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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

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- boone daniels - 07-25-2017

The logical progression of the character's arc would be to have Indiana take his place as a Knight/Protector of the Grail, but he's still messing around in the late 20th century if the TV show is still canon.



Speaking of the TV show, I want an eyepatch.



Also: British folk cultists. Gimme Indiana Jones vs. The Wicker Man. Plz.




- Misfit - 07-25-2017

They cut all the old Indy stuff out of the DVD releases, so I'd guess Lucas doesn't consider it canon. Spielberg is probably just barely aware it exists. There is the jazz episode that had the Harrison Ford wraparounds, though.




- boone daniels - 07-25-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misfit View Post
 

They cut all the old Indy stuff out of the DVD releases, so I'd guess Lucas doesn't consider it canon. Spielberg is probably just barely aware it exists. There is the jazz episode that had the Harrison Ford wraparounds, though.



Oh, I didn't know that. My idea stands!



And that jazz episode could very easily be somewhere between Crusade and Crystal Skull, or just after Crystal Skull. I don't think we get a date on it.




- Paul C - 07-25-2017

AFrom what I remember the Old Indy bookends were... questionable. But if they had to bring the character back I always liked the idea of them fully embracing an older take on the character and having him return as this grizzled old vet with an unexplained eye patch. Which they didn't do of course.


- Belloq87 - 07-25-2017

The "Old Indy" stuff from the show is awful.  No disrespect to the actor they got for the part, but he doesn't even attempt to portray the character as an older version of Ford.  It could be a completely different character if not for the name, because he's just a crazy old codger with none of the Indy attitude.  While I think the versions of the episodes with those scenes should have been made available (and the show should be on Blu by now), excising them is not the worst example of Lucas tinkering with old projects.




- boone daniels - 07-25-2017

Oh, I'm not advocating for their quality, mind you. Just their place in the "canon."




- Belloq87 - 07-25-2017

I just don't like to think of 95-year-old Indy puttering around museums and parks while angrily lecturing people around him.




- fatherdude - 07-25-2017

CRYSTAL SKULL made "Young Indy" part of the film canon by referencing his Pancho Villa adventure in the Peruvian marketplace.  However, since Lucas removed the bookends it seems he doesn't consider those part of official canon.  Still, it would be a deliciously bold choice if Indy got an eye poked out in the fifth movie.



I believe those bookends also stated the Indy had a daughter.  In at least one of the incarnations of Indy 4, there was going to be a daughter instead of Mutt.  This would seem to be a contradiction, but hell, we all know Indy got around over the years.  It doesn't strain credulity at all that he unknowingly spawned a bastard daughter somewhere in the world.  It would be ideal if she turned up just in time replace Mutt, who tragically got caught in a threshing machine.




- Misfit - 07-25-2017

I don't understand why I remember this, but I think we meet his daughter in one episode and later on he refers to his children, multiple.




- fraid uh noman - 07-25-2017

AI'm all for an Indy 5. ALL for. Even if everything else isn't quite up to snuff...if it's just a movie where Spielberg and Ford's hearts are in it...bring. It. On. If the intentions are to go out on a higher note than Crystal Skull...yeah, I want them to have their chance to try.

And I don't understand how "should they/should they not recast Indy is even up for discussion. Whether they will or won't, I mean. Indiana Jones is not a property that will end with Spielberg and Ford. No way...no how. Someone else WILL play Indy. There is zero chance of that not happening. And when it does...I'll judge that film, whatever form it takes on it's own merits..


- fatherdude - 07-25-2017

Most likely Lucas considers all of the bookend material Fake News, so I guess it's a moot point.



I still say a daughter would have been better than a son in Indy 4, and no child would have been better than either.  But what the hell was Lucas supposed to do?  Approve the obviously better script?




