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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Printable Version

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RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 02-25-2020

(02-25-2020, 06:03 PM)ravi Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 03:44 PM)bailey Wrote: "I am the monarch of the sea" is a wonderful/memorable moment specifically because it is unique, unexpected, and feels rooted in the character more than designed to get yuks from the audience.

I’d say it’s also meant to be funny since he comically kisses a random dude as he walks away from the pier. His scenes in Crusade aren’t much different.

Maybe it’s just me, but if you’re bringing back old characters and putting them in new scenarios then have some fun with them. Do all franchise sequels need to be grim and gritty to be enjoyable?

Also, you don’t find the world of this film to be as believable even though the whole emotional father-son relationship is the main story focus? LOLZ

Ravi gets it.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Nooj - 02-25-2020

(02-25-2020, 06:01 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 05:55 PM)MichaelM Wrote: I also don't count CRYSTAL. It basically doesn't exist for me.

I'm going to try pretty hard this week to find a fan-edit version that makes the film watchable.  I'm not looking for good, just watchable.

olord, is this YOU???

[attachment=4547]


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 02-25-2020

(02-25-2020, 06:17 PM)Nooj Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 06:01 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 05:55 PM)MichaelM Wrote: I also don't count CRYSTAL. It basically doesn't exist for me.

I'm going to try pretty hard this week to find a fan-edit version that makes the film watchable.  I'm not looking for good, just watchable.

olord, is this YOU???

I just read that review about half an hour ago, Noojie.

No, that isn't me.  I'm going to watch The Essential Edit and the Lost Skull edits and see if either of them are palatable.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Nooj - 02-25-2020

you gotta protect your brand, milord


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 02-25-2020

(02-25-2020, 06:19 PM)Nooj Wrote: you gotta protect your brand, milord

I'm sure you would agree that my "schtick" is always on point, and you'd never be caught dead sneaking around hinting otherwise!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 02-25-2020

(02-25-2020, 04:57 PM)bailey Wrote: Plus the misogyny is palpable.  If it doesn't bother you, good for you.

If we can't laugh at a hapless nightclub waitress getting punched in the face, then the terrorists have won.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Nooj - 02-25-2020

(02-25-2020, 06:42 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 06:19 PM)Nooj Wrote: you gotta protect your brand, milord

I'm sure you would agree that my "schtick" is always on point, and you'd never be caught dead sneaking around hinting otherwise!

perhaps you are slipping as the emperor has foreseen...

TEMPLE is indeed an 'ugly' movie... but I can't deny the enjoyment I get from the zany relentless mean energy that drives the whole thing.  It's certainly one I understand people not liking for a whole list of reasons.  But I even enjoy Willie a great deal.  She's a lot of fun and it's great to see her become more and more gutsy while still being totally herself.

also, it has Indy moving to strike Mola Ram as Puri delightfully cackles and rolls down into a secret hatch under a rock

WONDERFUL






RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 02-25-2020

(02-25-2020, 07:05 PM)fatherdude Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 04:57 PM)bailey Wrote: Plus the misogyny is palpable.  If it doesn't bother you, good for you.

If we can't laugh at a hapless nightclub waitress getting punched in the face, then the terrorists have won.

[Image: giphy.gif]


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 02-25-2020

Mola Ram's Scooby Doo escape is indeed delightful.  Is that one of the movie's flipped shots?  I remember in the DVD making of Lucas said that they had to flip a few shots in TEMPLE as a form of crude continuity repair or something.

Definitely one of the wackiest Indiana Jones editing moments this side of Mac's death. I think the whole aftermath of saving Willie was where some of TEMPLE's heaviest cuts were made. I know the battle with Chattar Lal would have continued with his death, and there was also a deleted scene where the three heroes get the children across the chasm with a plank of wood, which burns away before they themselves can cross. This explains how the kids are able to escape the palace out the front door, while the main characters have to take the mine car.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 02-25-2020

(02-25-2020, 07:18 PM)Nooj Wrote: also, it has Indy moving to strike Mola Ram as Puri delightfully cackles and rolls down into a secret hatch under a rock

WONDERFUL




Mola Ram's diabolical laugh gives me great joy! More movies need to have villains make implausible escapes while enjoying themselves that much!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - mondguy - 02-25-2020

Quote:Nooj



also, it has Indy moving to strike Mola Ram as Puri delightfully cackles and rolls down into a secret hatch under a rock

WONDERFUL




"They called me mad when I had this installed!  Well who's laughing now!"

"Oh...I guess I am."


