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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

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RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Paul C - 09-23-2019

They probably should've kept it as a musical. Robin Williams can do musicals okay and When You're Alone isn't... too bad. And as you say, with the overblown staginess of the thing it already looks like one, so might as well have followed through.

I'm up for Indy V, just in the hope they manage to do something with it. But to be perfectly honest I don't know how much I expect from Spielberg at this point. It's not that he's lost it, but more and more of his projects have been feeling inessential.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fraid uh noman - 09-23-2019

I hold Spielberg in too high regard to think he's incapable of looking at what didn't work in Crystal Skull and making adjustments and improvements..


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 09-23-2019

I hold Spielberg in too high regard to believe that he thought CRYSTAL SKULL had a script worth producing or a visual style that any sane custodian of the franchise would sign off on.  It happened anyway.  Spielberg's instincts can be shockingly bad under the right circumstances, apparently.  That comes with the hope, though, that the right circumstances could lead him to rebound with a vengeance.  Who knows anymore.  I can only observe that Koepp and Kaminski haven't been shown the door.  My biggest fear about INDY 5 is that it will demonstrate something very surprising to everyone who preferred to lay their problems with CRYSTAL SKULL at the feet of George Lucas.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Stale Elvis - 09-23-2019

I just wished Spielberg would go back to working with light and smoke and be clever with his direction again like back in the early 80s.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-23-2019

(09-23-2019, 10:25 AM)fatherdude Wrote: My biggest fear about INDY 5 is that it will demonstrate something very surprising to everyone who preferred to lay their problems with CRYSTAL SKULL at the feet of George Lucas.

That's one of my big concerns. Spielberg has always admitted that in the grand scheme of things these were ultimately George's films. With this film though? I'm pretty sure there will be a certain segment of fans that focus more on Kathleen Kennedy, cause ya know, WOMEN!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 09-23-2019

Given that, unlike STAR WARS, Kennedy has been involved with Indy since the beginning, I'm not anticipating any such critique from that angle.

I also don't think that, in her responsibilities as head of Lucasfilm, she's taking as much interest in Indy as she does with SW. I don't think anybody at Disney is, frankly. Seems like they're just letting Spielberg and his team coast in neutral while they try to come up with what they're going to do.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 09-23-2019

If Shia weren't such a black sheep, I wonder if we'd be getting a MUTT JONES show on Disney +, showing him taking on the mantle of Indy in the 50s/60s.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 09-23-2019

It is interesting that Shia was one of the major elements of concern leading up to CRYSTAL SKULL, but in the end, he's not on the list of the movie's problems.

He's good in the film. I do love his beat when they're in the catacombs and he gets spooked by some small piece of debris hanging from cobwebs. The way he tries to play it off cool is fun.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-23-2019

(09-23-2019, 12:44 PM)Judas Booth Wrote: If Shia weren't such a black sheep, I wonder if we'd be getting a MUTT JONES show on Disney +, showing him taking on the mantle of Indy in the 50s/60s.

I always felt the assumption that Mutt would take over the franchise was seriously overblown, especially by those who hated Shia. That ending where he picks up the hat and almost puts it on before Indy snatches it back and grins was Spielberg and Lucas' playful way of saying nobody is going to replace Indy, and yet so many misinterpreted it as the opposite. I think what also factored into that assumption was because at the time Shia was getting a lot of starring roles because Spielberg took a liking to him. Kind of lame of Shia to piss that all way away because he was too self-conscious of his image, ironically making it only worse.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 09-23-2019

(09-23-2019, 12:51 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: It is interesting that Shia was one of the major elements of concern leading up to CRYSTAL SKULL, but in the end, he's not on the list of the movie's problems.

He's good in the film.  I do love his beat when they're in the catacombs and he gets spooked by some small piece of debris hanging from cobwebs.  The way he tries to play it off cool is fun.

Seconded.  I liked him in the film.  He delivered exactly what he was asked to deliver, and that's really all that you can ask of anyone.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-23-2019

Thirded.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fraid uh noman - 09-23-2019

After some distance and that rewatch that led to my 180 on the film...yeah, he's not bad in it..


