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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

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RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - arjen rudd - 09-12-2019

It’s strange how difficult it’s proved to make a proper adventure film. So rarely do they get the tone right. The 80s is littered with failed attempts, the Allan Quatermain films, Year of the Comet, High Road to China (with erstwhile Indy Tom Selleck), all failed and forgotten.

Which is a shame, as I’m a sucker for them.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Paul C - 09-12-2019

It took Brendan's Mummy to perfect the formula...


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 09-12-2019

(09-12-2019, 10:26 AM)arjen rudd Wrote: It’s strange how difficult it’s proved to make a proper adventure film. So rarely do they get the tone right. The 80s is littered with failed attempts, the Allan Quatermain films, Year of the Comet, High Road to China (with erstwhile Indy Tom Selleck), all failed and forgotten.

Which is a shame, as I’m a sucker for them.

HIGH ROAD TO CHINA is pretty good, as I recall.  Not great but worth a watch if you're flipping around the channels and come across it.  LASSITER was another Seleck film from the early 80s that fits that bill as well.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 09-12-2019

Haven't seen either of those but have always had a soft spot for Selleck in QUIGLEY DOWN UNDER (which features, in its climactic scene, perhaps the most egregious lighting continuity error I've seen in any movie).


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - scottieferguson - 09-12-2019





The score is fantastic, though.

Random dumb Indy thought of the day.  Recast for the first two acts, then have him get decked or something, 50 years later, and pull a Last Crusade River Phoenix to Indy transition for the finale. Harrison shows up, people go nuts. Always loved that transition.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 09-12-2019

QDU is a hoot. Fun turn by Alan Rickman in that one.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - commodorejohn - 09-12-2019

Yeah, Quigley Down Under is pretty great.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-12-2019

Quigley is a decent watch.

I have long bemoaned the dearth if adventure films from Hollywood, even in their heyday of the 80s. It's a tough genre to nail, apparently.

If you are a completionist, track down Secret of the Incas. Heston plays a proto Indiana Jones and is Lucas's obvious inspiration, right down to leather jacket and hat.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_of_the_Incas


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Misfit - 09-12-2019

This conversation jogged a vague memory of going to see JAKE SPEED when I was a kid. I just watched the trailer and had completely forgotten that John Hurt played the villain.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 09-12-2019

It jogged my memory of just how fucking awful those Allan Quartermain movies with Richard Chamberlain are.

Even back then - when I liked some pretty atrocious movies - the Quartermain flicks had a huge stink on them and I was flabbergasted a friend of mine liked them unironically.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 09-12-2019

(09-12-2019, 03:21 PM)MichaelM Wrote: It jogged my memory of just how fucking awful those Allan Quartermain movies with Richard Chamberlain are.

Even back then - when I liked some pretty atrocious movies - the Quartermain flicks had a huge stink on them and I was flabbergasted a friend of mine liked them unironically.

Those are legitimately terrible.  Avoid at all costs.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 09-12-2019

That was one the first times I had to navigate someone I knew and really respected liking films that I knew were objectively terrible. I was horrified that he found them entertaining without also finding them shitty.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - commodorejohn - 09-12-2019

The 1950 King Solomon's Mines isn't too bad though, IIRC. Lovely cinematography.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 09-12-2019

I've caught part of the Granger flicks. Not really for me, but my impression is that they're not as overtly terrible as the Chamberlain version.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-12-2019

(09-12-2019, 03:21 PM)MichaelM Wrote: It jogged my memory of just how fucking awful those Allan Quartermain movies with Richard Chamberlain are.

Even back then - when I liked some pretty atrocious movies - the Quartermain flicks had a huge stink on them and I was flabbergasted a friend of mine liked them unironically.

After rewatching Indy so many times, I can totally remember endlessly perusing the aisles of my local video store and trying to find similar films just going by the covers.  So many fucking stinkers that I tried to force myself to find palatable, like the Quartermain movies, High Road to China, Firewalker, Tennessee Buck, Jungle Raiders, Treasure of the Four Crowns .... ugh.

I actually did NOT find Romancing the Stone that way, as I thought the title sounded dumb as an elementary school kid (Romance?  Ewwww).  My parents convinced me I would like it and it ended up being by far the best of the quasi knock-offs of Indiana Jones. 

Charlton Heston as Indy:

[Image: Steele-y-Jones.jpg]


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 09-12-2019

(09-12-2019, 03:53 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(09-12-2019, 03:21 PM)MichaelM Wrote: It jogged my memory of just how fucking awful those Allan Quartermain movies with Richard Chamberlain are.

Even back then - when I liked some pretty atrocious movies - the Quartermain flicks had a huge stink on them and I was flabbergasted a friend of mine liked them unironically.

After rewatching Indy so many times, I can totally remember endlessly perusing the aisles of my local video store and trying to find similar films just going by the covers.  So many fucking stinkers that I tried to force myself to find palatable, like the Quartermain movies, High Road to China, Firewalker, Tennessee Buck, Jungle Raiders, Treasure of the Four Crowns .... ugh.

