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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

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RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Judas Booth - 09-23-2019

I pitched this on Discord and got a good response.

This is how I'd do Indy 5 and tap into the fact that he's 80 years old.

Beginning: Indy is in the American southwest, looking for El Dorado. He finds it but triggers a trap, causing everything to implode. He escapes, but just barely. In the process of running from the rubble, he gets winded.

After the credits, we see Indy at home with Marion. He opens a letter containing test results. He has inoperable lung cancer. Marion consoles him...it's been a good run.
At his birthday, all of his old friends and family show up. Sallah is there, Mutt is there (his cameo), and Short Round shows up. This is a combination birthday and goodbye party.
Short Round pulls Indy aside...he's gotten word that the Chinese are going to invade (country) to find Shangri-La and the fountain of youth. Indy brightens at the possibility...youth? a cure?
Marion and Mutt try and talk him out of it but he's determined to give it a go 'one last time.' He leaves with Sallah and Short Round.

First Stop: Russia.
See the map travel sequence going from the US to Russia. There, they do research into a McGuffin that'll help them find the location of Shangri-La.
Adventures occur.

Next Stop: Tibet.
See the map travel sequence going from Russia to Tibet. There, they search for Shangri-La.
Sallah dies heroically along the way.
Indy gets to the Fountain of Youth. The Chinese adversaries are behind them. Realizing that the FOY has the capability to actually destroy life on Earth (everyone immortal, overpopulation, etc), Indy decides to destroy it rather than use it. He dies heroically, saving the planet. Shorty brings his body home to Marion and he gets buried. His tombstone says 'Fortune and Glory'.

It acknowledges his age, gives him a reason for one last adventure, and gives him an arc regarding accepting his own mortality.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 09-23-2019

I like the effort, Judas, but I don't see how I wouldn't exit that movie feeling utterly deflated and bummed out!

Shangri-La could be an interesting locale, though.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - scottieferguson - 09-23-2019

Agreed. My biggest beef with KOTCS was that very awkward shot of Connery's head shot, likely pulled from some archive by the prop department. They all rode off into the sun. Brody not being back makes sense, because life, same can be sorta said for Connery, but the character drank from the grail. A line saying he's just off on another crazy quest would've been better than a stock photo and a slow zoom IMO.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - simbob - 09-23-2019

(09-23-2019, 05:42 PM)commodorejohn Wrote:
(09-23-2019, 05:07 PM)simbob Wrote: Transformers. People really don't like those Tramsformers movies. Although I remember seeing that first movie have way more defenders around that time than they'd have a few years later.
Yup. In the first Bayformers (back when people felt they had to praise it just for existing, in the bad old days before Iron Man when fans of nerd properties were under the impression that they pretty much just had to shrug and accept adaptations that showed naked contempt for the source material because they were never going to get anything better,) he was the most immediately annoying part of the franchise (before ROTF happened and inflicted its litany of horrors on an innocent public.) And Spielberg taking a shine to him and Hollywood subsequently deciding to make him the Next Big Thing added a nice case of severe overexposure on top of that (trying to remember here, but he was pretty much the first of the late-2000s/early-2010s Quest For The Next Boring Generic White Dude Film Star guys, wasn't he? There was Brendan Fraser, I guess, but he actually more or less worked his way up to the position rather than apparently being designated as Your Official Protagonist For Everything the way the Sam Worthingtons of the last decade-plus were...)

I've noticed a weird thing on message boards with nerd properties like comic book movies and such from having been on a now gone comic book forum once. It's that most anything nerd related will get staunch defenders of it, then like a couple years later the people that may have raked you over the coals for saying anything is wrong with whatever seem to be ready to admit there are problems with whatever too. Like maybe on release they were arguing The Avengers was the best superhero movie ever and should have been nominated for Best Picture, but a couple years later they're calling out stuff like the Red Ledger scene as stupid too.

I really can't think of anyone that got quite the kind of deal Shia LaBeouf did when Spielberg was just kind of dropping him into the lead role of everything Amblin did for a few years. I mean, there were probably others, but I can't think of anyone that was happening with on the scale it was happening with LaBeouf...maybe some other Disney kids I guess on tv like the Jonas Brothers and Miley Cyrus, which while also big was also different.

I dipped out of the Bay Transformer movies after watching the first, (which I wasn't all that interesting in seeing to begin with) but I found the parents to be the most annoying part of that movie. LaBeouf's character was like this too, but the parents acted like they were on speed while doing some dumb routine about jerking off or something.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fraid uh noman - 09-23-2019

The parents are about 25% why I hate Revenge of the Fallen. With 25% going to Turturro's ass and 25% each for Devastator's balls. I don't hate any of the others. I LOVE The Avengers but I wouldn't have thought it should get nominated for Best Picture. I wouldn't even have argued too hard about that in favor of The Dark Knight. The MCU films that I think MIGHT warrant Oscar consideration are Iron Man for Best Actor (over Tropic Thunder, I'm sorry, this should've been Downey's nom). And Downey again in Endgame and Endgame should get a courtesy Best Picture nom but not win. Black Panther should've won. If they were gonna nominate THAT movie it should've gone all the way. That's all I got..


