The Trouble City Forums
INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

+- The Trouble City Forums (http://citizens.trouble.city)
+-- Forum: Main Street (http://citizens.trouble.city/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Focused Film Discussion (http://citizens.trouble.city/forumdisplay.php?fid=94)
+--- Thread: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion (/showthread.php?tid=155331)



- agentsands77 - 10-24-2016

AAt one point (pre-Darabont), I think both Lucas and Spielberg had walked away from the film because they couldn't agree.

It was Ford that got everyone talking again. I'm sure Spielberg did it for Ford as much as he did it for Lucas.


- fatherdude - 10-24-2016

But then what do we make of TEMPLE OF DOOM?  Spielberg claimed to feel disconnected from the material there, too, but he apparently was pissing too much vinegar to make that movie anything less than a propulsive blast. 




- mr. stockslivevan - 10-24-2016

AAlso Lucas putting more focus on the Star Wars prequels stalled the project considerably. It's no coincidence that after that trilogy was finished that Lucas was ready to get work on Indy 4 done.


- agentsands77 - 10-24-2016

A[quote name="FatherDude" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/1140#post_4158530"]But then what do we make of TEMPLE OF DOOM?  Spielberg claimed to feel disconnected from the material there, too, but he apparently was pissing too much vinegar to make that movie anything less than a propulsive blast.   
[/quote]Yeah.

But it was the 80s and he was a different filmmaker then.


- fatherdude - 10-24-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post

At one point (pre-Darabont), I think both Lucas and Spielberg had walked away from the film because they couldn't agree.


They apparently did mutually agree to shelve the project after INDEPENDENCE DAY came out, and this would have been around the time Lucas started focusing on the prequels.



I don't know if it was Ford who renewed their interest, though.  I only know that after awhile Lucas decided to evolve from the alien invasion angle to a Chariots of the Gods approach, and the crystal skulls (featured in an unproduced Young Indy teleplay by Darabont), struck him as the grounding element.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post

But it was the 80s and he was a different filmmaker then.


Yes, that seems to be the heart of it.  But it does suggest that his misgivings about the material might not necessarily be the culprit.




- Belloq87 - 10-24-2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post
 

But then what do we make of TEMPLE OF DOOM?  Spielberg claimed to feel disconnected from the material there, too, but he apparently was pissing too much vinegar to make that movie anything less than a propulsive blast.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Agentsands77 View Post


Yeah.

But it was the 80s and he was a different filmmaker then.

The Steven Spielberg of 1975 - 1984 was incapable of making a movie that wasn't directed with incredible energy and vitality.  Even CLOSE ENCOUNTERS and E.T., which couldn't really be called rollicking rides, have Spielberg's cinematic skill pouring off the screen in ways that are incredibly exciting.



THE COLOR PURPLE and EMPIRE OF THE SUN are the points in time where he began to change.  And to be clear, I think those are great films, but it's the moment where some of the verve starts to leave him in favor of pursuing more quote-unquote important stories.  He could get himself back to that in fits and starts (LAST CRUSADE and JURASSIC PARK, obviously), but the shift had begun.  Then the SCHINDLER'S LIST experience is the one that profoundly changed him as a filmmaker.




- agentsands77 - 10-24-2016

A[quote name="FatherDude" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/1140#post_4158537"]

I don't know if it was Ford who renewed their interest, though. 
[/quote]
According to Spielberg, it was. Ford wouldn't let the project die.

Lucas came up with the crystal skull angle after Ford got the bowl rolling again.


- agentsands77 - 10-24-2016

A[quote name="Belloq87" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/1140#post_4158538"]The Steven Spielberg of 1975 - 1984 was incapable of making a movie that wasn't directed with incredible energy and vitality.
[/quote]
Yep.

KINGDOM feels like a bunch of friends in their 50s meeting up at the bar to get roaringly drunk like they used to when they were in their 20s, but they all end up leaving after a few light beers because they know they can't handle the hangover.


- fatherdude - 10-24-2016

It's interesting that Lucas was the only one initially pursuing Indy 4 for the "right reasons" in the sense that he genuinely thought there was a story to tell.  Ford seemed to simply miss the character and Spielberg was coaxed into it.  But Lucas really thought the 50s/sci-fi angle was this epiphany that made a fourth movie creatively justifiable and that it somehow was not justifiable otherwise.




- agentsands77 - 10-24-2016

AThe bummer is that Spielberg seemed like he genuinely believed in the Darabont version of the project. That was the one moment in the whole development process where it seemed like he was all-in.

