The Trouble City Forums
INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

+- The Trouble City Forums (http://citizens.trouble.city)
+-- Forum: Main Street (http://citizens.trouble.city/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Focused Film Discussion (http://citizens.trouble.city/forumdisplay.php?fid=94)
+--- Thread: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion (/showthread.php?tid=155331)



- mr. stockslivevan - 06-22-2016

AI hope Kaminski checks his.

Probably won't.


- carnotaur3 - 06-22-2016

AHe should also stay away from the color correction board too.


- kyle reese - 06-22-2016

Scrolling up a bit, I can't tell, but...you guys heard George Lucas will be Executive Producer on this, right?



http://www.slashfilm.com/indiana-jones-5-george-lucas/



Edit: Didn't scroll up far enough. Jesus.



Anyways, I'm not too psyched for this movie. I look forward to hemming and hawing over the trailers with you all, though.




- carnotaur3 - 06-22-2016

AI think Iger is hoping for a reboot in the future, but with Spielberg so adamant about keeping Indy in the family, his hands are tied on the property.


- fraid uh noman - 06-22-2016

A[quote name="Agentsands77" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/720#post_4087520"]The Beard said this was right down the line for the fans. I smell a RAIDERS retread, complete with Biblical relic.[/quote]
I hope the macguffin is NOT something Biblical. The Holy Grail is the greatest possible Biblical artifact go search for, period. What's left that can compare with that?


- agentsands77 - 06-22-2016

A[quote name="Fraid uh noman" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/720#post_4087830"]
I hope the macguffin is NOT something Biblical. The Holy Grail is the greatest possible Biblical artifact go search for, period. What's left that can compare with that?[/quote]
Oh, I think the Ark of the Covenant is a better relic than the Grail, which is kinda weak (and they recognized that, which is why they brought in Indy's dad).

But there's a lot of stuff they could do. Most of it has already been covered by the EU (the Garden of Eden, the staff of Moses or Aaron, the Tower of Babel, Noah's Ark).

But if Lucas really is involved, maybe the relic isn't Biblical in nature.


- agentsands77 - 06-22-2016

A[quote name="FatherDude" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/720#post_4087793"]More from Spielberg:

[/quote]
Nothing about this sounds like, "We had an idea so good I just had to make this thing!"

It sounds like Spielberg is just dutifully tending to his major franchise.


- user_32 - 06-22-2016

AI'd say the same would be true for all the Indy sequels.


- kyle reese - 06-22-2016

You know what would be good? An alien artifact instead.



Hell, why not Atlantis? <img src=" src="http://files.chud.com/images/smilies/wink.gif" />



Seriously though, make it the Fountain Of Youth so we can get some more of that Jeff Bridges in Tron:Legacy CGI magic.




- itsnotatumor - 06-22-2016

Excalibur.




- DerekM - 06-22-2016

Jesus' Bong?




- itsnotatumor - 06-22-2016

No seriously, Excalibur. Realizing of course everything borrows from the Arthur Legend, but there hasn't really been anything directly related in some time so it's completely safe. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if it's been considered, and really how could they fuck it up? They need some kind of world famous mythological artifact they can fit a story around that allows them to explore the best aspects of the series without outright retreading and winking at the fans like KOTCS.  How on Earth could anything be better?  I think it would make for the absolute perfect artifact for a final Indiana Jones film.




- carnotaur3 - 06-22-2016

AExcalibur is a fantastic idea!


- Belloq87 - 06-22-2016

Excalibur would be a solid - if perhaps obvious - choice.  But I just hope the MacGuffin is connected to some known mythology or belief system, and not the kind of hooey that brought us extra-dimensional beings in saucer ships.  They tried to tie it in to ancient civilizations, but it felt like a real reach.




- itsnotatumor - 06-22-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 

Excalibur would be a solid - if perhaps obvious - choice.  But I just hope the MacGuffin is connected to some known mythology or belief system, and not the kind of hooey that brought us extra-dimensional beings in saucer ships.  They tried to tie it in to ancient civilizations, but it felt like a real reach.


Well the problem is KOTCS was based on really nutty ideas spread by crazies and con artists. The film just had absolutely  no grounding in reality, and I think that at it's core is it's worst flaw because it was really disrespectful to the science and the real ancient cultures that existed in South America. So there's nothing tangible really for us to connect to in that story, these films should always be about adventures surrounding archaeology's greatest mysteries and proving there's some truth to popular myths.

