on it. I gotta lot of hope in me for the things I love....but also enough cynical common sense to temper it.

If it is to Indy what TFA was to Star Wars (minus the whole torch passing aspect of course) I'll be very pleased. I genuinely feel sorry for the folks that didn't get the feeling from TFA that I did. Don't get me wrong...i can certainly see what problems they had with it. But those things didn't matter to me cuz the movie just made me so so happy. If I get something similar from Indy V, I'll be one happy camper..


- carnotaur3 - 03-23-2016

AI think perhaps the most annoying thing about KOTCS is its insistence to drag on and score the hit of everybody's punches... in every scene.


- agentsands77 - 03-23-2016

A[quote name="FatherDude" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/390#post_4035908"]
Don't do the Fountain of Youth though.  Pirates of the Caribbean did it fairly recently and setting the movie in Central America keeps us in the western hemisphere again.
[/quote]
Whatever it is, it's important that the relic inspires some awe. You'll never again get another Arc of the Covenant, but whatever they choose should still inspire respect. It should feel sacred. Excalibur, for example, would tick that box (and, if you'll let me get fan-fiction-y, you could even tie Excalibur into the Garden of Eden, suggesting that it was the sword used by the angel guarding the Garden until the Great Flood buried the Garden; this is a bit too CRUSADE-y, but maybe Excalibur could be used to locate where the Garden of Eden remains in some ancient cavern). What drives the first three films is that Indy touches some kind of holiness beyond conventional scientific categories.

The crystal skull angle wasn't all bad and could have been done better, but even in the best case scenario it would never inspire a sense of the sacred.


- fraid uh noman - 03-23-2016

AExcalibur would suit me just fine..


- Stale Elvis - 03-23-2016

I absolutely love Raiders - it's the best of the bunch by a country mile, but out of the original three it's the one I watch the least. I watch Last Crusade the most, dunno why maybe its the score, maybe its because it takes me back to 1989, maybe because it's just good fun.



I want this new movie to be more like Raiders in the way that Raiders wasn't part of a franchise - it was a stand-alone that worked on its own merits and became a classic. As the franchise progressed we got moments of 'Oh he's Indy, so we need to do this' and 'hey, wasn't it great when we did this the last movie well here it is again!'



I want this new movie to be another stand-alone - forget it's part of a franchise with checkboxes to fill. Introduce us to this new character of Indiana Jones, an ageing university professor who also travels the world looking for ancient artefacts and gets in scrapes along the way. Forget it has a legacy - just give us a great stand-alone action adventure. Shoot it in the real world with real stunts. Make us believe in adventure again.




- agentsands77 - 03-23-2016

A[quote name="Stale Elvis" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/390#post_4035920"]I absolutely love Raiders - it's the best of the bunch by a country mile, but out of the original three it's the one I watch the least. I watch Last Crusade the most, dunno why maybe its the score, maybe its because it takes me back to 1989, maybe because it's just good fun.

I want this new movie to be more like Raiders in the way that Raiders wasn't part of a franchise - it was a stand-alone that worked on its own merits and became a classic. As the franchise progressed we got moments of 'Oh he's Indy, so we need to do this' and 'hey, wasn't it great when we did this the last movie well here it is again!'

I want this new movie to be another stand-alone - forget it's part of a franchise with checkboxes to fill. Introduce us to this new character of Indiana Jones, an ageing university professor who also travels the world looking for ancient artefacts and gets in scrapes along the way. Forget it has a legacy - just give us a great stand-alone action adventure. Shoot it in the real world with real stunts. Make us believe in adventure again.
[/quote]
Sounds good to me.


- mondguy - 03-23-2016

'Last Crusade' can come across as a return-to-roots type movie after 'Temple of Doom', but it's so damned good on its own.  It nails the flavor and tone of Indiana Jones, and the Tank sequence almost...almost equals the Truck Chase.  From "They have him, in the belly of that steel beast" to when we push in to Indy's horrified expression after seeing the approaching chasm...action movie perfection.




