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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

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RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 05-31-2018

(05-31-2018, 02:06 AM)simbob Wrote:
(05-30-2018, 09:01 PM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote:
(05-30-2018, 11:29 AM)Paul C Wrote: I'm pretty sure the thing that finally spurred me to join was people ragging on Last Crusade too much in the pre-release threads, and I was like "this madness must not stand". And I've been fighting that battle ever since...

I've definitely softened on THE LAST CRUSADE over the years. The Ford/Connery dynamic really makes the movie. My gripe then was that it wasn't kinetic and dirty as RAIDERS and TEMPLE OF DOOM and that it cribbed too many elements from RAIDERS, but I now accept the third film for what it is and understand that Spielberg had become a different filmmaker by that point. He wasn't just gonna do another Indy adventure, he needed that father/son dynamic. Seems that's what he tried continuing with CRYSTAL SKULL, but with lesser results.

I still don't think it's this giant disaster of a film that so many make it out to be, but can understand after nearly 20 years it's not the film to bring back Indy. Really hoping Indy V plays out more properly. I will not expect a RAIDERS, but hope we get at least a solid send off better than CRYSTAL SKULL.

The creation of the PG-13 rating really hit Indy hard, especially when it comes to Crystal Skull. It's kind of funny watching them all back-to-back, seeing what they could get away with in Raiders of the Lost Ark, and where it ends up in Crystal Skull.

It's interesting to see Spielberg's "blood lust" dissipate within the five years between TEMPLE and CRUSADE, and then by CRYSTAL SKULL he refused to have Indy kill commies.

But between CRUSADE and CRYSTAL SKULL he did THE LOST WORLD, which may be among his meanest blockbusters. Not only does he kill a dog, he's actually playful with it by making a gag!








RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 05-31-2018

(05-31-2018, 04:08 AM)arjen rudd Wrote: Funny how little that matters now. This next Indy could have a scene where Indy rips off a guy’s arm and beats him to death with it, and it would be PG-13

At this point, so long as the gore/blood isn't excessive, there is no amount of violence, in and of itself, that will bump you from a PG-13 to an R.

Similarly, there is apparently no amount of bloody/gory violence, by itself, that will take you from an R to an NC-17.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - simbob - 05-31-2018

It may just be that Crusade is 1989 and you can't really get away with that stuff in a PG-13 by that point. I think by 2008 PG-13 was basically bloodless besides scratches on a character. Remember being surprised watching Mud a few years later and seeing blood when characters got shot around the end.

He does have blood in his Jurassic Park movies. And Lost World does have that off-screen but still bloody waterfall kill. But something like that guy getting shot in the head during the bar fight in Raiders, and in a close-up, with blood flowing down his face; you probably can't do something like that outside of a R now.

(05-31-2018, 04:19 AM)Overlord Wrote:
(05-31-2018, 04:08 AM)arjen rudd Wrote: Funny how little that matters now. This next Indy could have a scene where Indy rips off a guy’s arm and beats him to death with it, and it would be PG-13

At this point, so long as the gore/blood isn't excessive, there is no amount of violence, in and of itself, that will bump you from a PG-13 to an R.

Similarly, there is apparently no amount of bloody/gory violence, by itself, that will take you from an R to an NC-17.

You say at this point, but what they can do in a PG-13 now is far less than what they could do in a PG before the Pg-13 was a thing, or during the early years of the PG-13. You've basically got to be totally bloodless to get a Pg-13 now, at least in regards to violence happening to people. And blood seemingly can't come while the impact of violence is visible.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Codename - 05-31-2018

(05-31-2018, 04:19 AM)Overlord Wrote:
(05-31-2018, 04:08 AM)arjen rudd Wrote: Funny how little that matters now. This next Indy could have a scene where Indy rips off a guy’s arm and beats him to death with it, and it would be PG-13

At this point, so long as the gore/blood isn't excessive, there is no amount of violence, in and of itself, that will bump you from a PG-13 to an R.

Similarly, there is apparently no amount of bloody/gory violence, by itself, that will take you from an R to an NC-17.

God help you if you flash a tit though...


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 05-31-2018

My only real issue with TEMPLE OF DOOM is with Willie Scott as a character.  She creates an entirely different dynamic with Indy that never quite works.  Rather than being capable on her own (like Marion Ravenwood or even Elsa Schneider), she's a true damsel in distress.  Add in the fact that she's shrill and annoying and you've got problems.