I think after the last film, if they really want to do it right they might have to go for something totally obvious, and that's perfectly fine in my book so long as the film more or less lives up to bare minimum expectations and doesn't go off into outright stupid and inane territory.




- kyle reese - 06-23-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsnotatumor View Post
 

 these films should always be about adventures surrounding archaeology's greatest mysteries



Like the Mystery of Al Capone's Vaults?




- commodorejohn - 06-23-2016

A[quote name="Itsnotatumor" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/700#post_4087903"]Well the problem is KOTCS was based on really nutty ideas spread by crazies and con artists. The film just had absolutely no grounding in reality, and I think that at it's core is it's worst flaw because it was really disrespectful to the science and the real ancient cultures that existed in South America. So there's nothing tangible really for us to connect to in that story, these films should always be about adventures surrounding archaeology's greatest mysteries and proving there's some truth to popular myths.[/quote]
It also didn't even do right by kook fringe UFOlogy (which still really wouldn't have fit Indy's milieu, but might at least have been interesting in its own right,) it just kinda sloshed that onto the pile, tossed out a couple token nods, and then left it until it was finally time to make up some random shit before Spielberg's Even Bigger Alien Ship Climax Letdown. What a waste.


- arjen rudd - 06-23-2016

AIf Spielberg had truly set out to make a kooky alienologist Chariot of the Gods film, it would have been worthwhile even if it wasn't the purest "Indiana Jones" film.

Hell, I actually kind of enjoy elements of that in KOTCS. It was just half baked, like a lot of the film.


- Belloq87 - 06-23-2016

I could have gone along with an alien-based MacGuffin if the creatures themselves weren't presented so explicitly.  Mythical etchings and cave drawings - fine.  But corporeal entities in flying saucers?  Doesn't feel like Indiana Jones to me.  Or at least the Indiana Jones I want to see.




- itsnotatumor - 06-23-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post


It also didn't even do right by kook fringe UFOlogy (which still really wouldn't have fit Indy's milieu, but might at least have been interesting in its own right,) it just kinda sloshed that onto the pile, tossed out a couple token nods, and then left it until it was finally time to make up some random shit before Spielberg's Even Bigger Alien Ship Climax Letdown. What a waste.

Well I think that is because there was nothing tangible to connect with, just some crazy made up mumbo jumbo and conspiracy theory rants, there was no solid foundation for any of the participants to build on other than to wink at the audience and play off of nostalgia as much as possible. Not a fan of the idea of putting UFO's in an Indy film at all, it just feels like that's the point where they totally ran out of ideas, which is stupid because there's so many real things they could have used as the Macguffin to ground the story into something that you could really build something rich off of. I can't imagine they ever actually thought it was a good idea.




- Stale Elvis - 06-23-2016

AI just remember sitting in the theatre feeling like I did during Highlander 2 plus also wondering why are those natives were waiting inside the temple walls? How did they get in there? Did they just spend their days hidden in the walls waiting for someone to turn up? Did someone have to come and rebuild the walls every time they popped out? Those walls look like they've been there for millennia not rebuilt sometime in the last couple of years, as they must have jumped out at Oxley. Hang on no that doesn't make sense, they'd just kill him. These natives don't make a lick of sense. They're just perfunctory set-dressing. Christ this is tedious.


- raynis - 06-23-2016

ACongrats on making it through the nuked fridge and Tarzan LeBoof before you felt swindled.

I can't pick at those natives in the walls or stuff like that that doesn't make sense. TEMPLE OF DOOM is full of that shit and I'm crazy for that movie.

I think mostly for me the thrills are just uninspired. I like the car chases (What are there like three? Weird.) But all the set pieces are just lazy on concept. It really culminates for me when I realized how much time and money they spent on having THREE fucking waterfalls in a row, just because "THREE WATERFALLS IN A ROWWWWWHHOOAAAA!" could they not think of anything more thrilling? Anything cooler?


- agentsands77 - 06-23-2016

AThe nuked fridge setpiece is the best bit in the movie.

I don't mind aliens in my Indiana Jones, necessarily, but they should be creepy Lovecraftian aliens, not X-FILES aliens.


- MichaelM - 06-23-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stale Elvis View Post

I just remember sitting in the theatre feeling like I did during Highlander 2


I gotta stop you right there. KOTCS is bad. BAD. But it's not anywhere near Highlander 2 bad.




- fraid uh noman - 06-23-2016

ABut Highlander 2 is bad in a delightful way!

