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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

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- scottieferguson - 10-16-2017

God, that backlot shot of the diner with Yale buildings awkwardly and lazily added in the background.  Fridge aside, that's when I knew we were doomed.  A catfight between Willie and Marion with Sallah, Indy, and Short Round trying to stop it could be...  no,strike that, terrible idea.




- fatherdude - 10-19-2017

My personal favorite is the establishing shot of Marshall College.  The footage is lifted directly from RAIDERS, but it's been digitally manipulated to a) fit into Kaminski's terrible color grading scheme for the rest of the movie, and b) replace the 1930s-era cars with digital 1950s cars.



I honestly think that despite the extremely fundamental nature of the movie's writing problems, you'd have a 15% better movie if they had just done some actual shooting in South America.  The fact that all of those backgrounds are plates is incredibly damaging, especially in a series where the globe-trotting nature was part of the point.  I realize the franchise is no stranger to matte paintings and other post-production solutions, but even the smaller-scaled TEMPLE OF DOOM plugged in that great Sri Lanka location footage to give you a sense of being in another place.  In CRYSTAL SKULL you only feel like you're ever being transported from Soundstage A to Studio Lot C.



I remember watching the trailer for CRYSTAL SKULL and thinking that the opening seconds, in which Harrison Ford is narrating over genuine footage from Peru, were reasonably evocative.  Then when you see the finished product it turns out none of those shots are actually in the movie, and you realize that they're from the context of a second unit shoot meant to grab backgrounds to be CGI'd into the bone-stupid waterfall sequence.






- carnotaur3 - 10-19-2017

ABack in the day, we didn’t need to see God’s POV shots of waterfalls to get the point.


- fatherdude - 10-19-2017

AAnd I don't begrudge the movie using effects to achieve the impossible, but there's a difference between using CGI to render a mushroom cloud and using it to create foliage that smacks Shia Labeouf in the balls.  It's doubly insulting to rely so heavily on a hard drive to create your environment in a series that's always had "cinematic throwback" in its DNA. 

Honestly, if someone had told me most of the movie was filmed in front of a green screen THE HOBBIT style, I would have believed it. 

I hope Spielberg is willing to leave the States this time. If you've managed to shoot an Indiana Jones movie without once using your passport, you've utterly dropped the ball.


- Belloq87 - 10-19-2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post

And I don't begrudge the movie using effects to achieve the impossible, but there's a difference between using CGI to render a mushroom cloud and using it to create foliage that smacks Shia Labeouf in the balls.  It's doubly insulting to rely so heavily on a hard drive to create your environment in a series that's always had "cinematic throwback" in its DNA. 

Honestly, if someone had told me most of the movie was filmed in front of a green screen THE HOBBIT style, I would have believed it. 

I hope Spielberg is willing to leave the States this time. If you've managed to shoot an Indiana Jones movie without once using your passport, you've utterly dropped the ball.

All of this.



I recall reading an interview with Spielberg prior to the film coming out, and he was proudly boasting about how they tried to return to the 1980s filmmaking approach of doing almost everything practically and in-camera.  Imagine, then, my shock when the first shot of the fucking film featured a digital creature.  There's no excuse for that, and there's no excuse for the jungle chase featuring a nightmarish digital smear over Kaminski's (overlit and ugly to begin with) cinematography, to say nothing of the ridiculous digital foliage.



There's a reason the campus chase is the best scene in the movie - it's the one you can visibly tell was done the most "for real."  I'm hoping - in addition to venturing to some genuine exotic locales - Spielberg takes that sort of approach for the next film.  I don't need to see the most incredible, bombastic action scenes of the series; just give us some nuts-and-bolts setpieces with real stuntwork and genuine peril, and I'll be satisfied.




- Overlord - 10-19-2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post

I hope Spielberg is willing to leave the States this time.

He's become an incredibly lazy filmmaker.  If the reviews of Indy 4 didn't wake him up, nothing will.  He's more company now, than man.



If the diner chase hadn't ended with that awful Marcus Brody statue "gag," there would at least be one sequence in Indy IV that doesn't cause me physical pain to watch.  The stupid digital gopher at the beginning was a warning to walk out now.




- engineer - 10-19-2017

I thought he bounced back well with THE ADVENTURES OF TINTIN and WAR HORSE.  I even dug THE BFG.


