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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

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RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 09-25-2020

My worry would be the opposite. I don't want Ford giving up substantial screen time to his successor in his final Indy film.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - commodorejohn - 09-25-2020

Yeah, arguing that Indy represents a power fantasy as opposed to just a fantasy is ignoring some key components of how he's presented as a character: gets the crap kicked out of him on a regular basis, wins through guile far more than brute strength, is perpetually undercut in his love life (by his own dad, no less!) and has essentially no agency for the majority of his climaxes. There's definitely aspects of the character and the films that we can fantasize about (we'd all like a life as cool as his, and his sheer tenacity is probably the closest thing to a true masculine projection-fantasy about the character,) but he's not a late-'80s Schwarzenegger/Stallone cartoon.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - freeman - 09-25-2020

Being vulnerable does not disqualify John McClane and Indiana Jones from being power fantasies. Superman is arguably the most straight forward power fantasy metaphor ever and he constantly gets clowned on by kryptonite.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - hammerhead - 09-25-2020

(09-25-2020, 10:56 AM)freeman Wrote: Do I have to remind you of when Indy was supposed to be around 65 and he won a fist fight with a giant Russian guy not through wisdom or wit or even luck, but by literally winning the punching contest?

I thought the conceit was that Indy's age parallels the 20th Century. So he'd be in his late 50s in KotCS. But Stunt Inflation happens in all franchises-- the lightsaber duels in the SW prequels aren't more elaborate than the OT because they take place earlier, but because they were filmed later.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - farsight - 09-25-2020

(09-25-2020, 11:23 AM)freeman Wrote: Being vulnerable does not disqualify John McClane and Indiana Jones from being power fantasies.  Superman is arguably the most straight forward power fantasy metaphor ever and he constantly gets clowned on by kryptonite.

Having a vulnerability isn't the same as being vulnerable.

McClane and Indy, when well-written, are characters we root for -because- we know that in a direct confrontation with their enemies, they would lose.

When Indy and McClane fight the Nazis/terrorists directly, they get the shit kicked out of them. They win by outsmarting their foes and being too stubborn to die. One of Indy's biggest moments is being challenged to a duel by a more skilled fighter... and shooting him dead.

The fun of those movies isn't in watching a power fantasy; it's in watching an everyman fantasy. When the films (especially Die Hard 4+) forget that, they fail.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Amos - 09-25-2020

Those first three are power fantasies, for sure.

White settler power fantasies at that.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-25-2020

Okay, we can go ahead and nuke this thread from orbit now.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-25-2020

DIE HARD 4 was fine.

DIE HARD 5? I’d let it die.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - freeman - 09-25-2020

Indiana Jones should NEVER straight up win a fist fight with the henchman, least of all when he's an old fucking man.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 09-25-2020

(09-25-2020, 07:52 PM)Overlord Wrote: Okay, we can go ahead and nuke this thread from orbit now.

What's interesting is the infection from this thread has bewildering spread to the West Side Story thread. Because why not??


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Paul755 - 09-26-2020

(09-25-2020, 07:57 PM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: DIE HARD 4 was fine.

DIE HARD 5? I’d let it die.

Yeah, Die Hard 4 is fine until the very end when McClain starts surfing on the fighter jet.

Die Hard 5 you can’t just let it die. It needs to be nuked from orbit and any have remains shot into the sun.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - cd underbelly - 09-26-2020

Die Hard 6: Just Die Already


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - ska oreo - 09-26-2020

I think McClane and Indy are two completely different characters. And even in the first Die Hard, McClane shows a nigh super-human tolerance for pain, where as Jones, while a brawler, is very much not an expert in hand to hand combat or could believably take out an entire room of Nazis on his own.

I've said this before, but I think Die Hard 4 works because its a natural progression for John McClane: How does the same shit keep happening to the same person? Oh right, because he totally is a superhero.

Also Die Hard 5 absolutely needs to die in a fire.

Also: John McClane is totally a power fantasy. Maybe not exactly like Superman, but the 80s macho man whose just trying to do right by his wife and takes down an entire army of terrorist in the process? How is that not a power fantasy?