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - arjen rudd - 09-23-2019

I don’t know, when it comes to Indy’s junior partner, Short Round crushes him. No child wanted to be Mutt Williams.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - simbob - 09-23-2019

(09-23-2019, 12:51 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: It is interesting that Shia was one of the major elements of concern leading up to CRYSTAL SKULL, but in the end, he's not on the list of the movie's problems.

He's good in the film.  I do love his beat when they're in the catacombs and he gets spooked by some small piece of debris hanging from cobwebs.  The way he tries to play it off cool is fun.

Probably not. If I remember right Shia burned his Spielberg bridge years ago, and it doesn't sound like he's really interested in doing blockbusters anymore.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-23-2019

He didn't like the hate he was getting for movies like CRYSTAL SKULL and TRANSFORMERS, so he started trashing those films, which is basically biting the hand that feeds you.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 09-23-2019

(09-23-2019, 03:23 PM)arjen rudd Wrote: I don’t know, when it comes to Indy’s junior partner, Short Round crushes him. No child wanted to be Mutt Williams.

I mean, of course Short Round is the best.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fraid uh noman - 09-23-2019

I don't think anyone was saying he was better than Short Round or even as good. Just that he wasn't one of the movie's problems and didn't deserve all the hate. Although...shitting on the blockbusters that made you obscenely wealthy and the people that made them is a REALLY stupid thing to do. "I don't want to do blockbusters anymore" is what any cretin would say when nobody wants you in their blockbusters anymore. Treat it like the job that it is you entitled twit..


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - simbob - 09-23-2019

(09-23-2019, 04:21 PM)fraid uh noman Wrote: I don't think anyone was saying he was better than Short Round or even as good. Just that he wasn't one of the movie's problems and didn't deserve all the hate. Although...shitting on the blockbusters that made you obscenely wealthy and the people that made them is a REALLY stupid thing to do. "I don't want to do blockbusters anymore" is what any cretin would say when nobody wants you in their blockbusters anymore. Treat it like the job that it is you entitled twit..

They did want him for another Transformers at the time. I think they were still floating the idea of more Indiana Jones movies, or whatever it would've been called, with him too.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fraid uh noman - 09-23-2019

Well, somewhere along the line all that did change. I mean, when HARRISON FORD, who ran out of fucks to give years ago tells you to shut up because you're talking too much shit....you've crossed a line for real..


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 09-23-2019

The problem with Mutt isn't performance, but existence. Shia is just a fun target to throw tomatoes at.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-23-2019

I don’t even know why Shia got hate in 2008 other than just the fact he was playing Indy’s son and people didn’t like the idea of that because they assumed he would take over as the protagonist. This was way before Shia’s entitled attitude started spilling out, which of course only fueled the hate for him.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fraid uh noman - 09-23-2019

No he really was starting to grate by summer '08..


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-23-2019

I saw that then, and I never got the hate then.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fraid uh noman - 09-23-2019

He was an annoying aspect of two recent movies. I, Robot and Constantine, something which a lot of folks took note of. A LOT of people also disliked him in Transformers because more Shia means less Optimus (I think people forget how much this really was a thing) and summer of '08 he temporarily shuts down/ultimately alters a $200 million production due to getting shit faced and flipping his jeep. He wasn't winning many friends. People were READY to hate him come Indy 4 time, I promise..


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - simbob - 09-23-2019

Transformers. People really don't like those Tramsformers movies. Although I remember seeing that first movie have way more defenders around that time than they'd have a few years later.

