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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

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- fraid uh noman - 10-03-2016

ASometimes I'm just so glad to see an old face pop up again that I hardly notice if they're utilized poorly. I'm nostalgic to a fault. It's my drug of choice these days. I have no problem with how much of it Hollywood is peddling.

So long as they do better than crud like Crystal Skull..


- commodorejohn - 10-03-2016

AYeah, I was tickled to see Karen Allen back (Marion's far and away the best female lead Indy had,) but Lord they did not give her absolutely anything to do for the entire movie.


- agentsands77 - 10-03-2016

A[quote name="FatherDude" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/930#post_4143412"]The problem with Marion is that the script had exactly two uses for her: the initial reveal and the wedding.  So for the hour's duration between those two scenes, the movie's got nothing for her to do but make the occasional barb and drive off a cliff.

Mutt is similarly turned into dead weight the moment he's revealed to be Indy's son.  The movie just doesn't know what to do with characters after their initial scenes.  This pattern starts right from the prologue that Mac should not have survived.
[/quote]
Yeeeeep.


- fraid uh noman - 10-03-2016

AOh yeah Marion is certainly the best. Karen Allen in Raiders was like my first movie crush so I'm a bit biased. Is that weird?

I've never understood all the hate for Willie Scott though. She never irritated me. Yeah she screams a lot but come on. Temple and Raiders are like neck and neck to me quality-wise. Love them both so much. I've soured on Crusade over the years somewhat though..


- commodorejohn - 10-03-2016

A[quote name="Fraid uh noman" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/900#post_4143462"]Oh yeah Marion is certainly the best. Karen Allen in Raiders was like my first movie crush so I'm a bit biased. Is that weird?[/quote]
Whether it is or not, you're certainly not alone.


- user_32 - 10-03-2016

AOpen the next one with his wife having died from some disease and his son doesn't want anything to do with him so he goes on one last adventure to feel whole again and tame the beast inside him.

Wait, that was Rocky Balboa.


- fatherdude - 10-03-2016

I wonder if Koepp is starting from scratch or if he's continuing off the story idea Lucas was supposedly working on prior to retirement.  From 2011:



Quote:

"I told [Spielberg] about the story, but I really haven't found the MacGuffin yet. I mean, I know what it's about, but I just have to find a MacGuffin that fits into the arena we're working in." Will Indiana's considerably extended family factor into the movie? Lucas just laughed. "Yeah, we'll see!"



I'm taking "arena" to be a synonym for "genre" here.  That could mean that he was going to do something different from the sci-fi angle of the fourth movie.  Is there really anything left but horror?



This is all potentially moot because what Lucas started on years ago might have been scrapped, but then Lucas is still executive producing this, whatever that means.




- agentsands77 - 10-03-2016

AIt means that Spielberg will consult with Lucas, but Lucas will have no direct power.

It's actually going to be fairly similar to the KOTCS arrangement, where Koepp answered only to Spielberg.


- Paul C - 10-03-2016

AI never understood the way Lucas' acts like finding the Macguffin is some massively difficult thing, that takes years of contemplation. How hard can it be?

Step 1. Look up mythical artifacts. Pick one that suggests cool exotic locations.

Step 2. There is no step 2.


- agentsands77 - 10-03-2016

A[quote name="Paul C" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/930#post_4143489"]I never understood the way Lucas' acts like finding the Macguffin is some massively difficult thing, that takes years of contemplation. How hard can it be?[/quote]
It takes him a while to find one he's excited about, I guess.


- Paul C - 10-03-2016

AHe should just print out this wiki page and throw a dart at it:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mythological_objects


- fatherdude - 10-03-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post

I never understood the way Lucas' acts like finding the Macguffin is some massively difficult thing, that takes years of contemplation. How hard can it be?


It does seem like Lucas emphasizes the wrong part of "breaking the story."  If half the time they spent bickering over how much to balance the alien aspect of CRYSTAL SKULL had been devoted to telling a good story, we'd have a very different film.




- carnotaur3 - 10-03-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post

Yeah, I was tickled to see Karen Allen back (Marion's far and away the best female lead Indy had,) but Lord they did not give her absolutely anything to do for the entire movie.