Kingdom of the Crystal Meth is bad in a hurtful appalling way. It wants to take your inner ten year old and knock the scoop of ice cream off his cone and make him cry..


- MichaelM - 06-23-2016

I agree that KOTCS's bad hurts because of what came before it.



I think I'd need to be pretty drunk to watch Highlander 2 again. Or passed out.




- fraid uh noman - 06-23-2016

AI want to get my hands on a copy of the theatrical version of Highlander 2. I want it in it's purest bad form..


- MichaelM - 06-23-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fraid uh noman View Post

I want to get my hands on a copy of the theatrical version of Highlander 2. I want it in it's purest bad form..


Step 1: Go to Taco Bell and buy 3 Beefy Nacho Grillers.


Step 2: Eat and let nature take its course.


Step 3: Stick face in toilet bowl before flushing.



There. I just save you 90 minutes and ten bucks.




- fraid uh noman - 06-23-2016

A[quote name="MichaelM" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/750#post_4088049"]
Step 1: Go to Taco Bell and buy 3 Beefy Nacho Grillers.
Step 2: Eat and let nature take its course.
Step 3: Stick face in toilet bowl before flushing.

There. I just save you 90 minutes and ten bucks.
[/quote]
A post so nice I wish I could rep it twice..


- fatherdude - 06-23-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsnotatumor View Post



Well the problem is KOTCS was based on really nutty ideas spread by crazies and con artists. The film just had absolutely  no grounding in reality, and I think that at it's core is it's worst flaw because it was really disrespectful to the science and the real ancient cultures that existed in South America. So there's nothing tangible really for us to connect to in that story, these films should always be about adventures surrounding archaeology's greatest mysteries and proving there's some truth to popular myths.



It's pretty clear that Lucas intended the crystal skulls and von Däniken malarkey to be the grounding elements.  His first choice after all was to have none of that and go straight-up INDEPENDENCE DAY with flying saucers attacking civilization.  You can imagine he figured that throwing in an artifact like the skull, ancient temples, the Nazca lines and a dash of conquistador burial sites would complete the Indy package.



And honestly, I think he's right - it's an excellent foundation.  The problem, as Arjen suggests, is the half-bakeness of the ideas, rather than the ideas themselves.  Take the Nazca lines: real-life geoglyphs that continue to astound archeologists today.  That's a terrific example of a grounding element, but the movie does literally nothing with them except acknowledge them and move on.



That whole segment with the cemetery is a weird dead-end, really.  The Nazca Indians are distinct from the actual custodians of Akator, the Ugha tribe, that we meet later.  So how do the Nazcans even fit in to the story?  Are they descendants or otherwise related enough that they still know of the aliens (hence binding their infants' heads) and meant the lines to communicate with them somehow?  The movie has zero interest in exploring any of that.



Damn near everything in the movie is indicative of this "good enough" approach.  Those cemetery warriors could have been given some kind of agenda along the lines of the Brotherhood of the Cruciform Sword; instead they're masked ninjas who make goofy noises, never to appear again.  The Roswell alien ends up being, apparently, completely irrelevant, as do all the other crystal skulls in the world.



There's no particularly active interest on the part of the film makers to tie all this shit together.  It's the kind of movie that spends much of its first act establishing how Indy is a victim of government paranoia and then offers no explanation as to why he'd be reinstated - nay, promoted! - at the end.




- carnotaur3 - 06-23-2016

AYeah the movie feels like a first draft in spite of the fact the movie had been written for 14 plus years.


- hypnotoad - 06-23-2016

Wasn't there talk that they rushed into Crystal Skull to avoid the looming writer's strike?  Was there anything to that or was it just speculation?




- carnotaur3 - 06-23-2016

AThat wouldn't surprise me. That was a threatening thing for a couple of years and in the year the KOTCS was released, the strike actually happened, preventing Terminator Salvation from hiring almost any writer for more than a week or two.


- fatherdude - 06-23-2016

I've heard that too, but I'm dubious of any impact.  Indy 4 was greenlit with an approved script in December 2006, after Koepp had spent the better part of a year writing (he was hired no later than March '06).  The film actually completed shooting just prior to the strike's launch at the end of 2007.  Maybe some of Koepp's later revisions were rushed because they saw the strike looming and didn't want to be caught in a bind, but it seems like he had as much time with the script as his predecessors.




- carnotaur3 - 06-23-2016

AAs I recall though, Keopp was even writing onset. So that at least tells me everyone was aware it wasn't exactly all in place the moment they started principal photography.