LINCOLN was okay, though I haven't watched BRIDGE OF SPIES yet.




- Overlord - 10-19-2017

I haven't seen War Horse (want to) or Bridge of Spies (may be a loooong time before I do, if ever).

BFG, Tintin, and Lincoln were all boring as fuck, with Tintin being really surprising as you would think it would spark a bit of the old magic.  I barely made it through BFG and can't make the same claim for Lincoln aka The Cure for Insomnia.  Anyone except DDL in the title role and Lincoln would have caused an epidemic of narcoleptic comas throughout the U.S.



- bartleby_scriven - 10-19-2017

ALincoln?
So good.


- mr. stockslivevan - 10-19-2017

AOh come on, LINCOLN was great!


- Overlord - 10-19-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

Lincoln?
So good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

Oh come on, LINCOLN was great!

Maybe fully stocked up on coffee and methamphetamines I'll give it another shot, given such glowing praise!




- Belloq87 - 10-19-2017

LINCOLN is one of Steven Spielberg's best movies.  Period.



Though it ends about 5 minutes after it really should.




- bartleby_scriven - 10-19-2017

AOverlord?
It’s treason, then.


- fatherdude - 10-19-2017

ASpielberg actually stated that he shot Indy 4 in the United Stated because he didn't want to be far from his family. Yet his very next shoot (WAR HORSE) took him to Devon. Methinks his one-time policy on Indy 4 had more to do with his attitude toward the project in general than his suddenly becoming a homebody.


- bradito - 10-19-2017

ACrystal Skull wouldn't have been good wherever they shot it.


- Overlord - 10-19-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

Overlord?
It’s treason, then.

I will make it legal.



Quote:

Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post

Spielberg actually stated that he shot Indy 4 in the United Stated because he didn't want to be far from his family. Yet his very next shoot (WAR HORSE) took him to Devon. Methinks his one-time policy on Indy 4 had more to do with his attitude toward the project in general than his suddenly becoming a homebody.

Or he just has serious spurts of laziness?  For Ready Player One, apparently he has not directly overseen a single post-production shot, instead relying on teleconferencing and assistants.  I think he just doesn't have as much energy as he once did.




- mr. stockslivevan - 10-19-2017

A[quote name="FatherDude" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/1750_50#post_4386824"]Spielberg actually stated that he shot Indy 4 in the United Stated because he didn't want to be far from his family. Yet his very next shoot (WAR HORSE) took him to Devon. Methinks his one-time policy on Indy 4 had more to do with his attitude toward the project in general than his suddenly becoming a homebody.[/quote]

Every time he was promoting Indy 4 in interviews he brought up how he was already done with the series with Indy 3, and it showed.

I have to assume the way Indy 4 turned out is motivating him to make a better send off with Indy 5. That is, I HOPE.


- Overlord - 10-19-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

Crystal Skull wouldn't have been good wherever they shot it.

The script is so flawed in its concept you have to wonder what the fuck happened?  It gets incredibly basic things about Indiana Jones films fundamentally wrong.  He cooperates with the Russians, he's merely retreading the footsteps of Hurt's unfilmed adventure ... many of the action set pieces of either digital or make absolutely no sense ...




- Belloq87 - 10-19-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post

Spielberg actually stated that he shot Indy 4 in the United Stated because he didn't want to be far from his family. Yet his very next shoot (WAR HORSE) took him to Devon. Methinks his one-time policy on Indy 4 had more to do with his attitude toward the project in general than his suddenly becoming a homebody.

I do think some of that may have been rubbed off from Lucas.  I could easily envision Lucas saying something like, "You know, Steven, you really don't have to go through all the trouble of a location shoot.  We can make anywhere we want look like anywhere we need."




- Belloq87 - 10-19-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
 

I will make it legal.



Or he just has serious spurts of laziness?  For Ready Player One, apparently he has not directly overseen a single post-production shot, instead relying on teleconferencing and assistants.  I think he just doesn't have as much energy as he once did.  


Maybe, but at the same time this is a guy who loves to put out two movies in the same year.  He does it a lot.  That's not the mark of a man who isn't feeling energized.




- bartleby_scriven - 10-19-2017

AI will never

Ever

Get over the fact that gun powder is not magnetic.