It's a shame we didn't get CITY OF THE GODS in '03/'04. It would have still been a wonky film, but it might have had the spark of life.


- fatherdude - 10-24-2016

I've said it before: Darabont's script had some silly shit in it, but if the worst we could say about Indy 4 is that it had some silly shit in it, we'd be living in a very different reality.




- Belloq87 - 10-24-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post

But Lucas really thought the 50s/sci-fi angle was this epiphany that made a fourth movie creatively justifiable and that it somehow was not justifiable otherwise.

Despite everything, I have a lot of affection for Lucas, but it's this sort of mindset that vexes me.  Once he got his heart and mind set on a particular thing, that was it.  He's on the record vis-a-vis CRYSTAL SKULL's alien angle saying things like "It's the only way we could do it," and "It had to be about aliens because there were no other options."  No, George, there were (and are) plenty of other options.




- fatherdude - 10-24-2016

Darabont from 2007 agrees that Lucas is a bit bullheaded...



Quote:


MTV: Did you ever speak to George Lucas directly?


Darabont: Yes! I told him he was crazy. I said, "You have a fantastic script. I think you're insane, George." You can say things like that to George, and he doesn't even blink. He's one of the most stubborn men I know.



Ironically, George would have been the one who hired Frank, based on his writing for Young Indy.  Though I believe Darabont had worked with Spielberg as well, on some uncredited SAVING PRIVATE RYAN doctoring.  He was seemingly the ideal collaborator.  But alas.



I wonder if Frank got screwed by timing.  His stint would have been when Lucas was knee-deep into the prequels and not really available to the project.  Was that somehow related?  I'd still love to know what specifically Lucas objected to about the Darabont version.  It would potentially explain a lot about what George's vision for Indy 4 was (at least in the post-SAUCER MEN stage).



How awful would it be if we were deprived of the gritty tone, breathless momentum, wonderfully heinous antagonists and superb set pieces of Darabont's version all because there wasn't a Mutt or something stupid like that?  When you compare his version with the final one, yeah there are story differences, but the main one seems to just be that one sucks and one doesn't.  I don't even mean that to be flippant.  I just don't get what the big missing link was that Nathanson/Koepp supplied that somehow justified the mothballing of Darabont's plainly superior execution of many of the same concepts.




- Dent6084 - 03-06-2017

It's official: July 19, 2019. Spielberg and Ford returning.



https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/spielberg-and-ford-reunite-as-indiana-jones-returns-to-theaters-july-19-2019/




- bradito - 03-06-2017

AGeez, I'll be older than Harrison Ford by then.


- user_32 - 03-06-2017

ANo George Lucas. Odd.


- atomtastic - 03-06-2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post

No George Lucas. Odd.

It wasn't mentioned in previous press releases either. I just hope David Koepp is somehow off the project.




- fraid uh noman - 03-06-2017

A[quote name="User_32" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/1170#post_4244638"]No George Lucas. Odd.[/quote]
You misspelled good..


- fatherdude - 03-06-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dent6084 View Post
 

It's official: July 19, 2019. Spielberg and Ford returning.



https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/spielberg-and-ford-reunite-as-indiana-jones-returns-to-theaters-july-19-2019/



It was already official. That press release is from March 2016.




- Dent6084 - 03-06-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post
 


It was already official. That press release is from March 2016.


Huh, it was getting passed around this morning as something new.




- fatherdude - 03-06-2017

Looks like SlashFilm fell asleep at the wheel there.



I don't get the point of announcing a movie so far ahead of time.  An entire year has passed and we're still like eighteen months from when this probably starts shooting.




- Belloq87 - 03-06-2017

I've heard they're shooting in spring of '18, once Spielberg's major publicity duties for READY PLAYER ONE are finished.




- history buff - 03-06-2017

AI'm ok with a fifth Indy film. This is clearly Spielberg trying to wash out the bad taste left from Crystal Skull.

I would have preferred a reboot to the project with a younger actor playing Indy. Without nazis it just ain't the same.


- Dent6084 - 03-06-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 

I've heard they're shooting in spring of '18, once Spielberg's major publicity duties for READY PLAYER ONE are finished.


Well, we'll see, now that this just got announced:



http://deadline.com/2017/03/steven-spielberg-tom-hanks-meryl-streep-pentagon-papers-the-post-amy-pascal-1202034193/




- boone daniels - 03-06-2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dent6084 View Post
 

Well, we'll see, now that this just got announced:



http://deadline.com/2017/03/steven-spielberg-tom-hanks-meryl-streep-pentagon-papers-the-post-amy-pascal-1202034193/



This is a fantastic fucking script, btw. I'm so hyped for this now.