Oh fuck yes!  I remember this one!  The only reason to see it, that I recall, was for the 3D.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-12-2019

(09-12-2019, 03:43 PM)commodorejohn Wrote: The 1950 King Solomon's Mines isn't too bad though, IIRC. Lovely cinematography.

(09-12-2019, 03:56 PM)Judas Booth Wrote:
(09-12-2019, 03:53 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(09-12-2019, 03:21 PM)MichaelM Wrote: It jogged my memory of just how fucking awful those Allan Quartermain movies with Richard Chamberlain are.

Even back then - when I liked some pretty atrocious movies - the Quartermain flicks had a huge stink on them and I was flabbergasted a friend of mine liked them unironically.

After rewatching Indy so many times, I can totally remember endlessly perusing the aisles of my local video store and trying to find similar films just going by the covers.  So many fucking stinkers that I tried to force myself to find palatable, like the Quartermain movies, High Road to China, Firewalker, Tennessee Buck, Jungle Raiders, Treasure of the Four Crowns .... ugh.

Oh fuck yes!  I remember this one!  The only reason to see it, that I recall, was for the 3D.

UGGGGGGGGHHHHH

[Image: Treasure-Four-Crowns-270x400.jpg]

[Image: 519GY76R7WL._SY445_.jpg]


**Another Indiana Clone Judas pointed out: Sky Pirates


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 09-12-2019

Funny how the only film to really even come close to getting the Indy spirit right was THE MUMMY (1999). God, what a fun movie that is.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-12-2019

(09-12-2019, 04:14 PM)Judas Booth Wrote: Funny how the only film to really even come close to getting the Indy spirit right was THE MUMMY (1999).  God, what a fun movie that is.

Eh.  I think Romancing the Stone and to a certain extent National Treasure did pretty well, too.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 09-12-2019

(09-12-2019, 04:18 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(09-12-2019, 04:14 PM)Judas Booth Wrote: Funny how the only film to really even come close to getting the Indy spirit right was THE MUMMY (1999).  God, what a fun movie that is.

Eh.  I think Romancing the Stone and to a certain extent National Treasure did pretty well, too.

yep, you're right on RtS for sure.  Spaced on that one.  I haven't seen either of the NT movies in a while so I can't comment.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Richard Dickson - 09-12-2019

Wait, MORRICONE did the score for Treasure of the Four Crowns?!?


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-12-2019

(09-12-2019, 04:40 PM)Richard Dickson Wrote: Wait, MORRICONE did the score for Treasure of the Four Crowns?!?

You'll be disappointed to know, Dickson, that not only has Treasure of the Four Crowns never received a properly remastered 4k/HDR release, it's never even received a home video release other than 4:3 pan and scan on VHS.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 09-12-2019

(09-12-2019, 04:40 PM)Richard Dickson Wrote: Wait, MORRICONE did the score for Treasure of the Four Crowns?!?

He must have owed somebody a favor in a big way.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-12-2019

(09-12-2019, 04:55 PM)Judas Booth Wrote:
(09-12-2019, 04:40 PM)Richard Dickson Wrote: Wait, MORRICONE did the score for Treasure of the Four Crowns?!?

He must have owed somebody a favor in a big way.

Even a legendary composer's gotta eat.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - somewhere - 09-12-2019

(09-12-2019, 02:34 PM)Overlord Wrote: If you are a completionist, track down Secret of the Incas.  Heston plays a proto Indiana Jones and is Lucas's obvious inspiration, right down to leather jacket and hat.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_of_the_Incas

Seconded!  I remember it as a pretty good watch for that Heston fix, and has several neat sequences that are also riffed on in Raiders.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-12-2019

(09-12-2019, 05:06 PM)somewhere Wrote:
(09-12-2019, 02:34 PM)Overlord Wrote: If you are a completionist, track down Secret of the Incas.  Heston plays a proto Indiana Jones and is Lucas's obvious inspiration, right down to leather jacket and hat.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_of_the_Incas

Seconded!  I remember it as a pretty good watch for that Heston fix, and has several neat sequences that are also riffed on in Raiders.

As an attorney I don't say this lightly, but unless there was a deal in the background the people who owned the rights to Secret of the Incas probably should have sued George Lucas.

JUST FOUND THIS:

https://www.cracked.com/article_19852_5-famous-movies-that-shamelessly-ripped-off-obscure-ones.html

**It would appear that probably the biggest reason why the owners of the Secret of the Incas rights didn't sue Lucas, et al is that the owner is Paramount, the studio that produced the Indiana Jones series.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Jones - 09-12-2019

Nah but he's wearing the hat totally differently, so it's fine Smile


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 09-12-2019

The National Treasure movies are fun because they're really dumb and have Nicolas Cage in them. They in no way approach the actual fun (i.e., fun you don't have to embarrassed about) of RAIDERS or 1999's THE MUMMY.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - simbob - 09-13-2019

(09-11-2019, 01:51 PM)Judas Booth Wrote:
(09-11-2019, 01:47 PM)fatherdude Wrote: I contend CRYSTAL SKULL would have been far less disappointing if it was an aggressive bad movie.  A big swing and a miss.  The low-level apathy of what we got was kind of dumbfounding in a strange, insulting way.  A bad Indiana Jones movie should be bad with some goddamn zest.  There are way more excuses for a bad Indy adventure than a dull one.

