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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

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- user_32 - 06-10-2016

The Lost World is more his version of King Kong.




- commodorejohn - 06-10-2016

A[quote name="User_32" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/600#post_4081095"]The Lost World is more his version of King Kong.[/quote]
Or, y'know, The Lost World.


- Stale Elvis - 06-10-2016

AWatched ToD for the first time at home for about 15 years last night - saw it in the theatre about 2 years ago and it washed right over me, but I've been mainlining the Indy soundtrack collection at work for the past week so had a real craving for it.

It was never my favourite of the original three. I always found it a bit too mean without any payoff for being mean, plus a tad disjointed - there's a scene where Indy is thrown in a cell and as soon as Shorty finishes speaking, one of the slave kids starts up "please let me die. I pray to shiva..." it's just so disjointed and weirdly edited that that kid comes out of nowhere.

That being said, because I left it so long to watch I Really. Fucking. Enjoyed. Every. Minute. It's never ever going to be on par with RotLA (although it's part of the franchise, it's still a standalone) but I enjoyed it as much as TLC (there's a fair bit of nostalgia tied into TLC as 89 was a great movie summer). Certain little things I loved:

  1. Kate Capshaw is nowhere near as annoying as I remember. Shrill certainly, but not overly annoying.
  2. Neither is Short Round
  3. Willie's little stumble and smile at the camera during her dance routine. Nice save, doll.
  4. The dance routine in general - when it opens up into a full Old Hollywood stage production does anyone notice? It's all so seamless that you hardly notice that the club isn't that big and for a few seconds the film drifts into a fantasy world.
  5. Raft = parachute. This never bothered me. It bothers me even less after 20 years of Internet bitching about it.
  6. the crazy haired Indian guy - his acting alwayswasstilted as fuck - bothered me as a teenager - read a few years ago that he's not a native English speaker and he learnt his lines phonetically. He no longer grates on me.
  7. Indy's interplay with Shorty playing cards - Ford is a naturally charming motherfucker and his back and forth with Ke Huw Quan is effortless. Props to both of them.
  8. I genuinely like Shorty in this - must be a mellowing adult thing.
  9. The matte paintings are awesome.
  10. "Shorty where's my razor?"
  11. The gross-out dinner scene is a bit contrived nowadays
  12. The spike pit is one of the very best scene in the franchise. The back and forth between Willie and Indy between the wall is just wonderful.
  13. Willie "Lemme in!"
  14. Shorty "Let us out!"
  15. Indy "...shut up!"
  16. ..."Come on, move you old boot!"
  17. Rent-a-Thugee-crowd
  18. Mola Ram's a proper pantomime baddie.
  19. Snake statue moves. Why?
  20. Hey it's Pat Roach!
  21. Weird slave kid scene
  22. too drunk to carry on

One thing I did notice was that if this film came out today it would get a proper fucking mauling on the Internet. Just one scene out of hundreds that wouldn't stand up is the giant water vat being knocked over and flooding the tunnels. The amount of water in the vat is nowhere near the amount that flows down the tunnel and at least 100% of it would fall down the first lava hole. This doesn't bother me in the slightest now, but I'm guessing the Internet generation would rake this over the coals and back again.

Makes me wonder about KotCS - is just as goofy and ridiculous. Are we approaching it all wrong?


- user_32 - 06-10-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post


Or, y'know, The Lost World.


I'm talking score. It's his tribute to Max Steiner.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Stale Elvis View Post

Makes me wonder about KotCS - is just as goofy and ridiculous. Are we approaching it all wrong?


The kids of 2008 will be raving how underappreciated it is in 2038.



- fatherdude - 06-10-2016

ASince being goofy and ridiculous isn't what makes CRYSTAL SKULL suck, I'm not sure it matters that the others are also goofy and ridiculous.


[quote name="Fraid uh noman" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/600#post_4081093"]Lost World and Temple of Doom have a lot in common..[/quote]

In that they both have great soundtracks. But THE LOST WORLD isn't fit to fetch TEMPLE's fucking shinebox.