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - hammerhead - 02-25-2020

(02-25-2020, 05:37 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: The desert truck chase in RAIDERS is the best setpiece in the series, I think.  One of the best ever, really.

And there are only two FX shots in the whole sequence.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - simbob - 02-25-2020

(02-25-2020, 03:33 PM)first class 782 Wrote: Temple of Doom has a GREAT Harrison Ford performance.  It's a darker adventure, but sometimes you want that.

I agree that TLC goes the other way...like playing an adventure on Easy Mode.  But I enjoy the setpieces, and getting Connery involved was a stroke of genius.

I don't even quite get this Temple of Doom being a darker adventure thing. I know that's something that's said about it, but it's just as violent as the original and even more popcorn. I feel like up until a decade ago Temple of Doom was always talked about as being a fairly light popcorn movie roller coaster ride.

I think one of the problems with The Last Crusade is by '89 you couldn't really get away with the same stuff you could in a PG-13 the previous two could with a PG. It's still doing gags the previous two movies did, but with Crusades they're largely bloodless. Like the guy getting crushed by the tank tracks in TLC, this is basically the plane propeller gag from Raders and the rock crusher from Doom. But in those two movies there's blood after what happens, but in Crusade there's nothing; if Crusade was playing by the same rules as the previous two movies the tank track would have had blood on it, but instead there's nothing. Weirdly it's still shot like there's going to be blood, with the camera still follows the tank track like there's going to be a reveal.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - ravi - 02-25-2020

I don't know we see Colonel Vogel (the main Nazi heavy) get all bloodied as he's beaten by Indy, the Nazi driver get shot by a stray bullet with blood dripping down his forehead and in the finale, Henry's lying with a bloody wound on his stomach.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 02-25-2020

(02-25-2020, 09:42 PM)simbob Wrote: I think one of the problems with The Last Crusade is by '89 you couldn't really get away with the same stuff you could in a PG-13 the previous two could with a PG. It's still doing gags the previous two movies did, but with Crusades they're largely bloodless. Like the guy getting crushed by the tank tracks in TLC, this is basically the plane propeller gag from Raders and the rock crusher from Doom. But in those two movies there's blood after what happens, but in Crusade there's nothing; if Crusade was playing by the same rules as the previous two movies the tank track would have had blood on it, but instead there's nothing. Weirdly it's still shot like there's going to be blood, with the camera still follows the tank track like there's going to be a reveal.

Also in Last Crusade when the Power of God™ melts the Nazis it's shown in all its glory, while in Last Crusade when Donovan gets Grail-Melted it isn't nearly as ... hmmm ... wait a minute ....


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - fatherdude - 02-25-2020

Don't forget the rolling head.

Hopefully that's the only script issues they have left to resolve on INDY 5. More rolling heads.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - commodorejohn - 02-25-2020

I mean, yeah, really, Donovan being caught in the grip of pure horror as he helplessly ages into decrepitude, death, and decay in the space of like thirty seconds should be enough to establish TLC's hardcore bona fides all by itself. That scared the shit out of me as a kid, and it's still a bit unsettling as an adult.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - arjen rudd - 02-25-2020

Temple of Doom is darker though. Literally darker, for one thing. It’s a very subterranean movie. But it’s got Indy at his most ruthless and his most sexual, and he’s even evil for ten minutes. You’ve got child slavery, heart-ripping, skulls, bugs, weird black magic Hinduism, and frankly, just a pure relentlessness.

It’s the stuff that turned people off in 1984, and also the stuff that it’s fans most appreciate.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - ravi - 02-25-2020

It's also full of slapstick, gross out gags and animal comedy which doesn't always mesh well with the attempted darkness.

Plus, as someone of South Asian descent, it's a little uncomfortable to watch the monkey brain feast in 2020 and seeing Goddess Kali, who is mainly a positive deity that destroys evil, depicted as a Hindu version of Satan.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - engineer - 02-25-2020

My only issue with THE LAST CRUSADE is that the film doesn't take the Nazis seriously enough. I know Spielberg wanted to take the piss and present them as oafs and here they're presented with bumbling Keystone Cops shtick, and then there's the Hitler's autograph bit...

In RAIDERS they felt like a threat, in TLC they feel more of a Disneyish nuisance. Connery's great monologue about the race for the Grail being a race against evil really lands wonderfully. The Nazis in the film though seem mere window dressing and a hero is only as great as his villain.