- commodorejohn - 07-25-2017

A[quote name="Fraid uh noman" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/1300#post_4329654"]And I don't understand how "should they/should they not recast Indy is even up for discussion. Whether they will or won't, I mean. Indiana Jones is not a property that will end with Spielberg and Ford. No way...no how. Someone else WILL play Indy. There is zero chance of that not happening.[/quote]
It's not a question of whether it will happen. I'm sure it will. The question is whether it should, and the answer to that is "fuck no."


- fatherdude - 07-25-2017

I've made my peace with the fact that the property will continue after Spielberg/Ford are gone, but it still rankles to know that they are inevitably going reject the tasteful way of doing so (ANIMATED SERIES), and will just have to try the live-action reboot.  Doubtless we'll end up with the Indy equivalent of the Tom Cruise MUMMY remake.  After they demean the franchise with a few gratuitous indignities like that, they'll probably come up with something non-awful but still wholly unable to justify itself.  Pretty much the best we can hope for, except for being dead before it happens.



Which I'm not ruling out.  I consider it quite plausible that Harrison will still be enjoying wacky near-misses in his airplane at age 105 while we're all succumbing to heart disease.  Dude does seem to boast some superhuman genes.




- fraid uh noman - 07-25-2017

A[quote name="commodorejohn" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/1290#post_4329660"]
It's not a question of whether it will happen. I'm sure it will. The question is whether it should, and the answer to that is "fuck no."[/quote]
All you gotta do is not watch the movie when it happens. That's as easy a solution to so much of this as is possible..


- commodorejohn - 07-25-2017

ABut it would still exist.


- fraid uh noman - 07-25-2017

AI guess I'll never understand why that would bother someone so badly.

I mean...it irks me that, like...TRUMP exists. That's aggravating. But a movie? *shrugs*


- user_32 - 07-25-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post

But it would still exist.


Yeah, but how many reboots/sequels exist that nobody talks about anymore.



Until someone online writes an article about how underrated it is.




- fatherdude - 09-04-2017

AKoepp says "we've got a script we're mostly happy with" and is hoping Spielberg chooses to shoot it as his next project. Bonus: Mutt is not in the script.

http://ew.com/movies/2017/09/04/indiana-jones-5-shia-labeouf-not-returning/


- fraid uh noman - 09-04-2017

ABring
IT
ON


- cylon baby - 09-04-2017

I'll be "that guy" and stick up for Mutt in Crystal Skull. As conceived the character works just fine. What's more natural than a middle aged or later Indy confronted with a James Dean type teenage son? And Shia does a good job with the character too.


What screws the pooch is the whole second half of the movie, when they get to South America. That's not the character's or the actor's fault.



I wonder if the off screen antics of the actor are making people cast shade on the role he played.




- analog olmos - 09-04-2017

A[quote name="Cylon Baby" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/1290#post_4355852"]I'll be "that guy" and stick up for Mutt in Crystal Skull. As conceived the character works just fine. What's more natural than a middle aged or later Indy confronted with a James Dean type teenage son? And Shia does a good job with the character too. 


What screws the pooch is the whole second half of the movie, when they get to South America. That's not the character's or the actor's fault. 

I wonder if the off screen antics of the actor are making people cast shade on the role he played. 
[/quote]

The name sucked. Can't fix that.


- ryoken - 09-04-2017

I still think Indy having a daughter would had been a much better fit, specially if she was like her father, thus making her stand out in 5/60's society (and it would be a great take that/shout out to Lara Croft).


And yes, the movie really goes bad once they move to south america.


Well, we will always have Fate of Atlantis.




- atomtastic - 09-04-2017

I'd much rather have Shia return than have Koepp writing the script.




- fatherdude - 09-04-2017

AEven if Mutt had been universally beloved, there would be a good argument for not bringing him (or Karen Allen) back for more than a cameo. You want Indy to have fresh sidekicks, and him dragging his family along again would make the thing feel weirdly domesticated.

I wouldn't mind them bringing Jim Broadbent back in a bigger role, though.


