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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

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- carnotaur3 - 03-17-2016

I'm buying a vowel, kid.


I'm buying a vowel.




- user_32 - 03-17-2016

A Star Wars and Indiana Jones film in the same year. John Williams will be busy with what will most likely be his last Star Wars and Indiana Jones scores.




- carnotaur3 - 03-17-2016

Yeah, because the workload might literally get him an obituary listing.



BUT WHAT A WAY TO GO!




- Belloq87 - 03-17-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by User_32 View Post
 

A Star Wars and Indiana Jones film in the same year. John Williams will be busy with what will most likely be his last Star Wars and Indiana Jones scores.


That would be a fantastic way to close out the decade for Williams.  Let's hope it comes to pass.




- Nooj - 03-17-2016

Indiana Jones and The Close Encounters of the Jaws of Azkaban




- carnotaur3 - 03-17-2016

Anybody want to read an Indiana Jones ripoff I wrote called Carter Shay or the Device of Secrets? Instead of an archaeologist, you have a master thief obsessed with metallurgy and technology, and instead of an ancient artifact like the Ark of the Covenant, it's a more recent WWII Die Glocke.



Might get ya salivating for ol' Indy's return. Plus the script has a scene that literally was stolen from me and put in Skyfall with two Komodo Dragons and a dirt pit. I didn't mind until I saw that scene in the film being a bore.




- Nooj - 03-18-2016

AI read the name Carter Shay and immediately imagine Cole Hauser playing the part.


- carnotaur3 - 03-18-2016

AI have no idea, but I had always wanted a younger Scott Bakula!


- fatherdude - 03-18-2016

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK




- JMurdoch - 03-18-2016

A[quote name="FatherDude" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/210#post_4033550"]FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
[/quote]

So, they've learned nothing then.


- carnotaur3 - 03-18-2016

Keopp will do okay. Just don't have him write anything on the fucking set.




- fatherdude - 03-18-2016

I wish I had your optimism.  Consider my crest utterly fallen.




- Paul C - 03-18-2016

AKoepp as a writer is a classic journeyman, he's been involved in dreck and classics. Yeah he did Crystal Skull and The Lost World, but then he also did Jurassic Park and War Of The Worlds, so who knows?

Not a massively inspiring choice admittedly but I wouldn't say he's automatically a write off.


- carnotaur3 - 03-18-2016

Koepp is definite hit or miss, but man... I'll always give him props for Jurassic Park.



ALWAYS




- Stale Elvis - 03-18-2016

ANot inspiring, but the main thing to take away is that Lucas isn't involved. Similar to how TFA differed so much from the prequels, Lucas' non-involvement hopefully distances this from KotCS. And as much as we all enjoyed TFA it wasn't as deep as some of us hoped for - it was more comic book and pulpy - and that's exactly what the Indy franchise needs to return to.

KotCS was rushed through with one of the most untalented but egotistical writer's hands on the rudder - this doesn't.

This isn't a deal breaker in the slightest.


- fatherdude - 03-18-2016

Compare the Darabont draft to Koepp's if you really think it was the story outline that made Koepp's work look bad.  I appreciate the convenience of blaming Lucas for CRYSTAL SKULL, but I'm seeing a lot of self-delusion here.




- commodorejohn - 03-18-2016

AYes, we should all hope for this to be like TFA. We'll start by replacing any actually menacing villains with irritating whiny fuckers, then kill off Indy for no reason other than that we need some cheap drama, then have an endless boring clusterfuck of a final confrontation that goes mostly nowhere while John Williams gamely tries to keep things enjoyable. Sounds good to me!


- Nooj - 03-18-2016

Aoooooh if it's like Forwakens, I'm sure it'll be called

raiders of the last crusade of doom, no skulls


- Stale Elvis - 03-18-2016

A[quote name="commodorejohn" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/200#post_4033590"]Yes, we should all hope for this to be like TFA. We'll start by replacing any actually menacing villains with irritating whiny fuckers, then kill off Indy for no reason other than that we need some cheap drama, then have an endless boring clusterfuck of a final confrontation that goes mostly nowhere while John Williams gamely tries to keep things enjoyable. Sounds good to me![/quote]

Seriously, why the fuck do you find it so hard to enjoy TFA?? You're more like Kylo Ren than Kylo Ren. Booooo everything's black and shit.