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Misfit - 09-23-2019

“I’m working on it again,” Koepp said. “We’re still trying. And I think we’ve got a good idea this time. We’ll see.”

Inspiring!


https://trouble.city/articles/2019/9/23/g8vhc1txaa9p9e0vm72jllswom2q9k

Edited the link because I didn't realize there was a Trouble City article about this because I am old and tired.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - commodorejohn - 09-23-2019

(09-23-2019, 06:41 PM)simbob Wrote: I dipped out of the Bay Transformer movies after watching the first, (which I wasn't all that interesting in seeing to begin with) but I found the parents to be the most annoying part of that movie. LaBeouf's character was like this too, but the parents acted like they were on speed while doing some dumb routine about jerking off or something.
I...don't remember them being less annoying in the first, but I remember there being less of them, compared to ROTF where they took up about 134% of the running time. Shia we were stuck with for the whole damn movie.

But then, I haven't seen it in a decade, so it's possible I'm just blocking things out to numb the pain.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - simbob - 09-23-2019

Fuck, why do you even go back to Koepp? You'd think after Crystal Skull they would've went elsewhere, but this is the second time they've gone to Koepp for this one.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-23-2019

(09-23-2019, 07:39 PM)simbob Wrote: Fuck, why do you even go back to Koepp? You'd think after Crystal Skull they would've went elsewhere, but this is the second time they've gone to Koepp for this one.

As pointed out in an earlier, that wasn't really his fault. What he was tasked with wasn't something you could make work.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fraid uh noman - 09-23-2019

Hence, why the third one got back on track for me. Shia was better. The parents sucked less (comparatively) and there was less of them. To the point that I don't even remember them in it. And, above all, that was the Transformer's movie above anyone else. Totally. And that collapsing building sequence is fucking awesome. And it revolves mostly around the people! Which was miraculous. It reminded me of the trailer over the cliff scene in The Lost World, just....about a thousand times bigger. Then....after that, no more Shia and thusly, no more parents so....that's a big win. I can't see that as anything but a course correction. Bumblebee is a better one but I'll take those as well. Sue me.

Maybe Hailee Steinfeld should be in Indy 5? Marion can't have a daughter that has a different father?

Didn't they want Kevin Costner as Indy's brother at one point? That'd be a good "sidekick"*

*best Landau/Lugosi impression..


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-23-2019

Funnily, I saw the first and third films in theaters, even though I never bothered seeing the second film. Watching the third, I actually felt up to speed, that I didn't need to know what happened in the second but infer that things between 1 and 3 happened, but what exactly wasn't important.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - simbob - 09-23-2019

(09-23-2019, 07:44 PM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote:
(09-23-2019, 07:39 PM)simbob Wrote: Fuck, why do you even go back to Koepp? You'd think after Crystal Skull they would've went elsewhere, but this is the second time they've gone to Koepp for this one.

As pointed out in an earlier, that wasn't really his fault. What he was tasked with wasn't something you could make work.

What exactly was he tasked with that couldn't be made to work? The alien thing? Because I think that could have worked pretty easily. The formula of Temple of Doom is a pretty easy fit for weird extradimensional aliens: Indy goes out to some place to find a thing, (let's say it's still the Crystal Skulls) he encounters some weird cult, the cult is connected to some weird Lovecraft like space god they draw power from. It ain't like there isn't a lot of fiction with characters like Indy going out and finding something alien, or digging one up.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - filmnerdjamie - 09-23-2019

RE: Hook.

Always struck me as something Terry Gilliam should have made instead.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fraid uh noman - 09-23-2019

(09-23-2019, 07:57 PM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: Funnily, I saw the first and third films in theaters, even though I never bothered seeing the second film. Watching the third, I actually felt up to speed, that I didn't need to know what happened in the second but infer that things between 1 and 3 happened, but what exactly wasn't important.

Yep..


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-23-2019

(09-23-2019, 08:36 PM)simbob Wrote:
(09-23-2019, 07:44 PM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote:
(09-23-2019, 07:39 PM)simbob Wrote: Fuck, why do you even go back to Koepp? You'd think after Crystal Skull they would've went elsewhere, but this is the second time they've gone to Koepp for this one.

As pointed out in an earlier, that wasn't really his fault. What he was tasked with wasn't something you could make work.

What exactly was he tasked with that couldn't be made to work? The alien thing? Because I think that could have worked pretty easily. The formula of Temple of Doom is a pretty easy fit for weird extradimensional aliens: Indy goes out to some place to find a thing, (let's say it's still the Crystal Skulls) he encounters some weird cult, the cult is connected to some weird Lovecraft like space god they draw power from. It ain't like there isn't a lot of fiction with characters like Indy going out and finding something alien, or digging one up.

