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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

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RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - carnotaur3 - 09-13-2019

I suppose Spielberg was attempting to have Indy 4 being “How Indy got his groove back” but it never goes there and just feels like it’s trying to prop Mutt up for the just the fake out passing the torch gag at the end. Not worth a whole movie set up to castrate Indy’s Character


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 09-13-2019

You know like in most movies we see a character demonstrate some particular skill in the first act (Marty McFly is good at riding a skateboard, Ripley can operate a power loader, etc.), and that skill actually comes in handy later in the movie? It always bugged me that it's mentioned in dialogue that Mutt is good at fencing, then later he gets in a swordfight.

Completely ruins the film!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - carnotaur3 - 09-13-2019

It’s a pretty lame sword fight. You can’t even see it with all the CG leaves everywhere.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 09-13-2019

(09-13-2019, 08:03 PM)carnotaur3 Wrote: You can’t even see it with all the CG leaves everywhere.

This is one of the more infuriating things about that whole jungle chase. If you watch the behind-the-scenes footage, the actual location looks GREAT. But then ILM decided to literally smear digital nonsense all over it.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-13-2019

(09-13-2019, 08:21 PM)Belloq87 Wrote:
(09-13-2019, 08:03 PM)carnotaur3 Wrote: You can’t even see it with all the CG leaves everywhere.

This is one of the more infuriating things about that whole jungle chase.  If you watch the behind-the-scenes footage, the actual location looks GREAT.  But then ILM decided to literally smear digital nonsense all over it.

Really?  Huh.  That's pretty damn interesting.  I can't say I've ever watched any of the "extras" in regards to Crystal Skull, but I think I'll see if this snippet is on youtube.

If it looked good, why the hell change it?


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 09-13-2019

Likely because you could clearly see that the chase was unfolding along a very delineated path, and even with the jungle cutting machine the movie established (also, how do you NOT drop a Soviet goon into those blades at some point, or have Indy on the verge of falling into them?), it probably looked too "clean."

I think it would have been perfectly acceptable, especially with that cutter in-story justification. After all the effects work, that whole sequence is hard for me to watch. Bizarre lighting from Kaminski at points, too.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-13-2019

(09-13-2019, 08:25 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: Likely because you could clearly see that the chase was unfolding along a very delineated path, and even with the jungle cutting machine the movie established (also, how do you NOT drop a Soviet goon into those blades at some point, or have Indy on the verge of falling into them?), it probably looked too "clean."

I think it would have been perfectly acceptable, especially with that cutter in-story justification.  After all the effects work, that whole sequence is hard for me to watch.  Bizarre lighting from Kaminski at points, too.

I'm watching some of it on youtube trying to find the behind-the-scenes stuff you're referring to, and it is physically painful how bad it looks.  The lighting, the weird digital "blurring," it just looks dreadful.  

It'd be one thing to say "Spielberg had just lost it by that point," but he made War Horse 3 years later!  Obviously his ability wasn't the problem!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Stale Elvis - 09-13-2019

War Horse is right up there with Indy 4 for me.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 09-13-2019

Visually, WAR HORSE looks way more like an Indiana Jones movie should look than CRYSTAL SKULL does.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-13-2019

(09-13-2019, 08:35 PM)Stale Elvis Wrote: War Horse is right up there with Indy 4 for me.

"Up there," or "down there?"


Do you think Indy IV is better than we give it credit for or War Horse worse?


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 09-13-2019

WAR HORSE is a terrific, throwback melodrama.  INDY 4 isn't fit to shine its shoes.  Visually, WAR HORSE showcases a number of Kaminski mainstays, but 1) they are far less inappropriate than in Indiana Jones and 2) there is actual location shooting.  Devon > LA soundstage


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-13-2019

(09-13-2019, 09:02 PM)fatherdude Wrote: WAR HORSE is a terrific, throwback melodrama.  INDY 4 isn't fit to shine its shoes.  Visually, WAR HORSE showcases a number of Kaminski mainstays, but 1) they are far less inappropriate than in Indiana Jones and 2) there is actual location shooting.  Devon > LA soundstage

Agreed on all counts.