I didn't actually think Karen Allen did a bad job as Marion, either. But like others had said, her initial scene is all she really gets. The rest of the time she's being ghosted.




- agentsands77 - 10-03-2016

ANot just ghosted, but kinda disrespected. She ends up looking like a goofy idiot.


- fatherdude - 10-03-2016

The gag where she drives off the cliff with grinning certainty that she'll land on the tree branch is really the movie's issue with stakes (it has none) in a nutshell.




- fraid uh noman - 10-03-2016

AThe peripheral threat of the giant ants while Indy fought that big Russian guy is the closest Crystal Skull came to A) feeling like one of the previous movies and B) having a pulse. It's the best scene in the movie IMO..


- agentsands77 - 10-03-2016

ADoomtown is far and away the best scene in KINGDOM. It's the only moment where the madcap Spielberg who gave us crazy stuff like 1941 and TEMPLE comes out to play.

(That's actually true, too, since Spielberg had kept that scene in his back pocket since the 1980s.)


- freeman - 10-03-2016

A*sigh*


- agentsands77 - 10-03-2016

A[Image: giphy.gif]


(but I'm not really sorry)


- chaz - 10-03-2016

My problem with Karen Allen in KOTC is that she isn't playing a character, she just looks like she is happy to be in a big budget movie again.



I don't hate Willie, but she is a tad annoying.




- mr. stockslivevan - 10-03-2016

A[quote name="Chaz" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/950_50#post_4143765"]My problem with Karen Allen in KOTC is that she isn't playing a character, she just looks like she is happy to be in a big budget movie again.
[/quote]

Yes, aside from a few brief moments there's very little of the Marion we're familiar with in this flick.


- freeman - 10-03-2016

Which is why Darabont did a much better job of writing her.  I don't care that a character has grown from what they were.  But Marion changing from a badass who owns a bar in Nepal and punches Jones  the moment they see her into a sweet, bubbly soccer mom is too much change for audiences of a big popcorn blockbuster to take.  If they had to have Marion back fans who cared she was Marion to begin with wanted the Marion they remember, at least to some extent.  At least the terrible choice to make Indy less like Indy and more like Henry Jones Sr. is motivated by the text and the cliche "you become your father."




- hammerhead - 10-03-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post

giphy.gif


(but I'm not really sorry)


WELLSAYITAGAINANYWAY.




- mr. stockslivevan - 10-03-2016

A"I WAS A CHILD, I WAS IN LOOOVE"


- carnotaur3 - 10-03-2016

A"You knew what you were doing..."


- hammerhead - 10-04-2016

It baffles me that Lucas genuinely intended for that scene to imply what we think it's implying. Part of me wants to see a story where it turns out that the rift between Indy, Marion and Abner was in fact a conflict over an important relic...




- commodorejohn - 10-04-2016

A[quote name="Hammerhead" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/950#post_4143841"]It baffles me that Lucas genuinely intended for that scene to imply what we think it's implying. Part of me wants to see a story where it turns out that the rift between Indy, Marion and Abner was in fact a conflict over an important relic...[/quote]
It's a good character moment. It establishes the history and the conflict between Indy and Marion concisely in a few beautifully terse lines, tells us a lot about Indy as a character, and adds some grit and edge to the movie without having to go overboard into COMICALLY SERIOUS GRITTY MELODRAMA the way most modern films do when they're trying to establish their not-just-some-Boy-Scout-hero credentials. The film would be poorer without it.


- somewhere - 10-04-2016

I think Hammerhead is referring to Lucas's original pitch (according to the transcripts of the story conference) for their relationship where Indy had a love affair with Marion when she was literally a child.  Like, somewhere between eleven and fifteen.




- hammerhead - 10-04-2016

Somewhere is correct.




- freeman - 10-04-2016

... George Lucas pedo? Sad




- commodorejohn - 10-04-2016

A...oh.

Um.

Wow.


- carnotaur3 - 10-04-2016

AYou mean Indy pedo.


- freeman - 10-04-2016

It came out of Georges mind!



George Lucas fantasizes about boinking children.




- carnotaur3 - 10-04-2016

ASpielberg loves his fantasies.


- freeman - 10-04-2016