Still enjoy the film, though not quite as much as the first two.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - MichaelM - 02-25-2020

(02-25-2020, 11:21 PM)engineer Wrote: My only issue with THE LAST CRUSADE is that the film doesn't take the Nazis seriously enough.  I know Spielberg wanted to take the piss and present them as oafs and here they're presented with bumbling Keystone Cops shtick, and then there's the Hitler's autograph bit...  

Spielberg course corrected in a big way four years later.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - engineer - 02-25-2020

And my God, what a film it was.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - ravi - 02-25-2020

I don't agree that the Nazis are presented purely as comedic oafs in TLC. We get to see the full army of them this time and have the two main supporting villains (Elsa and Vogel) challenging them every step of the way. We get great character bits (like the "This is how we say goodbye in Austria/Germany" exchange and Indy confronting Elsa at the rally) and also, the inclusion of the Brotherhood of the Cruciform Sword soldiers increases the Grail's significance in that all these parties want it for various reasons.

Love the Hitler book signing bit. Ford does a great job of selling that he's scared, yet relieved and you certainly feel Hitler's silent menace.

I feel like Temple of Doom could have done more with its Thuggee Cult villains. Spielberg did a great job casting actor, Amrish Puri to play Mola Ram (he excelled in playing villains in Bollywood cinema) and Roshan Seth as Chattar Lal (both of them previously appeared in Attenborough's Gandhi), but they fumbled by not introducing them until an hour into the film and not giving them much motivation other than being evil for the sake of being evil. They could have delved more into Mola Ram's hatred of the British, shown the full power of the Sankara Stones or something more than what they did in the final film.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - boone daniels - 02-25-2020

(02-25-2020, 11:22 PM)MichaelM Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 11:21 PM)engineer Wrote: My only issue with THE LAST CRUSADE is that the film doesn't take the Nazis seriously enough.  I know Spielberg wanted to take the piss and present them as oafs and here they're presented with bumbling Keystone Cops shtick, and then there's the Hitler's autograph bit...  

Spielberg course corrected in a big way four years later.

Which in turn killed the Roger Rabbit sequel. Not that I'd trade Schindler for a Roger Rabbit sequel.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - engineer - 02-26-2020

(02-25-2020, 11:44 PM)ravi Wrote: I don't agree that the Nazis are presented purely as comedic oafs in TLC....
We get great character bits (like the "This is how we say goodbye in Austria/Germany" exchange...)

And yet Vogel's two most remembered moments are...
1)  The post "No ticket!" shaking his fist at the escaping zeppelin like a Nazi Homer Simpson ("Why you little!") and then
2)  Dying by falling off a cliff in a tank straight into camera like a film-reversed Wile E. Coyote.  

Hitler's scene always made me feel like he was more of a self-important prick than a figure of menace.  

These Nazis are some goofy motherfuckers.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Belloq87 - 02-26-2020

The different treatment of the Nazis in RAIDERS and LAST CRUSADE is evident right down to John Williams' music for them. In RAIDERS, the Nazis have an abrasive, harsh motif that has genuine menace, whereas in LAST CRUSADE, Williams gives them a pompous, extremely hummable melody.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 02-26-2020

I always like to imagine Indiana Jones as a grandfather, showing his grandchildren some of the mementos from his many adventures. Then they stumble upon Henry Jones Sr.'s diary.

"Grampa, what's this?"

"Oh, this is your Great Grandfather's diary. He devoted his life to finding the Holy Grail, and with all the thoroughly researched passages he'd put this diary, I was able to survive the quest to recover it. This diary brought us together and strengthened our relationship in ways I'd never expected."

"Why's it autographed by Adolf Hitler?"


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - arjen rudd - 02-26-2020

A couple things TLC deserves more credit for, I believe, are that it’s the funniest film Spielberg has made, and also his most successful rumination on absent fathers. Something about the outsize nature of the characters somehow allows for their more life-sized relationship grievances feel very honest.

And Ford and Connery are spectacular. Knowing Connery is playing Jones Sr, you’d imagine he’d be doing a sort of James Bond riff, but no, he’s playing a milquetoast academic, and he fucking kills it. I don’t know he’s ever made a film with so many quotable lines.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 02-26-2020

(02-25-2020, 10:50 PM)ravi Wrote: It's also full of slapstick, gross out gags and animal comedy which doesn't always mesh well with the attempted darkness.

Plus, as someone of South Asian descent, it's a little uncomfortable to watch the monkey brain feast in 2020 and seeing Goddess Kali, who is mainly a positive deity that destroys evil, depicted as a Hindu version of Satan.