- warlock1459 - 06-10-2016

All I just want a great send off and good set up because we know the Mouse House is going to milk the franchise for all it is worth. Years ago I ran an Indy table top game where Doctor Jones was doing field work with his class in Argentina when some old  Nazis bringing in a mystic artifact in an attempt to resurrect the Führer (I think I had it be the Spear of Longinus and it had the power to raise the dead cause Zombie Nazi was a thing at the time.)The main bad guy spots him and remembers all the trouble he caused them and sends his goons in as preemptive strike.  I would like to see them do something similar. When it puts his class room in danger and he learns of the plot he has to step up and be Indy one more time. It was the starting point for the party in my game but it could be the set up for an Indy universe for Disney. The story writes its self after all Indy is at his best when punching a Nazi.  I would make Wan Li aka Short Round the contact/side kick and he is basically just like Jones was in Temple of doom all about fortune and glory. You have Li doing the heavy lifting of stunt and action a failed attempt at grabbing his Ball cap from a falling trap door as well as other past Indy homages. At the end of the story you can have Jones party fail and the spear is lost or destroyed and he can pass the hat onto Short Round like Garth, aka "Fedora” did in the flash back in Last crusade they can even have him say the same line or a variation of it “We lost today kid but we don’t have to like it.” Would be a cool bookend for Jones. It would be a win-win for Disney they have an Asian face to tap that huge market and can pick and choose from a group of talented young stars from his class to carry on the story and have a new set of adventures inspired by Jones much like the upcoming SW: Rouge One.




- Stale Elvis - 06-10-2016

AWould Disney touch Nazis?


- moltisanti - 06-10-2016

They've explored the topic in the past...






- mr. stockslivevan - 06-10-2016

ATHE ROCKETEER is most notable.


- hammerhead - 06-10-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

THE ROCKETEER is most notable.


Also Bedknobs and Broomsticks.




- hammerhead - 06-10-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post


Or, y'know, The Lost World.


I'm talking score. It's his tribute to Max Steiner.



I'd say it's equal parts Steiner and Rozsa. Both perfectly appropriate colors for the Indy pallette.




- Belloq87 - 06-10-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stale Elvis View Post

Would Disney touch Nazis?

I don't think it's a question of Disney.  It's Spielberg.  He'll never again use Nazis in the same capacity that he did in RAIDERS or LAST CRUSADE, unfortunately.



I think I've seen the idea bandied around elsewhere, but the notion of Indy being up against a group of sophisticated, urbane occult practitioners - along the lines of THE SEVENTH VICTIM, or even ROSEMARY'S BABY in a similar vein - could be kind of cool.  It would allow for a huge amount of weird lore, would place the plot again into the realm of the religious, and would immediately establish the heavies as pretty bad news.  I don't know how you'd necessarily turn such a group into credible threats in big-scale action setpieces, nor what the actual MacGuffin might be in such a scenario, but I'm sure they could figure something out.  That's probably too dark for modern Disney, though.


 




- mr. stockslivevan - 06-11-2016

AI want Indy to fight different villains. Using Nazis just feels like like a lazy retread of Raiders instead of venturing out (part of why I'm not as fond of TLC is that it reverts back to Indy fighting Nazis yet again in a desert, the same old iconography of Raiders). That's part of why I like Temple. It was truly a whole different adventure. The Soviets would have been cool, but they we're pretty much just a copy of Nazis with the same ruthless soldiers chasing Indy. I think it would have been more fun if the antagonists were just KGB spies like in James Bond movies where they're less of a ruthless enemy and more like rivals trying to chase after the same MacGuffin. I think Speilberg would have had more fun with that kind of cat and mouse while keeping up with his less blood thirsty outlook.


- bradito - 06-11-2016

AThey should have the villains be SMERSH and Daniel Craig should be Indy's other long-lost son.


- mr. stockslivevan - 06-11-2016

AThat reminds me, Craig actually had a role as a villain in that Young Indy show. He had the most piss poor dime store stache I've ever seen.


- bradito - 06-11-2016

AI still like my idea.


- Stale Elvis - 06-11-2016

A[quote name="Belloq87" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/600#post_4081181"]

I don't think it's a question of Disney.  It's Spielberg.  He'll never again use Nazis in the same capacity that he did in RAIDERS or LAST CRUSADE, unfortunately.

I think I've seen the idea bandied around elsewhere, but the notion of Indy being up against a group of sophisticated, urbane occult practitioners - along the lines of THE SEVENTH VICTIM, or even ROSEMARY'S BABY in a similar vein - could be kind of cool.  It would allow for a huge amount of weird lore, would place the plot again into the realm of the religious, and would immediately establish the heavies as pretty bad news.  I don't know how you'd necessarily turn such a group into credible threats in big-scale action setpieces, nor what the actual MacGuffin might be in such a scenario, but I'm sure they could figure something out.  That's probably too dark for modern Disney, though.


[/quote]

Kind of like this - Indy vs the Manson Family.

Whatever they go for I hope they drag Ford out into the wilderness, make it non-CGI bloody and have Indy as a sly, sneaky, shoot first kind of bastard again.


- Belloq87 - 06-11-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stale Elvis View Post


Kind of like this - Indy vs the Manson Family.