- Stale Elvis - 03-23-2016

The maguffin needs to be a biblical artefact - the thing is Indy's a scientist - "Nothing shocks me, I'm a scientist." So whatever artefact he looks for he has to believe it's a simple archaeological treasure then only at the end is it's real true not-of-this-earth power revealed.



That was one of the issues with the aliens inter-dimensional beings - they could be explained by science - Indy was never really out of his wheelhouse there.



And they were just fucking stupid too.




- fraid uh noman - 03-23-2016

ARaiders is obviously the crown jewel of the series but Temple of Doom is just a hair away from being just as good, in my opinion, simply because it set out to be very different than it's predecessor and works like gangbusters top to bottom. Pure joy on film..


- agentsands77 - 03-23-2016

A[quote name="Stale Elvis" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/390#post_4035923"]
That was one of the issues with the aliens inter-dimensional beings - they could be explained by science - Indy was never really out of his wheelhouse there.

And they were just fucking stupid too.
[/quote]
If they'd been reconfigured as creepy, Lovecraftian deities lurking in another dimension, they could have been cool. It's easy to imagine a creepy Lovecraft story about an ancient, weird skull that drives men insane and has psychic connections to evil deities.


- mondguy - 03-23-2016

I think my first example of geek-culture-shock-on-the-interwebs was when I found out not liking TOD was a thing.  I had honestly never heard that expressed anywhere until around '96-'97




- fatherdude - 03-23-2016

Quote:


Originally Posted by mondguy View Post
 

'Last Crusade' can come across as a return-to-roots type movie after 'Temple of Doom', but it's so damned good on its own.  It nails the flavor and tone of Indiana Jones, and the Tank sequence almost...almost equals the Truck Chase.  From "They have him, in the belly of that steel beast" to when we push in to Indy's horrified expression after seeing the approaching chasm...action movie perfection.



Agreed.  Whatever story weaknesses LAST CRUSADE had was completely balanced out by a present and engaged Spielberg.  His heart is in the father/son material and he makes it work like gangbusters.  It also helps that the script is solid, with memorable lines ("I should have mailed it to the Marx Brothers!  "No ticket!") and moments of actual pathos.  CRYSTAL SKULL had nothing of the sort.



And while you can already see the action sequences becoming a bit tired in LAST CRUSADE (revisiting the capsize of the Coronado and the Venice chase is very eye-opening, in my experience), that fucking awesome tank chase picks up the spare.  CRYSTAL SKULL's jungle chase, inescapably the equivalent set piece in that movie, is awful by comparison.



All that praise for LAST CRUSADE notwithstanding...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Stale Elvis View Post
 

The maguffin needs to be a biblical artifact



...this is wrong-headed.  Just because CRYSTAL SKULL lacked any considered ideas doesn't invalidate the ideas themselves.  It was the storytelling, straight-up, that failed CRYSTAL SKULL, not superficial things like the origin of the artifact.  This is a critical point for me because the true problem with CRYSTAL SKULL has gotten shrouded over the years with all the whines of aliens, fridges, prairie dogs and monkeys.




- Stale Elvis - 03-23-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post


If they'd been reconfigured as creepy, Lovecraftian deities lurking in another dimension, they could have been cool. It's easy to imagine a creepy Lovecraft story about an ancient, weird skull that drives men insane and has psychic connections to evil deities.

Nope - it has to be set in real antiquity - a real god from either our own or another world culture. It has to have that sense of thousands of years of legend.



Nothing made up in Spielberg's office or cribbed from another author. It has to be a real-world religious relic.




- fraid uh noman - 03-23-2016

AThe macguffin needs to inspire AWE. That'd be enough for me..


- arjen rudd - 03-23-2016

Fuck you all, the only thing it HAS to be is gold colored, and approximately breadbox sized. Otherwise, no dice.




- fraid uh noman - 03-23-2016

AI just realized your avatar is holding one of them..


- Stale Elvis - 03-23-2016

AI thought it was Jesus taking a selfie.


- fraid uh noman - 03-23-2016

A[quote name="Stale Elvis" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/390#post_4035946"]I thought it was Jesus taking a selfie.[/quote]
Indiana Jones and the Shroud of Turin!