- atomtastic - 09-04-2017

The big question is who Mark Rylance plays. Friend or foe?




- fatherdude - 09-04-2017

AMy body is ready for pulpy villain Rylance getting fat off some cheap scenery.


- bartleby_scriven - 09-04-2017

You don't need Mutt. What you need is to set the movie in 1969 and have Mutt's daughter, age 10-12, palling around with Indy. Except she's not like her dad, she's a little academic like Indy and is fascinated by the Space Race (of which the movie will be focused, with the MacGuffin being something like a moon rock or some nonsense). That way you get a combination of both Short Round and Henry Jones Sr.



Lucasfilm, call me.




- Belloq87 - 09-04-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomTastic View Post
 

The big question is who Mark Rylance plays. Friend or foe?


Mark Rylance could be a really fun villain if given the opportunity to let loose.  I'd have him as an aging Nazi scientist hanging out in the jungle doing weird experiments that require whatever the MacGuffin is...



... but then I remember that Spielberg will probably never touch Nazis again, unfortunately.  So I guess I'd settle for a generic mad scientist of ambiguous nationality.




- jacknifejohnny - 09-04-2017

AThey're actually doing this? Jesus.


- ryoken - 09-04-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

You don't need Mutt. What you need is to set the movie in 1969 and have Mutt's daughter, age 10-12, palling around with Indy. Except she's not like her dad, she's a little academic like Indy and is fascinated by the Space Race (of which the movie will be focused, with the MacGuffin being something like a moon rock or some nonsense). That way you get a combination of both Short Round and Henry Jones Sr.



Lucasfilm, call me.



Add in a revelation on how Indy loses an eye, and we're set.


Also, you know what I think would make Mutt's return work?


Make him an expy of Temple of Doom's Indy...a treasure hunter and adventurer more about the loot and glory than recovering history or knowledge.


Have him become a Nathan Drake style adventurer who has drifted apart from Indy because of that, and have hsi daughter reunite the two.*


*Have Mutt be the guy in peril, captured by the villains because he found the plot's mcguffin.




- Belloq87 - 09-04-2017

I don't want to see any more of Indy's family for any extended duration.  A quick scene with Marion at the beginning, then off to the races with new characters.




- bartleby_scriven - 09-04-2017

I'm telling you, precocious granddaughter gives Spielberg a chance to tackle the legacy theme again, but do it better this time. Kind of like Creed was a do-over of Rocky V (even though I like Rocky V just fine, Creed is the far superior version).



No Mutt, but his presence can be felt by mentioning how Indy is trying to make up for not being there for his son by overcompensating with his granddaughter. Maybe as a consequence he holds her back from adventure, but she tags along anyway.



Also, have not necessarily the "villain" but a rival be a not-so-thinly veiled James Bond-type spy.




- Paul C - 09-04-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post

Koepp says "we've got a script we're mostly happy with" and is hoping Spielberg chooses to shoot it as his next project. Bonus: Mutt is not in the script.


His enthusiasm certainly has me pumped! "It's pretty decent I guess" Koepp told our reporter, "should pass the time for a couple of hours".




- Stale Elvis - 09-04-2017

All we need is an religious artefact rather than a scientific one as the maguffin, Indy to actually shoot people, blood and in-camera stunts.



Lucasfilm, call me.




- bartleby_scriven - 09-04-2017

I got this shit. Apparently the Vietnamese have the concept of "August Heaven," which is apparently very complex:



http://national-paranormal-society.org/august-heaven-unreasonable-yet-inexorable-belief-in-vietnam-2/



But basically they believed up until the '70s, when the Communist regime forced all mentions of deities to be referred to as "fairies," that all Vietnamese people were descended from a person/thing/place that is called the August Heaven but also the August Moon, and has to do with a dragon mating with a phoenix.



1969. Vietnam War. Moon Landing. August Heaven. Indy's granddaughter.



You know this is the way.