Snake surprise!!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - commodorejohn - 02-26-2020

(02-26-2020, 01:33 AM)arjen rudd Wrote: A couple things TLC deserves more credit for, I believe, are that it’s the funniest film Spielberg has made, and also his most successful rumination on absent fathers.
The best part is that it manages to be both at the same time without screwing either up. The conversation aboard the zeppelin is a perfect character moment for both Drs. Jones, Ford and Connery both nail it, and it ends with one of the movie's better "punchline" moments. Hell of a balancing act!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - Overlord - 02-26-2020

(02-26-2020, 01:33 AM)arjen rudd Wrote: A couple things TLC deserves more credit for, I believe, are that it’s the funniest film Spielberg has made, and also his most successful rumination on absent fathers ...

As to funniest, I dunno ... Catch Me If You Can seems like it would be in the comedy category at the Golden Globes.  I couldn't sit through it, but wasn't BFG a kid's comedy?  Then there's Hook ...


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 02-26-2020

The end of TLC goes for the easy joke that walks back the previous scene where Henry Jones Sr. calls his son by his preferred name, finally acknowledging that he accepts his son for who is. The acknowledgement is what compels Indiana to stop desperately trying to prove himself to the old man and they finally bond as father and son.

It's always bugged me!


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - engineer - 02-26-2020

Why I still love THE LAST CRUSADE:
The terrific prologue with River Phoenix
The intro shot of Indiana Jones (facepunch!)
All of the Venice sequences
Alison Doody (I wish she'd done more)
The great, great interplay between Ford and Connery
The Brotherhood of the Cruciform Sword
The motorcycle chase sequence (especially the music)
Most of the tank stuff (especially the practical physical stuff)
Alexei Sayle cameo (let's hear it for The Young Ones!)
The cinematography (oooh, that last shot)
The gorgeous John Williams music (I used tracks in a couple of student films, myself)
It really does round out the trilogy well. Yeah, I said trilogy.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - bradito - 02-26-2020

Oh, indeed. There are only three movies.


RE: INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion - simbob - 02-26-2020

(02-25-2020, 09:48 PM)ravi Wrote: I don't know we see Colonel Vogel (the main Nazi heavy) get all bloodied as he's beaten by Indy, the Nazi driver get shot by a stray bullet with blood dripping down his forehead and in the finale, Henry's lying with a bloody wound on his stomach.

Largely bloodless, not completely bloodless. It isn't completely lacking in blood, but in comparison to what it was doing previous it's very safe and a big step down. You aren't going to see anything like the guy that gets shot in the head during the bar fight at the start of Raiders in Crusade.

You bring up Vogel, but in comparison to the Raiders and Doom plane and rock crusher fist fights I'd say the all bloodied Vogel isn't as bloodied as they get in those other two movies.


(02-25-2020, 09:54 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 09:42 PM)simbob Wrote: I think one of the problems with The Last Crusade is by '89 you couldn't really get away with the same stuff you could in a PG-13 the previous two could with a PG. It's still doing gags the previous two movies did, but with Crusades they're largely bloodless. Like the guy getting crushed by the tank tracks in TLC, this is basically the plane propeller gag from Raders and the rock crusher from Doom. But in those two movies there's blood after what happens, but in Crusade there's nothing; if Crusade was playing by the same rules as the previous two movies the tank track would have had blood on it, but instead there's nothing. Weirdly it's still shot like there's going to be blood, with the camera still follows the tank track like there's going to be a reveal.

Also in Last Crusade when the Power of God™ melts the Nazis it's shown in all its glory, while in Last Crusade when Donovan gets Grail-Melted it isn't nearly as ... hmmm ... wait a minute ....

The rapid aging finale of Last Crusade isn't half as violent as the imploding and exploding heads and bloody melting face of Raiders though. If Last Crusade played the rapid aging like Raiders does its end it probably would have been more like the ending of The Evil Dead when basically the same thing happens. If Raiders did that same thing I'm guessing you would've seen some red, where in Crusade there isn't any during it.

(02-25-2020, 09:59 PM)fatherdude Wrote: Don't forget the rolling head.

Hopefully that's the only script issues they have left to resolve on INDY 5.  More rolling heads.

This feels like a good example of how it changed from the previous ones too though. Yeah, you do see a head roll, but there's also no blood at all.  When Doc Ock get it at the beginning of Raiders there's blood coming from spikes. In Last Crusade someone gets their head chopped off and it doesn't even leave blood on the ground.