Still, TOD has the second best moment in all of the Indy films:




If you have to ask what the 'best' moment is, then you have my pity.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Nooj - 05-31-2018

eyy... if a movie is going to indulge in so much problematic stuff with such gusto, I'll take a super-heightened damsel in distress along with it! right up to the end with Indy literally using his whip to drag her back to him for the big ending kiss with all the children and elephant cheering!

it would be weird for a movie with SO MANY QUESTIONABLE ELEMENTS to back track off JUST that... especially when it's a movie quite literally built on almost every regressive trope from Spielberg/Lucas's favorite serials and playing them up HARD

WHAT A GLORIOUS MOVIE

I love even Willie and Capshaw's game performance!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bartleby_scriven - 05-31-2018

ToD has the best "Indy is scared of snakes" moment. Harrison Ford, GREAT ACTOR CONTRARY TO THE OPINION OF ALIEN 3 HATERS, has some great slapstick antics in that scene.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Stale Elvis - 05-31-2018

Temple of Doom has so many great moments (the spike room is so good) but the movie just feels off to me - as soon as they reach Pankot Palace the whole thing just reeks of being shot on soundstages.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Nooj - 05-31-2018

when I watched the bluray on my friend's huge projection screen, I don't recall feeling the soundstagey-ness! Slocombe's work in the movie is so LUSH!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 05-31-2018

I agree with Nooj.  TEMPLE may be soundstage heavy, but it's always visually interesting, and every ounce of potential is wrung out of the location shooting it does boast.

CRYSTAL SKULL is what an Indiana Jones movie shot on a soundstage looks like.  Thanks to the gauzy and glowy style they concocted, Spielberg and Kaminski managed to make even the location work look like sets. Often, digital ones.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Nooj - 05-31-2018

eeuuughhh digital grading....


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - arjen rudd - 05-31-2018

I think the screaming dancehall girl was a legitimate choice, and very much in keeping with the gloriously regressive conceit of the film. At the least, it’s a dramatic contrast with Marion.

I just think they cast the wrong person. Someone like Goldie Hawn might have made all the difference.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - call me roy - 05-31-2018

I’m about to turn on Temple of Doom on Amazon Prime. Sunday I watched Last Crusade as a hangover movie and I hadn’t check it out in at least 15 years. Loved it more than ever. That tank chase scene with accompanying score, Jesus so good. And Connery is on fire in this.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 05-31-2018

(05-31-2018, 11:17 AM)arjen rudd Wrote: I think the screaming dancehall girl was a legitimate choice, and very much in keeping with the gloriously regressive conceit of the film. At the least, it’s a dramatic contrast with Marion.

I just think they cast the wrong person. Someone like Goldie Hawn might have made all the difference.

Oh hell yeah, good call on Goldie Hawn.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bartleby_scriven - 05-31-2018

Especially considering she was in Sugarland Express, one could suspect she was courted for the role at some point.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Stale Elvis - 05-31-2018

Wasn't Goldie Hawn too much of a star in her own right by 84 to play second fiddle to Ford? Plus wasn't that star staring to fade by then?


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Dent6084 - 05-31-2018

(05-31-2018, 11:23 AM)call me roy Wrote: I’m about to turn on Temple of Doom on Amazon Prime. Sunday I watched Last Crusade as a hangover movie and I hadn’t check it out in at least 15 years. Loved it more than ever. That tank chase scene with accompanying score, Jesus so good. And Connery is on fire in this.

The tank chase score is one of the best action tracks ever. So damn great.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bartleby_scriven - 05-31-2018

(05-31-2018, 11:54 AM)Stale Elvis Wrote: Wasn't Goldie Hawn too much of a star in her own right by 84 to play second fiddle to Ford? Plus wasn't that star staring to fade by then?

Well, Private Benjamin was her biggest hit in 1980. But considering by 1984 she was in her late 30s, Hollywood being how it is she probably wasn't a consideration.

But I wouldn't be surprised if Spielberg was looking for a Hawn type when he got the eight-years-younger Capshaw.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - call me roy - 05-31-2018

Edited: Diane Lane or Kim Catrall would have been a fit I think, younger but still able to go with a bit more range with a proper script.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 05-31-2018

(05-31-2018, 10:31 AM)bartleby_scriven Wrote: Harrison Ford, GREAT ACTOR CONTRARY TO THE OPINION OF ALIEN 3 HATERS

Is this aimed at me, you scruffy lookin' nerf herder? Because I've never denied Ford's acting talent. I just lament that we had a long, long spell in which he chose to not actually use any of that talent but just played "Harrison Ford, Movie Star" (see: Air Force One, the Jack Ryan movies,  etc.).


