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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

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RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - rexbanner - 04-12-2021

The Mummy's superb - does what it's trying to do flawlessly, and is an obvious descendant of the Indiana Jones films while not trying to be them.

The real question is, which is better: The Mummy Returns or Crystal Skull?


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - freeman - 04-12-2021

Crystal skull is better than the Mummy Returns.

Not saying much.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 04-12-2021

That's a real Sophie's choice, but I'm gonna go with MUMMY RETURNS because the museum resurrection/bus chase sequence in RETURNS beats anything in CRYSTAL SKULL.

Otherwise, they're both pretty bad.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - jhp1608 - 04-12-2021

Mummy Returns is better on so many levels it isn’t even funny.

Was there ever a chance that Verbinski was in the frame for this? Rewatching the Pirates movies recently and the (vastly underrated) Lone Ranger and I’d like to see his take on an Indy film. Or a Star War.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - rexbanner - 04-12-2021

(04-12-2021, 11:26 AM)jhp1608 Wrote: Mummy Returns is better on so many levels it isn’t even funny.

Having thought it over, I'd definitely rather watch Mummy Returns. It was obviously made with more enthusisasm, it's full of cool fantasy ideas (often poorly executed, but still), and it's got early 2000s Rachel Weisz.

Is Mummy Returns better? Also probably yes.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 04-12-2021

The Scorpion King FX at the climax of "The Mummy Returns" were pretty janky, even in 2001.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 04-12-2021

THE MUMMY RETURNS > KOTCS. Absolutely.

And I say that as a person who doesn't think that KOTCS is an abomination. It's the least of the 4 current movies for sure but it's also not a crime against cinema. If it had not been an Indiana Jones film and had been directed by Joe Johnston or Philip Noyce, it'd be hailed as a pretty decent Indiana Jones riff. The fact that it IS an Indiana Jones movie saddles it with a lot of baggage that it just can't lift.

While THE MUMMY RETURNS is a much lesser movie than the first one (which is nearly perfect), it gets a lot right. As has been mentioned by many, the double decker bus fight is absolutely first rate. I'd also cite the absolutely amazing ongoing chemistry between Weisz, Frazer, and Hannah as being thoroughly entertaining to behold in most of their scenes together. I wish the actress playing Ankh-su-namun (or whatever) was more capable as a lot of the scenes between her and Weisz are pretty strong. With a bit more time to polish the special effects, I think the film would be held in higher regard.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 04-12-2021

I like how Weisz became a ninja in Returns.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 04-12-2021

Apart from the unpolished special effects, I think THE MUMMY RETURNS has two big problems at a fundamental level:
1. The kid is terrible. I wish the kid hadn't been there in the first place but whatever. As an actor, the kid is simply not good. He's grating as hell and I can totally sympathize when the henchmen want to kill him.
2. There's no 'Beni' character. It can't be overstated just how much of an asset Beni was to the first film. Not only was he really effective comic relief, he was also integral to the plot in really fun ways that were totally character driven.

It's funny to look at the first MUMMY film objectively. There are so many ways that the film could have absolutely gone completely wrong. One bad decision could have made the film unwatchable.

(04-12-2021, 12:21 PM)bradito Wrote: I like how Weisz became a ninja in Returns.

Actually, I DO like this.  You can tell that Rachel trained her ass off for the film considering the amazing physique that she had.  She also did almost all of her own stunts in the fight sequences between her and Ankh-su-nawhateverthespelling.  I think keeping her as a mawkish librarian for the second film would have been a mistake.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 04-12-2021

The entire reincarnation aspect of RETURNS is dumber than shit and should've been excised. Even in 2001, having Rachel Weisz portraying an Egyptian was in bad taste. Imhotep wanting revenge and being brought back by a murderous cult was enough. We didn't need more motivation or inciting elements.