KotCS feels like a film that exactly one person wanted to make and everyone else just took one for the team and said 'sure, why not.'  There's no real enthusiasm on display from anyone.  The direction is competent and the acting is reasonable (if unremarkable) from everyone.  You put forth passable effort, you're gonna get a passable film if you're good at your job.

I do wonder if there's a better version of Crystal Skull on the editing room floor. One with more energy anyways. I do remember watching it for the first time at home and being totally surprised the take of Indiana Jones saying "Part time" wasn't the one in the trailer, (when in the trailer that was like this big moment) but instead some listless lazy version in the final film.

It's also weird because a few years later Spielberg would do all these things in a Tintin movie that would've been vastly more impressive in a live action movie. It's like just use some miniatures and do that Castle of Cagliostro chase you've being dying to do in your fucking Indy movie Steven.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 09-13-2019

There isn't.  Koepp's script is out there, and the final product faithfully replicated its lifeless storytelling. I am not saying a more engaged Spielberg couldn't have taken advantage of some obvious missed opportunities during production, but the limpness is right in the raw materials.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Stale Elvis - 09-13-2019

There’s a shot near the beginning of the movie where Indy whips the rifle out of some Ruskie’s hand. He does it towards the camera and it’s such a limp and lifeless action when compared to Indy holding off the goons with his whip while throwing Marion into the cart in Raiders.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 09-13-2019

That possibly comes off worse than it should because a gag is edited out of it.  The way the scene was filmed, Indy actually tugs on the trigger, causing the Ruskie to inadvertently shoot his comrade as he is getting up off the floor (the one Indy punched), and then Indy disarms him with another tug.  Deleting that initial beat may have given it an awkward effect.

Given the overall bloodlessness of the movie, you cannot help but wonder if violent stuff was deliberately targeted by Spielberg when making cuts.  You can see the missing part of the scene being filmed in a behind the scenes featurette.

Spielberg also cut out a bit where Indy initially refuses to help Spalko locate the crate, and he capitulates only after she has Mac held down behind a jeep with a solider preparing to back up onto his head.  That moment would have prevented the baffling implication of Indy helping the Soviets under no protest whatsoever, but the bigger problem, as has been pointed out, is that Indy isn't even up to anything when he convinces the Soviets to hand over their gunpowder.

It is a total misread of Indy's character for him to not be attempting some sort of plan, no matter how hare-brained.  That he ends up just punching a guy when he is not looking was the most unimaginative possible way to kick off the escape sequence.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 09-13-2019

I hadn't heard about those cuts, but that's ridiculous. Spielberg had to have removed that stuff deliberately to soften things.

I'm also reminded of Indy's baffled reaction when Mutt attempts their escape from the Soviet camp before ending up in the sand pit -- he seems annoyed and uninterested in trying to escape. That's not Indy.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 09-13-2019

Agreed.  Giving Mutt the initiative was so obviously for the sake of setting up Indy for a Henry Sr. moment ("This is intolerable!"), but you don't undermine the character in his own movie for the sake of a cute callback.

All the Act III stuff where Indy is following Oxley's lead is equally ridiculous.  I think it was Overlord who pointed out that John Hurt had the actual Indiana Jones adventure before the movie takes place.  And they still could have kept that overall idea and just given Indy proactive moments along the way.  They are being chased by a killer tribe!  How's Indy gonna get them out of this!  Oh, the skull just scares them off. Here is the obelisk puzzle that flummoxed Oxley last time!  Now Indy will work out the secret!  Oh, it was solved off screen.  Asinine.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-13-2019

(09-13-2019, 10:58 AM)fatherdude Wrote: Agreed.  Giving Mutt the initiative was so obviously for the sake of setting up Indy for a Henry Sr. moment ("This is intolerable!"), but you don't undermine the character in his own movie for the sake of a cute callback.

All the Act III stuff where Indy is following Oxley's lead is equally ridiculous.  I think it was Overlord who pointed out that John Hurt had the actual Indiana Jones adventure before the movie takes place.  And they still could have kept that overall idea and just given Indy proactive moments along the way.  They are being chased by a killer tribe!  How's Indy gonna get them out of this!  Oh, the skull just scares them off. Here is the obelisk puzzle that flummoxed Oxley last time!  Now Indy will work out the secret!  Oh, it was solved off screen.  Asinine.

Good memory!  It was me!

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