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - freeman - 09-26-2020

He's literally one man alone with no shoes because he had to kill the one terrorist with feet smaller than his sisters.  He's up against a small army of terrorists completely alone, an entire building full of rich and powerful yuppies are relying on him, the FBI is incompetent and he's a sassy and funny guy.  Being relatable and vulnerable, bleeding and feeling pain does not undo the scenario of die hard basically the ultimate everyman power fantasy.  If anything it adds to it and makes it more attractively relatable.  Who hasn't day dreamed at least once about being John McClane?

Same with Indy, only Indiana lives an exotic travelogue life but he's also an every man power fantasy.  Just in this case it's the "ADVEEEEENTURE!!!" fantasy.

You guys should have watched me play through Uncharted 4.  I don't know how many times I shouted "THIS IS AWESOME" or "ADDDDVEEEEEENTUUUUUURE!" but it was a TON.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-26-2020

Forget it, Freeman. It's TroubleCityTown.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - atomtastic - 09-26-2020

I personally would not like to be John McClane and would find fighting terrorists very unpleasant.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-26-2020

(09-26-2020, 04:39 PM)atomtastic Wrote: I personally would not like to be John McClane and would find fighting terrorists  very unpleasant.

Look into TRT.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Jones - 09-27-2020

I must have said this before, but a skilled writer/director should be able to find a way to boomark an adventure story with Ford completing a quest that a new younger actor could start. The younger actor can do most of the heavy lifting, Ford can finish it out and it would work as a hand-off to the younger actor for any future sequels, still set in the 30's and so gets the advantage of having Nazi's as the bad guys.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-27-2020

The geriatrics in charge have no energy or enthusiasm for the property but neither will they relinquish creative control


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - hammerhead - 09-27-2020

(09-27-2020, 06:28 PM)Jones Wrote: I must have said this before, but a skilled writer/director should be able to find a way to boomark an adventure story with Ford completing a quest that a new younger actor could start.  The younger actor can do most of the heavy lifting, Ford can finish it out and it would work as a hand-off to the younger actor for any future sequels, still set in the 30's and so gets the advantage of having Nazi's as the bad guys.

That's the opening sequence of Last Crusade. Tragically, River Phoenix was unavailable to continue.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - barry woodward - 09-27-2020

There's always Anthony Ingruber.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Jones - 09-27-2020

(09-27-2020, 09:01 PM)hammerhead Wrote: That's the opening sequence of Last Crusade. Tragically, River Phoenix was unavailable to continue.

Well, I think River was a little too young (at the time) to take over.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - hammerhead - 09-27-2020

Nah, he was perfect and we're living in the darkest timeline.

Meanwhile, Legal Eagle just dropped a fun video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ezHMpZsyAs






RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-27-2020

(09-27-2020, 09:03 PM)barry woodward Wrote: There's always Anthony Ingruber.

Faith in TC restored.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-27-2020

That’s even worse than Pratt.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Nooj - 09-27-2020

yes give it to ingruber!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - freeman - 09-27-2020

Chris Hemsworth. While he's still young enough.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-27-2020

Chris Pine!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - commodorejohn - 09-27-2020

Chris Christie! That's twice the Chris-per-person!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mola ram - 09-28-2020

(09-27-2020, 10:13 PM)hammerhead Wrote: Nah, he was perfect and we're living in the darkest timeline.

Meanwhile, Legal Eagle just dropped a fun video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ezHMpZsyAs




Though this video kind of falls apart because those laws didn't exist in the 1920-1930's, and American law obviously doesn't apply to foreign countries


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - freeman - 09-28-2020

I believe what you meant to say was...

"OBJECTION!!!"


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-28-2020

Antony Starr first choice, Chris Pratt second.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-28-2020

Seriously, WHY Chris Pratt??? There’s nothing about him that screams Indy!!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 09-28-2020

I like Pratt, but I would not buy him as a college professor in the 1930s.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - huntertarantino - 09-28-2020

Antony Starr's too busy doing fucked up Bizarro Snyderman antics! Besides, I'd much rather have him fighting Keanu Reeves at the end of John Wick 4 into the first 15 minutes of John Wick 5.