Also, re: Indiana Jones, one possible route would to be a younger/older Indy story, where you have Ford finally solving a case/quest that he was never able to complete in his younger days, with flashbacks allowing you to cast a younger actor who you could then slot into that period either before Temple of Doom or in between the proper films. I've been a big advocate that they should do Excalibur/Isle of Avalon.




- arjen rudd - 03-06-2017

ASpielberg hasn't really even attempted a huge blockbuster since Indy 4, has he? I wonder if he's a little snakebit. Used to be absolutely no one could beat him at those.


- Richard Dickson - 03-06-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dent6084 View Post
 

Well, we'll see, now that this just got announced:



http://deadline.com/2017/03/steven-spielberg-tom-hanks-meryl-streep-pentagon-papers-the-post-amy-pascal-1202034193/



The All the President's Men prequel we've been demanding!



All kidding aside, that looks fantastic.




- Belloq87 - 03-06-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dent6084 View Post
 

Well, we'll see, now that this just got announced:



http://deadline.com/2017/03/steven-spielberg-tom-hanks-meryl-streep-pentagon-papers-the-post-amy-pascal-1202034193/


We'll see if this even happens.  We're still waiting on Spielberg's similarly-announced HARVEY and WEST SIDE STORY remakes, as well as the Jennifer Lawrence photojournalist biopic that was supposedly happening.



In any case, if it does end up happening, there's your Best Picture front runner for whichever year in which it drops; the Academy will jump at the chance to award another movie they deem to be "important" and "timely" and "relevant."



I'd rather see INDIANA JONES V than see Spielberg go his most overtly political since MUNICH.  But then again, MUNICH is a masterpiece.




- MichaelM - 03-06-2017

Wasn't BFG an attempt at a big summer movie, family-style?




- Dent6084 - 03-06-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 

We'll see if this even happens.  We're still waiting on Spielberg's similarly-announced HARVEY and WEST SIDE STORY remakes, as well as the Jennifer Lawrence photojournalist biopic that was supposedly happening.



In any case, if it does end up happening, there's your Best Picture front runner for whichever year in which it drops; the Academy will jump at the chance to award another movie they deem to be "important" and "timely" and "relevant."



I'd rather see INDIANA JONES V than see Spielberg go his most overtly political since MUNICH.  But then again, MUNICH is a masterpiece.


My guess is that he shoots Indy V and this Pentagon Papers film next year - it seems farther along than Harvey and WSS. This year will be post-production on Ready Player One and Edgardo Mortara w/ Rylance and Oscar Isaac.




- fatherdude - 03-06-2017

The HARVEY remake was scrapped long ago.



There's currently a big gap in Spielberg's schedule between THE KIDNAPPING OF EDGARDO MORTARA (filming soon) and summer of 2018, so it wouldn't be the craziest thing in the world if Spielberg crammed another production in between.  He's had a more manic slate, for sure.




- mr. stockslivevan - 03-06-2017

A[quote name="Arjen Rudd" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/1150_50#post_4244751"]Spielberg hasn't really even attempted a huge blockbuster since Indy 4, has he? I wonder if he's a little snakebit. Used to be absolutely no one could beat him at those.[/quote]

There is TINTIN, but that didn't turn out to be a hit which was too bad. That movie felt a lot like the old Spielberg from what I remember. Much more energy than Indy 4. I should give that a rewatch.


- boone daniels - 03-06-2017

Ready Player One is about as big summer blockbuster you can get, even if it's premiering in March. But in Hollywood, summer is year round!




- Belloq87 - 03-06-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post
 

There's currently a big gap in Spielberg's schedule between THE KIDNAPPING OF EDGARDO MORTARA (filming soon) and summer of 2018, so it wouldn't be the craziest thing in the world if Spielberg crammed another production in between.  He's had a more manic slate, for sure.


He could definitely find room for it, I'm sure.  The pace at which he's been moving lately has been pretty amazing.  Which, as a fan, I'm happy about.




- Paul C - 03-06-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post
 

There's currently a big gap in Spielberg's schedule between THE KIDNAPPING OF EDGARDO MORTARA (filming soon) and summer of 2018, so it wouldn't be the craziest thing in the world if Spielberg crammed another production in between.  He's had a more manic slate, for sure.



I hadn't heard of that one. Is he concluding a trilogy started with Bring Me The Head Of Alfredo Garcia and continued with The Three Burials Of Melquiades Estrada?