- Overlord - 10-19-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 

I do think some of that may have been rubbed off from Lucas.  I could easily envision Lucas saying something like, "You know, Steven, you really don't have to go through all the trouble of a location shoot.  We can make anywhere we want look like anywhere we need."



Spielberg should have thrown down his lightsaber and exclaimed "I will never join you."




- Overlord - 10-19-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

I will never

Ever

Get over the fact that gun powder is not magnetic.

Neither is gold.




- bartleby_scriven - 10-19-2017

AYeah, but Indy is surprised when the skull attracts gold.

IT’S HIS IDEA TO USE GUN POWDER IN THE OPENING

stupid fucking movie


- Overlord - 10-19-2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 

Maybe, but at the same time this is a guy who loves to put out two movies in the same year.  He does it a lot.  That's not the mark of a man who isn't feeling energized.



His "directing" apparently has about 5-15% of the actual hands-on work of his prior efforts.  Just look at the Ready Player One example I gave, above.  Not one shot.  Nobody who is actually doing the post production work has even seen or heard from him.  James Cameron, by comparison, is hands-on for every Avatar sequel post-production shot.




- bradito - 10-19-2017

AI've managed to avoid all Ready Player One trailers thus far. I hope to continue this winning streak.


- Belloq87 - 10-19-2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
 


His "directing" apparently has about 5-15% of the actual hands-on work of his prior efforts.  Just look at the Ready Player One example I gave, above.  Not one shot.  Nobody working on post has even seen or heard from him.


READY PLAYER ONE seems like it would be a unique case given so much of the movie is animated.



I would find it hard to believe that he didn't put in as much hands-on work as he did in the past on live action pictures like LINCOLN, BRIDGE OF SPIES, and THE POST, which he just wrapped.




- Overlord - 10-19-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 

READY PLAYER ONE seems like it would be a unique case given so much of the movie is animated.



I would find it hard to believe that he didn't put in as much hands-on work as he did in the past on live action pictures like LINCOLN, BRIDGE OF SPIES, and THE POST, which he just wrapped.


Couldn't say.  Don't know anyone that worked on those films.




- fatherdude - 10-19-2017

A
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
 

Or he just has serious spurts of laziness?  For Ready Player One, apparently he has not directly overseen a single post-production shot, instead relying on teleconferencing and assistants.  I think he just doesn't have as much energy as he once did.

If this is from an article can we get a link? I'm pretty sure directing special effects shots by video-conferencing is pretty standard.  I remember on the DVD for DEAD MAN'S CHEST (so ten years ago) they were showing Gore Verbinski giving fine notes to ILM about a Davy Jones shot via video link, and that seems about as hands-on and low-level as direction of that sort of thing can realistically get.




- Belloq87 - 10-19-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post
 

I'm pretty sure directing special effects shots by video-conferencing is pretty standard.


Especially when you're prepping - and then shooting - a whole other film!




- Overlord - 10-19-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belloq87 View Post
 

Especially when you're prepping - and then shooting - a whole other film!


He moved on to his next film when Ready Player One was basically just entering post.



I mean, I'm not going to tell too many stories out of turn, but just look at how directors normally operate when it comes to directing and finishing films, and look at how Spielberg has operated for a while now, and you can clearly see how he's decided to approach the final phase of his career.




- bluelouboyle - 10-19-2017

ADidn't he supervise post on JURASSIC PARK from Poland while filming SCHINDLERS LIST?


- bartleby_scriven - 10-19-2017

AI wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear, Overlord.


- Belloq87 - 10-19-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post

Didn't he supervise post on JURASSIC PARK from Poland while filming SCHINDLERS LIST?

Correct.  Supposedly George Lucas was his point man at ILM and in the editing room with Michael Kahn.  At the end of a day's shooting, Spielberg would teleconference with the various people involved in JP's post.




- fatherdude - 10-19-2017

AThat's the thing, It's always been Spielberg's style, at least post-1941, to surround himself with talented craftsmen and delegate liberally. I think Spielberg comes from the Hitchcock school of film-making where there's a huge focus on storyboards and collaboration. I'm sure there's a risk of technology taking it to extremes, but I think you can chart this approach far back enough that it's not about getting old.

Spielberg is certainly capable of laziness, but I think it's a project-specific thing. He obviously did not have a burning desire to make Indy 4.