He was basically into the process to combine different drafts together that would please the demands of Lucas, Spielberg, and Ford altogether. It's basically a Frankenstein's monster of a script, rather than something that was done organically from one draft to the next. At least for INDY V, the scripting process isn't as big of a mess as it was for CRYSTAL SKULL. At least, I hope.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - simbob - 09-23-2019

You don't really need to see any of the others to get what's what in any of them. Outside of some gags, a little one at the end of Temple of Doom, the opening of Last Crusade with the snakes, they're completely stand alone films with nothing to not get.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-23-2019

(09-23-2019, 08:54 PM)simbob Wrote: You don't really need to see any of the others to get what's what in any of them. Outside of some gags, a little one at the end of Temple of Doom, the opening of Last Crusade with the snakes, they're completely stand alone films with nothing to not get.

I was talking about the TRANSFORMERS films.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fraid uh noman - 09-23-2019

You don't NEED to see Temple of Doom or Raiders to "get" Last Crusade or Crystal Skull but....unlike the other series, why would anyone WANT to miss any of them?


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 09-23-2019

(09-23-2019, 08:40 PM)filmnerdjamie Wrote: RE: Hook.

Always struck me as something Terry Gilliam should have made instead.

That would have been interesting to see.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fraid uh noman - 09-23-2019

No no no Ridley Scott should've made Hook like he did Legend. I'd rather him have come off Black Rain and done something like that than Thelma and Louise..


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - arjen rudd - 09-24-2019

I’d love to see the downer ending Gilliam would have come up with for Hook.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 09-24-2019

If this movie doesn't get made, Lucasfilm ought to release the story meeting transcripts.  I want to know what kind of struggles a rotating team of screenwriters has been having in their quest to crack an Indiana Jones plot, which is apparently the most difficult creative objective Hollywood has ever tackled.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-24-2019

I imagine Spielberg’s mandate is “I want a story, not a plot”, and it’s all a scrambling to find one that piques his interest, when any other filmmaker would be like “Indy searches for artifact x, and go!”


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-24-2019

(09-24-2019, 08:13 AM)fatherdude Wrote: If this movie doesn't get made, Lucasfilm ought to release the story meeting transcripts.  I want to know what kind of struggles a rotating team of screenwriters has been having in their quest to crack an Indiana Jones plot, which is apparently the most difficult creative objective Hollywood has ever tackled.

Spielberg, and Hollywood in general, has gotten WAY too creatively insular.  Reusing the same inner circle of exhausted/talentless writers over and over.

Put out a call for spec scripts ... I fucking guarantee a hungry writer would come up with something great.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - carnotaur3 - 09-24-2019

(09-24-2019, 09:46 AM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: I imagine Spielberg’s mandate is “I want a story, not a plot”, and it’s all a scrambling to find one that piques his interest, when any other filmmaker would be like “Indy searches for artifact x, and go!”

I think this is correct. But I also think part of the reason why Crystal Skull doesn't work is because the Skull feels very loosely connected to the movie's themes.

Whereas each previous movie connected to his character's needs.  The Ark "represented everything he got into archeology for in the first place". The Sankara Stones were his "fortune and glory" and his transition from searching for riches to enriching a community. And the grail represented his reconnection to his father, whose parenting style actually created Indy's journey as an archeologist. 

The Crystal Skull is many rewrites away from making those kind of deep connections to Indy's character. He doesn't even get actually somewhat interested in the skull until halfway through the movie and then he wants to return it at the beginning of the third act because it "told" him to. Then there's something about knowledge at the end of the movie but who really knows.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-24-2019

(09-24-2019, 01:12 AM)arjen rudd Wrote: I’d love to see the downer ending Gilliam would have come up with for Hook.

Peter finds out he has an incurable progressive disease and eventually contemplates suicide to spare himself and his family a prolonged, miserable spiral.

Sad


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Stale Elvis - 09-24-2019

Isn’t that what Robin did in real life?


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 09-24-2019

(09-24-2019, 11:57 AM)Stale Elvis Wrote: Isn’t that what Robin did in real life?
http://Www.that'sthejoke.com


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mr. stockslivevan - 09-24-2019

I'm sure Gilliam would have been proud of himself for "intellectually challenging" audiences with a downer.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fraid uh noman - 09-24-2019

If Gilliam would've made it it would've been something like wondering if he actually IS Peter Pan or if everything is all in his head and at the end he would've leapt from a building to prove he can fly and then it ends ambiguously without showing whether he did fly or was a crazy person who flung himself to his death..


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Neil Spurn - 09-24-2019

I'd watch it! Say what you will about Gilliam (actually, please don't mention MirrorMask. Or, um, Brothers Grimm) but the guy makes visually stunning stuff.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - arjen rudd - 09-24-2019

I like Brothers Grimm!

He’s not beyond upbeat endings. Munchausen ends, improbably, on a positive note!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 09-24-2019

I do too, but man is there a much better movie trying to claw its way out.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - simbob - 09-24-2019

(09-24-2019, 02:40 PM)Neil Spurn Wrote: I'd watch it!  Say what you will about Gilliam (actually, please don't mention MirrorMask. Or, um, Brothers Grimm) but the guy makes visually stunning stuff.

MirrorMask isn't Gilliam. That's Sandman artist David McKean and Neil Gaiman doing a Henson Company movie. I don't think Gilliam has anything to do with that movie.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Neil Spurn - 09-24-2019

Damn it, that's right. Okay, let's not talk about Tideland, then. Which came out the same year as MirrorMask!