Stop being such a fucking misery about it. It wasn't perfect but I'd rather spend another two hours in its company than two hours in yours while you explain why you dislike it.

It was fun.


- fatherdude - 03-18-2016

Also, I appreciate that there are fans of WAR OF THE WORLDS here, but is someone going to make the argument that the screenplay was one of that movie's strengths?  Spielberg's atmosphere work on it is incredible, but in no sense is the material an asset.  Spielberg has made projects work in spite of their scripts, but I wasn't exactly hoping Indy 5 would be another one.




- Stale Elvis - 03-18-2016

AWar of the Worlds was one of Speilberg's lesser movies. Watchable, but nothing in it stood out as amazing.


- agentsands77 - 03-18-2016

A[quote name="Carnotaur3" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/210#post_4033576"]Koepp is definite hit or miss, but man... I'll always give him props for Jurassic Park. 

ALWAYS
[/quote]
I'll give him credit for CARLITO'S WAY.

This is not great news, though. The script for KOTCS reads horribly. No rhythm, no momentum, no wit. I know it was rushed and all, but still.


- Fat Elvis - 03-18-2016

WAR OF THE WORLDS is one of Spielberg's masterpieces.




- commodorejohn - 03-18-2016

A[quote name="Stale Elvis" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/200#post_4033595"]Seriously, why the fuck do you find it so hard to enjoy TFA?? You're more like Kylo Ren than Kylo Ren. Booooo everything's black and shit.

Stop being such a fucking misery about it. It wasn't perfect but I'd rather spend another two hours in its company than two hours in yours while you explain why you dislike it.

It was fun.[/quote]
I find it hard to enjoy because the story is bad fanfic, the villains are contemptible and lame, the structure is a jumbled mess, the action is hit-or-miss, and they killed off a classic character in a deeply unsatisfactory manner for cheap drama because J.J. has no idea how to generate actual pathos.

And I'd rather spend two hours in the company of one of the good SW movies.

Which it wasn't one of.


- Stale Elvis - 03-18-2016

A[quote name="commodorejohn" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/200#post_4033605"]
I find it hard to enjoy because the story is bad fanfic, the villains are contemptible and lame, the structure is a jumbled mess, the action is hit-or-miss, and they killed off a classic character in a deeply unsatisfactory manner for cheap drama because J.J. has no idea how to generate actual pathos.

And I'd rather spend two hours in the company of one of the good SW movies.

Which it wasn't one of.[/quote]

It's a fucking JJ Abrams film - what are you expecting?? We knew it wasn't going to on par with the OT from the get go. You're like the person sitting in McDonald's complaining that the cheeseburger isn't is good as the sirloin you had at the fine dining restaurant while everyone else looks at you and thinks "of course it's fucking not, it's a McDonald's cheeseburger." Yes Han's death was poorly executed and it was a bit slap-dash, but it was fun.

Don't go to McDonald's and complain that the food isn't Michelin star quality.

Jesus.


- agentsands77 - 03-18-2016

AThere are more than enough STAR WARS threads. Please take this rehashed debate elsewhere.


- user_32 - 03-18-2016

AI get the feeling commodorejohn doesn't like The Force Awakens.


- commodorejohn - 03-18-2016

A[quote name="Stale Elvis" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/200#post_4033612"]It's a fucking JJ Abrams film - what are you expecting?? We knew it wasn't going to on par with the OT from the get go. You're like the person sitting in McDonald's complaining that the cheeseburger isn't is good as the sirloin you had at the fine dining restaurant while everyone else looks at you and thinks "of course it's fucking not, it's a McDonald's cheeseburger." Yes Han's death was poorly executed and it was a bit slap-dash, but it was fun.

Don't go to McDonald's and complain that the food isn't Michelin star quality.

Jesus.[/quote]
The notion that it's somehow unfair or unreasonable to compare a sequel to the exact movies it's trying to sell itself as a sequel to is hilarious. Yes, of course we knew it was going to be shitty when J.J. was brought on board. But that's not anything like an excuse.