**An edited version of Crystal Skull with some of the cringiest scenes removed and a "de-gloss filter" applied to the entirety of the cinematography would probably be of interest to me.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 09-13-2019

Ain't gonna tolerate shit talking about War Horse. It's very, very good and if anyone else besides the Beard had done it, it'd be considered a modern classic, even if a minor one.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-13-2019

(09-13-2019, 09:18 PM)MichaelM Wrote: Ain't gonna tolerate shit talking about War Horse. It's very, very good and if anyone else besides the Beard had done it, it'd be considered a modern classic, even if a minor one.

I didn't think he still had it in him!

What would have been THE defining film of a great many directors' careers is a mere footnote in Spielberg's.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 09-13-2019

It's a terrific movie.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-13-2019

I thought WAR HORSE was alright, but it was GORGEOUS looking. Gorgeous in a way classic cinema looked in the Hollywood Golden Age. Gorgeous in a way INDY 4 should have looked.

But yeah, it's no lie that INDY 4 used a lot of practical effects keeping in line with the first three, but somewhere in post-production I think Lucas had his digital wizards hijack it.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Stale Elvis - 09-13-2019

War Horse makes my skin crawl.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - simbob - 09-13-2019

(09-13-2019, 08:21 PM)Belloq87 Wrote:
(09-13-2019, 08:03 PM)carnotaur3 Wrote: You can’t even see it with all the CG leaves everywhere.

This is one of the more infuriating things about that whole jungle chase.  If you watch the behind-the-scenes footage, the actual location looks GREAT.  But then ILM decided to literally smear digital nonsense all over it.

Yeah, this is a thing that ruins a lot of stuff now. That skydiving scene in the latest Mission: Impossible is the same thing; they actually did it, it looked great, but then they added so much CGI to it that it looks like a cartoon and they may as well as just faked it to begin with.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - noirheaven - 09-14-2019

(09-10-2019, 10:04 AM)fatherdude Wrote: A story is making the rounds that the writers of A QUIET PLACE were invited by Lucasfilm to pitch on STAR WARS and INDIANA JONES.  They ultimately turned down being assimilated into the franchise Borg, and I think this spitballing would have been for post-Ford projects as opposed to INDIANA JONES 5, which we can only hope has a script that is at the spell-checking phase, but it's interesting nonetheless.

WEST SIDE STORY will wrap in a few weeks, so it's kind of now or never for INDIANA JONES 5.  The thing is slated for an April 2020 shoot, so if this movie is getting made, we should be getting meaningful updates in the near future about a completed script and/or prep work getting underway.  Any "delay" that occurs now, whether it be script problems or Spielberg deciding to squeeze in another project, is cancellation by another name.

Agreed. If this is not shooting by midsummer 2020 then it almost surely is not happening at all. The clock is now ticking. If we have not heard any updates by January 1 it will be difficult to believe that this is still going to make its 18-months-hence (at that point) presently scheduled release date.

(09-11-2019, 10:39 AM)Belloq87 Wrote:
(09-11-2019, 09:41 AM)Neil Spurn Wrote: I think Speilberg got rid of his horror bug by ghost-directing Poltergeist.

Not really, surprisingly enough.  In the mid '90s, he was involved in trying to get a new adaption of THE HAUNTING OF HILL HOUSE off the ground as director; the project morphed and he eventually was no longer able to direct it, so that's how we ended up with Jan De Bont's version from DreamWorks in 1999.

There's also conjecture that Stephen King's ROSE RED miniseries was born out of conversations King and Spielberg had about collaborating on an original haunted house film.

(09-11-2019, 10:57 AM)fatherdude Wrote: Yeah I wouldn't count out Spielberg doing a horror film.  POLTERGEIST apparently led him to veto a haunted castle concept for the second and then third INDY, but that was based more on how close together the productions were than any objection on principle, I believe.