Dump the kid, eliminate the wholly unnecessary past life garbage for Evelyn and Rick, and fix the effects for the finale. You'd have a solidly good successor with those changes.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 04-12-2021

The reincarnation aspect I was fine with.  As to having Weisz play an Egyptian, it obviously wasn't present in the first movie and, since it was ret-conned in there, it wouldn't make sense to cast an actual Egyptian woman in there for the flashback scenes.  Also, unless I'm mistaken, the lady playing Ankh-su-fuckit was actually Venezuelan?  Something like that.  Regardless, this wasn't as bad as casting ScarJo in the GHOST IN THE SHELL MOVIE or anything like that.

Still, the big mistake was not having Rick and Evie go after the other Universal Monsters.  That would have been an amazing franchise.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 04-12-2021

"Returns" has your classic "And then..." script.

And then... this happens
And then... this happens
Etc.

It's not so much a story but a collection of events that are hastily glued together. It's not so much Stephen Summers' fault. I believe the sequel was greenlit after the first film's huge opening weekend and it was slotted for a Summer '01 release. So it's another case of an impending release date dictating how "finished" the script is. At any rate, it worked for me the first few times I watched it, but it doesn't hold up as well as the original.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 04-12-2021

I just hated the needless complication and retconning. The film didn't need it, and it felt very forced.

Hadn't even thought of Evie and Rick becoming monster hunters. If they could've kept the balance of horror, comedy, and action, that would've been great.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 04-12-2021

They should've done a time travel one where Rick and Evie go back to ancient Egypt via magic or something and have to battle Imhotep during his heyday.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 04-12-2021

(04-12-2021, 12:44 PM)bradito Wrote: "Returns" has your classic "And then..." script.

And then... this happens
And then... this happens
Etc.

It's not so much a story but a collection of events that are hastily glued together. It's not so much Stephen Summers' fault. I believe the sequel was greenlit after the first film's huge opening weekend and it was slotted for a Summer '01 release. So it's another case of an impending release date dictating how "finished" the script is. At any rate, it worked for me the first few times I watched it, but it doesn't hold up as well as the original.

If memory serves, once the first film opened huge, the execs called up Stephen Sommers on Monday and said 'we want another one now.'

A big problem with the film is that it has too many notes.  There's too much going on and it all is so hectic and busy that it gets overwhelming and boring.  Dialing back just a little bit, polishing the script to make it more story driven rather than event driven, and allowing more time for the special effects to have a proper polish would have done wonders.  As it is, it's not as bad as its reputation.

(04-12-2021, 12:44 PM)MichaelM Wrote: I just hated the needless complication and retconning. The film didn't need it, and it felt very forced.

Hadn't even thought of Evie and Rick becoming monster hunters. If they could've kept the balance of horror, comedy, and action, that would've been great.

Lose the kid entirely.
Have Rick and Evie go back to England with their newfound wealth and open an estate.  Use that as the base of operations for the rest of the franchise.  Keep Ardeth Bey if you want...having him square off with Dracula could be a hoot.

THE VAMPIRE
THE WOLFMAN
THE MONSTER

Culminate in a big RICK AND EVIE v THE UNIVERSAL MONSTERS free for all...think VAN HELSING but with likeable characters and a cohesive plot where you're working with iterations of the characters that have been established in the prior films.  Do it AVENGERS style.  This film would have been a massive hit.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 04-12-2021

It's been years since I've seen it, but I remember that first the bad guys kidnap Evie... AND THEN, after she's rescued, the bad guys kidnap their annoying moppet kid.

Pick one person to kidnap per movie, please and thank you.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 04-12-2021

They took the kid because he'd snapped the Magic Bracelet™ on and it couldn't be removed.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 04-12-2021

At any rate, there are too many kidnappings for one film.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 04-12-2021

Wow, you MUMMY RETURNS apologists


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - first class 782 - 04-12-2021

Saw a little bit of Returns this weekend via cable. Weisz is eye-melting in it.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 04-12-2021

Take that, Bembridge scholars!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - rexbanner - 04-12-2021

(04-12-2021, 12:23 PM)Judas Booth Wrote:
(04-12-2021, 12:21 PM)bradito Wrote: I like how Weisz became a ninja in Returns.