- Stale Elvis - 03-18-2016

A[quote name="commodorejohn" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/200#post_4033616"]
The notion that it's somehow unfair or unreasonable to compare a sequel to the exact movies it's trying to sell itself as a sequel to is hilarious. Yes, of course we knew it was going to be shitty when J.J. was brought on board. But that's not anything like an excuse.[/quote]

Not trying to excuse the movie - just bewildered that you expected it to be lightweight, it was lightweight and you somehow continue to rag on it when it was everything you knew it was going to be. But yeah, this isn't the place to discuss it, move on.


- commodorejohn - 03-18-2016

AYeah, I can see how discussion of a Disney-backed sequel to a classic Lucasfilm series with Harrison Ford in a major role isn't germane to the discussion of a Disney-backed sequel to a classic Lucasfilm series with Harrison Ford in a major role.


- agentsands77 - 03-18-2016

A[quote name="commodorejohn" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/210#post_4033627"]Yeah, I can see how discussion of a Disney-backed sequel to a classic Lucasfilm series with Harrison Ford in a major role isn't germane to the discussion of a Disney-backed sequel to a classic Lucasfilm series with Harrison Ford in a major role.[/quote]
Kinda germane, sure. But we've had this debate before. Many times.


- user_32 - 03-18-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post
 

Compare the Darabont draft to Koepp's if you really think it was the story outline that made Koepp's work look bad.  I appreciate the convenience of blaming Lucas for CRYSTAL SKULL, but I'm seeing a lot of self-delusion here.



The reason people blame Lucas (and I don't necessarily agree with all the criticism) is that Darabont's draft was rejected solely because he couldn't please Lucas. At least that's Darabont's version.


Quote:

 I spent a year of very determined effort on something I was very excited about, working very closely with Steven Spielberg and coming up with a result that I, and he, felt was terrific. He wanted to direct it as his next movie, and then suddenly the whole thing goes down in flames because George Lucas doesn’t like the script.” A despairing Darabont confronted Lucas directly. “I told him he was crazy. I said, ‘You have a fantastic script. I think you’re insane, George.’ You can say things like that to George, and he doesn’t even blink. He’s one of the most stubborn men I know.”


http://filmschoolrejects.com/features/tales-from-development-hell-frank-darabonts-indiana-jones-and-the-city-of-the-gods.php



All this says about Koepp is that he managed to please three very opinionated, powerful men. The Indiana Jones scripts are basically made out of idea sessions between the three. If Lucas is out of the equation, it does make for a very different dynamic.




- Stale Elvis - 03-18-2016

A[quote name="User_32" url="/community/t/155331/indiana-jones-and-youre-actually-fucking-serious-pre-release-discussion/200#post_4033633"]
The reason people blame Lucas (and I don't necessarily agree with all the criticism) is that Darabont's draft was rejected solely because he couldn't please Lucas. At least that's Darabont's version.

http://filmschoolrejects.com/features/tales-from-development-hell-frank-darabonts-indiana-jones-and-the-city-of-the-gods.php

All this says about Koepp is that he managed to please three very opinionated, powerful men. The Indiana Jones scripts are basically made out of idea sessions between the three. If Lucas is out of the equation, it does make for a very different dynamic. 
[/quote]

I don't think he pleased three, I think he pleased/appeased one who then wore down the other two and that shows.

I don't think there's any way in hell that either Speilberg or Ford could now 7 or 8 years later look at that movie and not see it for what it is. Lucas however will always look at anything with his name on and think it brilliant because after all he's George Lucas™.


- agentsands77 - 03-18-2016

AYeah, though interviews show that Spielberg was the driving force behind many of the film's goofy humor moments.

But the clunky exposition dumps that film the film have to be a Lucas thing.

That said, the original Lucas-approved version of INDY IV, INDIANA JONES AND THE SAUCER MEN FROM MARS, which Spielberg rejected, is an entertaining read and much better than the finished film.


- carnotaur3 - 03-18-2016

AKoepp was in a particular position for sure, and I think Speilberg relented to Lucas. I remember an Oscar red carpet back in 2005 or so where a reporter stopped Spielberg to ask him about JP4 and Indy 5. And he was a bit dismissive and mocking Lucas saying "I can't say anything or oh my George would have my head..." Something to that affect. It was pretty evident he had frustrations going on.