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bartleby_scriven - 05-31-2018

(05-31-2018, 01:21 PM)MichaelM Wrote:
(05-31-2018, 10:31 AM)bartleby_scriven Wrote: Harrison Ford, GREAT ACTOR CONTRARY TO THE OPINION OF ALIEN 3 HATERS

Is this aimed at me, you scruffy lookin' nerf herder? Because I've never denied Ford's acting talent. I just lament that we had a long, long spell in which he chose to not actually use any of that talent but just played "Harrison Ford, Movie Star" (see: Air Force One, the Jack Ryan movies,  etc.).

Haha, everyone who keeps thinking I'm subtweeting them, I'm not subtweeting you.

Check out the Solo thread about two weeks ago to see who threw Harrison Ford under the bus.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 05-31-2018

I'm not looking at any Solo threads because I've avoided spoilers thus far!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bartleby_scriven - 05-31-2018

Well well well


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Richard Dickson - 05-31-2018

I still think Crystal Skull is a pretty great Indy movie until they get to South America.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - commodorejohn - 05-31-2018

(05-31-2018, 11:17 AM)arjen rudd Wrote: I think the screaming dancehall girl was a legitimate choice, and very much in keeping with the gloriously regressive conceit of the film. At the least, it’s a dramatic contrast with Marion.
See, the problem isn't that "screaming damsel in distress" is out of keeping with a throwback adventure serial. It's that we already got something vastly better in the first movie - a female lead who fits the milieu just as well, but is likeable, capable, and interesting, and who always tries her damnedest to deal with the situation despite being in over her head. After Marion, a character like Willie would've been a step down no matter who they cast.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Nooj - 05-31-2018

funny thing is that Marion is also often the screaming damsel in distress

"INDDDYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!"

obviously more game for action than Willie, but it feels like people have overblown Marion's agency a bit in order to criticize Willie


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bartleby_scriven - 05-31-2018

I like Willie. She's fun. I've never really gotten the problem with her!

But Temple of Doom was the one I watched the most as a kid because it was on HBO all the time.

And really, the real love story in Temple of Doom is between Indy and Short Round. Willie is just the comic sidekick, so she's supposed to be a hot mess.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - commodorejohn - 05-31-2018

I mean, yeah, she freaks out, but she never just turns into a useless shrieking lump.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 05-31-2018

(05-31-2018, 01:33 PM)Richard Dickson Wrote: I still think Crystal Skull is a pretty great Indy movie until they get to South America.

I thought it was pretty good up until the idiotic CGI gopher "joke."  Then I was willing to give it the benefit of the doubt until Indy shows up in the trunk of a car and proceeds to embark on a mini-quest that's related to the main quest (in Indy movies, the prologues are never related to the main stories) and does so by helping the bad guys (Indy doesn't help the bad guys). 

At that point I was already halfway checked out.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - call me roy - 05-31-2018

Another reason for Willie hate probably is she is immediately used as leverage against the bad guy BY Indy in the opening scene. That on top of her being a real fish out of water out of the city and her and Indy having zero history together can make her appear as a damsel.

I just finished ToD and enjoyed it. In my opinion it ranks third out of the first three (4 is just not on my radar) but not because of any filmmaking incompetence or distaste in general.

They went with more of a horror/supernatural tone and it called for less of a globetrotting exploit and one more centered and, somewhat accidental (Indy was merely on his way to Delhi when tasked with his mission).

Also with this being a prequel to Raiders it has always felt like it’s own self contained film, with Crusade creating a nice bookend along with Raiders. I’m actually quite tempted to watch Crusade again sometime soon as a back to back with Raiders. A rerelease would be great the way they did Raiders on IMAX a few years back.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Nooj - 05-31-2018

(05-31-2018, 01:48 PM)commodorejohn Wrote: I mean, yeah, she freaks out, but she never just turns into a useless shrieking lump.

hey now!  who got them out of the spike room???

who led to Ford's wonderful delivery of WE ARE GOINNNNG TO DIIIE!!!!  Sad


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 05-31-2018

Crusade suffers from some truly terrible green screen effects and a "been there, done that" feeling with some of the setpieces, but it's overall a great Indy story and a fitting bookend for the series.

I'm not sure why you all keep talking about a fourth movie. They never made one. I'm sure I would have seen it if they had.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Nooj - 05-31-2018

ya'll need to accept that there is a fourth movie

this denial is cowardice!!!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bartleby_scriven - 05-31-2018

Crystal Skull is fine.

It would be finer if magnets attracted gun powder.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 05-31-2018

(05-31-2018, 02:11 PM)Nooj Wrote: who led to Ford's wonderful delivery of WE ARE GOINNNNG TO DIIIE!!!!  Sad

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