Actually, I DO like this.  You can tell that Rachel trained her ass off for the film considering the amazing physique that she had.  She also did almost all of her own stunts in the fight sequences between her and Ankh-su-nawhateverthespelling.  I think keeping her as a mawkish librarian for the second film would have been a mistake.

Disagree. Bumbling nerd Evie >>>>> sexified Evie. 

I mean, Weisz is magnetic in both films, but I remember seeing Returns when I was 12 and it was the first time I clocked how radical a difference make-up, hair, and wardrobe could make to a person.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - commodorejohn - 04-12-2021

I just want to know why nobody who gets reincarnated in movies ever ends up in an actually different body. Other than, you know, having to pay another actor.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 04-12-2021

Those cheapskates!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 04-12-2021

(04-12-2021, 01:26 PM)rexbanner Wrote:
(04-12-2021, 12:23 PM)Judas Booth Wrote:
(04-12-2021, 12:21 PM)bradito Wrote: I like how Weisz became a ninja in Returns.

Actually, I DO like this.  You can tell that Rachel trained her ass off for the film considering the amazing physique that she had.  She also did almost all of her own stunts in the fight sequences between her and Ankh-su-nawhateverthespelling.  I think keeping her as a mawkish librarian for the second film would have been a mistake.

Disagree. Bumbling nerd Evie >>>>> sexified Evie. 

I mean, Weisz is magnetic in both films, but I remember seeing Returns when I was 12 and it was the first time I clocked how radical a difference make-up, hair, and wardrobe could make to a person.

She is a beautiful woman, no matter what.  I just really admire the work that she did for RETURNS in terms of physical training and so forth.  Her physique is magnifique.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mola ram - 04-12-2021

(04-12-2021, 12:32 PM)MichaelM Wrote: The entire reincarnation aspect of RETURNS is dumber than shit and should've been excised. Even in 2001, having Rachel Weisz portraying an Egyptian was in bad taste. Imhotep wanting revenge and being brought back by a murderous cult was enough. We didn't need more motivation or inciting elements.

Dump the kid, eliminate the wholly unnecessary past life garbage for Evelyn and Rick, and fix the effects for the finale. You'd have a solidly good successor with those changes.

Was accurate race casting for Egyptians a thing back in 2001?

Though they did have Omid Djalili, an actual egyptian playing an Arab jailer with every negative stereotype of Arabs rolled into one.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 04-12-2021

Oded Fehr, an Israeli actor, played Ardeth Bey
Arnold Vosloo, a South African actor, played Imhotep

Any cries of anguish over those bits of casting?


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 04-12-2021

Evie upping her fight game would make sense - I'd have no problems believing Rick would teach her some moves.

I don't like ninja Evie, though. The Matrix's influence was far too heavy.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 04-12-2021

There's some glorious pre-Snyder speed ramping in "Returns."


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Fafhrd - 04-12-2021

(04-12-2021, 01:37 PM)MichaelM Wrote: Evie upping her fight game would make sense - I'd have no problems believing Rick would teach her some moves.

I don't like ninja Evie, though. The Matrix's influence was far too heavy.

It felt a lot more 'Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon' influenced than Matrix influenced to me at the time.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 04-12-2021

You say potato, I say poh-tah-toh.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mondguy - 04-12-2021

(04-12-2021, 01:37 PM)MichaelM Wrote: Evie upping her fight game would make sense - I'd have no problems believing Rick would teach her some moves.

I don't like ninja Evie, though. The Matrix's influence was far too heavy.

That was pretty much every action scene through 2003.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 04-12-2021

Yes, the days of "Matrix"-inspired fisticuffs eventually gave way to that horrendous trend of "What am I looking at here?"-inspired fisticuffs.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - arjen rudd - 04-12-2021

It seems inevitable I’ll be watching Mummy Returns again. Thanks for that, guys.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 04-12-2021

It's better than the third one!