He was also being poised by Spielberg to be the next big thing, it's like he saw him in Holes or something and just started putting him in everything they did starting with Disturbia. That and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was really bad, while also looking like it was basically just a setup to give Shia another big blockbuster leading role as the next Indiana Jones off the back of a lame duck exist for a beloved character.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - waaaaaaaalt - 09-23-2019

(09-23-2019, 05:07 PM)simbob Wrote: Transformers. People really don't like those Tramsformers movies. Although I remember seeing that first movie have way more defenders around that time than they'd have a few years later.
First one is pretty decent. All terrible from there until Bumblebee.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fraid uh noman - 09-23-2019

People on the internet don't like those Transformers movies. Not that we should get in the way of the internet making up its own facts. That argument is not even relevant though. What's relevant is he was in mega budgeted movies that had exposure overkill and he was publicly starting to show his ass. I even said I don't hate him in Indy 4 (although he has easily the worst scene) so, I don't really have any kind of anti-Mutt agenda. Anti-Sam? Prrrrobably.

They really should get Short Round back for 5..


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-23-2019

They should have had Short Round at the wedding. But Spielberg hates TEMPLE OF DOOM, so no nods for that film.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fraid uh noman - 09-23-2019

Hating Temple of Doom is just weird for anyone. That movie is nipping at Raiders' heels. I get not enjoying the mental place you were at when making the movie but...the movie is still fucking great. Short Round not being at the wedding is the proto-Chewie doesn't get a hug..


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 09-23-2019

I think he allows his own misgivings about some of his projects to negate the fact that they do have their fans.

There's a clip out there where he's being interviewed by somebody on some press junket; the interviewer mentions that he grew up with HOOK and is a big fan and defender of it, and Spielberg appears genuinely thrilled and delighted by this. I guess more people need to tell him how awesome TEMPLE OF DOOM is!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - simbob - 09-23-2019

The weirdest thing about him seemingly hating Temple of Doom (besides it being where he met his wife) is in old interviews Spielberg and Lucas seem to love it. They talk about it as if it's the forumla perfected, and it seemed to completely change Lucas's idea of what movies as a ride should be.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - commodorejohn - 09-23-2019

(09-23-2019, 05:07 PM)simbob Wrote: Transformers. People really don't like those Tramsformers movies. Although I remember seeing that first movie have way more defenders around that time than they'd have a few years later.
Yup. In the first Bayformers (back when people felt they had to praise it just for existing, in the bad old days before Iron Man when fans of nerd properties were under the impression that they pretty much just had to shrug and accept adaptations that showed naked contempt for the source material because they were never going to get anything better,) he was the most immediately annoying part of the franchise (before ROTF happened and inflicted its litany of horrors on an innocent public.) And Spielberg taking a shine to him and Hollywood subsequently deciding to make him the Next Big Thing added a nice case of severe overexposure on top of that (trying to remember here, but he was pretty much the first of the late-2000s/early-2010s Quest For The Next Boring Generic White Dude Film Star guys, wasn't he? There was Brendan Fraser, I guess, but he actually more or less worked his way up to the position rather than apparently being designated as Your Official Protagonist For Everything the way the Sam Worthingtons of the last decade-plus were...)


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - ravi - 09-23-2019

My big issues are the uneven tone (veering from slapstick with Willie and the elephant to randomly shifting into human sacrifice/child slavery), the lack of a compelling treasure hunt, not introducing the villains until an hour in and compared to Raiders & Last Crusade, the stakes aren’t as high.

Plus, as someone of South Asian descent, it’s a little uncomfortable in 2019 seeing the monkey brain feast and seeing Goddess Kali (who is usually a positive figure) depicted as a Hindu version of Satan.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - scottieferguson - 09-23-2019

(09-23-2019, 05:28 PM)fraid uh noman Wrote: Hating Temple of Doom is just weird for anyone. That movie is nipping at Raiders' heels. I get not enjoying the mental place you were at when making the movie but...the movie is still fucking great. Short Round not being at the wedding is the proto-Chewie doesn't get a hug..

You know Short Round is just off having his own adventures by then, got an invitation, said fuck that, puts on his Yankee's cap and punches some guy in the face instead of rsvp-ing.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 09-23-2019

(09-23-2019, 05:24 PM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: But Spielberg hates TEMPLE OF DOOM, so no nods for that film.

"Don't touch anything."