Whatever they go for I hope they drag Ford out into the wilderness, make it non-CGI bloody and have Indy as a sly, sneaky, shoot first kind of bastard again.

I'd be down for that.  I just want to see an Indiana Jones movie with some edge again.  Even LAST CRUSADE, arguably the funniest of the movies, hits much harder than CRYSTAL SKULL does.  They need to let Indy kill some people this time out.




- fraid uh noman - 06-11-2016

A[quote name="Stale Elvis" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/630#post_4081201"]
Kind of like this - Indy vs the Manson Family.

Whatever they go for I hope they drag Ford out into the wilderness, make it non-CGI bloody and have Indy as a sly, sneaky, shoot first kind of bastard again.[/quote]
This would seem to fit the (assumed) 60s setting very very well. But I keep associating the US (and California in particular) with this sort of thing. It needs a more exotic setting..


- fatherdude - 06-11-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlock1459 View Post
 

Years ago I ran an Indy table top game where Doctor Jones was doing field work with his class in Argentina when some old  Nazis bringing in a mystic artifact in an attempt to resurrect the Führer (I think I had it be the Spear of Longinus and it had the power to raise the dead cause Zombie Nazi was a thing at the time.)



This is almost the exact plot of the cancelled Indiana Jones and the Iron Phoenix adventure game we touched on upthread, only the McGuffin to resurrect Hitler was the Philospher's Stone (pre Harry Potter).  A version of the story got made into a comic, and there was also a different one about the Spear of Longinus ("Spear of Destiny").



I bought those Omnibus collections of all the Indy comics several years back.  I need to dig it up because some were okay.




- commodorejohn - 06-11-2016

A[quote name="Fraid uh noman" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/600#post_4081331"][quote name="Stale Elvis" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/630#post_4081201"]Kind of like this - Indy vs the Manson Family.

Whatever they go for I hope they drag Ford out into the wilderness, make it non-CGI bloody and have Indy as a sly, sneaky, shoot first kind of bastard again.[/quote]
This would seem to fit the (assumed) 60s setting very very well. But I keep associating the US (and California in particular) with this sort of thing. It needs a more exotic setting..[/quote]
Guyana?


- fraid uh noman - 06-11-2016

AGuyana could work. It just might be a bit on the noses but I doubt that that matters. Also Indy's last movie was also partially set in Central/South America so....I dunno.

I was trying to think of European, African, Asian examples of this sort of thing but I keep just drawing a blank. Japan or Australia could be cool backdrops if it could just be figured out what he'd be doing there..


- user_32 - 06-11-2016

In the PC world of today, it's hard to find a group of villains that someone won't be offended with.



I guess the Manson family works.



"Mansons, I hate these guys."




- fraid uh noman - 06-11-2016

ACultists/Satanists getting whipped shot and punched in the face should offend no one.

THEY'RE THE BAD GUYS

I want this movie to be to Temple of Doom what Last Crusade was to Raiders...


- virtanen - 06-11-2016

Dunno, I think satanists are pretty cool.





Who else? Fascists? Climate change deniers? People who text and drive?




- fraid uh noman - 06-11-2016

AIndiana Jones and the Satanic Panic


- arjen rudd - 06-11-2016

ALovecraft cult, guys! It's time to go all in on the Indy/Cthulhu movie everyone's always been debating.


- chaz - 06-11-2016

  Satanists or some weird cult could work since in Raiders it is mentioned that Indy is an expert in the occult. Its during the big exposition scene when Indy and Marcus explain the Ark to the two government dudes.




- Nooj - 06-11-2016

I thought that scene in Raiders had the TOP MEN saying that HITLER was a nut about the occult.  I don't recall Indy being described as an expert in it specifically.




- agentsands77 - 06-11-2016

A[quote name="mcnooj82" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/630#post_4081455"]I thought that scene in Raiders had the TOP MEN saying that HITLER was a nut about the occult.  I don't recall Indy being described as an expert in it specifically.
[/quote]
You're wrong, Nooj.

"Professor of archeology, expert on the occult, and how does one say it?"


- fraid uh noman - 06-11-2016

A"...acquirer of rare antiquities."?


- Nooj - 06-11-2016

NONONONONONONONONONO!!!!








- fraid uh noman - 06-11-2016

A...they should've retconned that into Red Skull's origin..


- commodorejohn - 06-11-2016

A[quote name="Fraid uh noman" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/650#post_4081460"]...they should've retconned that into Red Skull's origin..[/quote]
There's no way I actually want those universes to cross over, but hot damn do I wish they'd cast Hugo Weaving in an Indy movie now.


- agentsands77 - 06-11-2016

AI remember those rumors that Weaving was gonna be a bad guy in THE FORCE AWAKENS.