This is fascinating, and backs up what I have perceived personally, as Spielberg has just very recently been putting together a number of horror projects for Amblin. He still seems possessed by certain inclinations toward horror, to the point where I keep thinking that he's either going to have INDY V be something of a horror picture in some ways, or he'll find some other way to get it out of his system directorially to show the kids like James Wan how it's done. (No offense to Wan, who at his best is excellent; a mere figure of speech.) 

(09-12-2019, 03:53 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(09-12-2019, 03:21 PM)MichaelM Wrote: It jogged my memory of just how fucking awful those Allan Quartermain movies with Richard Chamberlain are.

Even back then - when I liked some pretty atrocious movies - the Quartermain flicks had a huge stink on them and I was flabbergasted a friend of mine liked them unironically.

After rewatching Indy so many times, I can totally remember endlessly perusing the aisles of my local video store and trying to find similar films just going by the covers.  So many fucking stinkers that I tried to force myself to find palatable, like the Quartermain movies, High Road to China, Firewalker, Tennessee Buck, Jungle Raiders, Treasure of the Four Crowns .... ugh.

I actually did NOT find Romancing the Stone that way, as I thought the title sounded dumb as an elementary school kid (Romance?  Ewwww).  My parents convinced me I would like it and it ended up being by far the best of the quasi knock-offs of Indiana Jones. 

Charlton Heston as Indy:

[Image: Steele-y-Jones.jpg]

Secret of the Incas, while no Raiders of the Lost Ark, is a fascinating, solid adventure film, a kind of Saturday matinee picture which undoubtedly inspired George Lucas. 

Also: in one of your other posts, you put together a fine enumeration of certain "Indiana Jones movies tropes" which is worth revisiting, particularly if an INDY 5 is to be created over the next 22 months.

Just took another look at Tennessee Buck and the painfully-tedious Firewalker. Buck is at least so haphazardly goofy and ostensibly wallowing in its awfulness that it was not terribly boring, but Firewalker is incredibly dull from beginning to end. Its 105 minutes are interminable. 

(09-13-2019, 09:37 AM)fatherdude Wrote: That possibly comes off worse than it should because a gag is edited out of it.  The way the scene was filmed, Indy actually tugs on the trigger, causing the Ruskie to inadvertently shoot his comrade as he is getting up off the floor (the one Indy punched), and then Indy disarms him with another tug.  Deleting that initial beat may have given it an awkward effect.

Given the overall bloodlessness of the movie, you cannot help but wonder if violent stuff was deliberately targeted by Spielberg when making cuts.  You can see the missing part of the scene being filmed in a behind the scenes featurette.

Spielberg also cut out a bit where Indy initially refuses to help Spalko locate the crate, and he capitulates only after she has Mac held down behind a jeep with a solider preparing to back up onto his head.  That moment would have prevented the baffling implication of Indy helping the Soviets under no protest whatsoever, but the bigger problem, as has been pointed out, is that Indy isn't even up to anything when he convinces the Soviets to hand over their gunpowder.

It is a total misread of Indy's character for him to not be attempting some sort of plan, no matter how hare-brained.  That he ends up just punching a guy when he is not looking was the most unimaginative possible way to kick off the escape sequence.

Never knew that about the Soviet thugs threatening to run Mac's head over Sopranos-style. Well, that would have strengthened that opening chapter considerably. And as you and others have stated, I was waiting for the punch line of Indy making the communists using up all (or nearly all?) of their ammunition to escape. It was begging to be used. Amazing that it was not.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - simbob - 09-14-2019

Better than Secret of the Incas, (which is at least pretty great when they're in town that the beginning, and where the Jackie Treehorn music in Big Lebowski comes from) is The Naked Jungle. And The Naked Jungle has got ants.









RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-14-2019

That pic of Heston, I almost mistakened him for Phil Hartman in a SNL skit.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 09-14-2019

I get a JK Simmons vibe off that pic.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - slim - 09-15-2019

(09-14-2019, 09:39 AM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: That pic of Heston, I almost mistakened him for Phil Hartman in a SNL skit.

[attachment=3488]

"I think you're the worst actor I've ever seen and I get 500 letters a day telling me the same!"


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-18-2019

(09-10-2019, 10:04 AM)fatherdude Wrote: A story is making the rounds that the writers of A QUIET PLACE were invited by Lucasfilm to pitch on STAR WARS and INDIANA JONES.  They ultimately turned down being assimilated into the franchise Borg ...

Rumors (take with a grain of salt) are that one of the reasons they didn't pitch is because Lucasfilm and them couldn't get on the same page regarding an NDA as to existing franchises.  

From what we've seen of Lucasfilm and Disney as a whole, I can definitely buy that being a major problem.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - noirheaven - 09-19-2019

(09-14-2019, 03:14 AM)simbob Wrote: Better than Secret of the Incas, (which is at least pretty great when they're in town that the beginning, and where the Jackie Treehorn music in Big Lebowski comes from) is The Naked Jungle. And The Naked Jungle has got ants.







Could not agree more. The Naked Jungle is a gnarly gem of its era.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 09-20-2019

Oh boy.  Den of Geek interviewed David Koepp recently, and look what comes at the very end:

Quote:I don’t know how much you can talk about Indiana Jones 5. You were working on it for a bit, and you’re not anymore.

I actually am again. I’m working on it again. We’re still trying. And I think we’ve got a good idea this time. We’ll see.

Eleven years, and the progress on the script is "We're still trying" and "We'll see."


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-20-2019

I don't blame Koepp too much for KTOCS because his task was trying to create a Frankenstein's monster of a script by combing many different elements from totally different drafts and at the same time trying to get approval from Lucas, Spielberg, and Ford who all had different ideas of what an Indy film should be but Lucas was top dog, which is why it took over 12 years to get that film made.

There's another factor. When Spielberg made the first two Indy films he had different sensibilities. I think any of us would think it's pretty easy write an Indy film. Just make it a cracking adventure film with a cool fantastical/historical artifact. Right? However, I think starting with THE LAST CRUSADE, that was never enough for Spielberg. To him, it can't just be yet another adventure for Indy. He had to have a more personal and emotional story to those films, which is why you get familial stuff with Henry Jones Sr. and Mutt Williams. From then on that's been Spielberg's hook, and I suspect that's what had delayed the latter films. It can't just have a well written plot, it needs to have a moving story.

Bond films have been going through this phase as well recently with Craig, though at least EON just needs to hire new directors instead of appealing to one legend like Spielberg.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 09-20-2019

I hope Spielberg has moved past that. I've gotten the sense that he really wants to deliver a terrific Indiana Jones movie, and if that means "just another adventure," I think he'd be okay with that.

I also think he's not going to make one just to make it. That's how we got CRYSTAL SKULL in the form we did. This film will happen if Spielberg thinks he can blow the roof off with it.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-20-2019

And I respect him for that. He doesn't need Indy, so if he's going to do it, it's gotta be because he earnestly wants to on his own accord without Ford or Lucas nudging him.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 09-20-2019

Personally, I want him hungry again like he was for RAIDERS (coming off of a flop in 1941). He's had a few underperformers in a row and might be feeling some pressure to deliver a real winner. If WEST SIDE STORY ends up underperforming, he might be hungry again.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 09-20-2019

WEST SIDE STORY comes out Q4 2020. There is no time for Spielberg to make INDY 5 a reaction to it.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bluelouboyle - 09-20-2019

I thought READY PLAYER ONE was a hit. And didn'd THE POST do quite well, for that kind movie?


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - kyle reese 2 - 09-20-2019

I wouldn't even pay David Koepp to write a college application essay. It's been a long time since Jurassic Park.

I sat through Premium Rush, that cancels out most of the handfull of bright spots on his IMDB.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 09-20-2019

RPO made money overall, but wasn't gigantic in the States. THE POST also comfortably made money.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 09-20-2019

I was thinking more along the lines of BFG.