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WESTERN Draft - Sign Up and Discussion
#71
Damn, True Grit and Assassination were both on my list. Decided to prioritize Leone as a result.
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#72
We've had a lot of bizarre moves over the nearly 20 years we've been doing drafts.

I think I can safely say that Searchers a) going day two and b) going AFTER Hateful 8 is by far the most bizarre.
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#73
Batman Begins going within the early first round picks of Kirby's 2000-2007 draft remains to me the most perplexing choice. Or maybe it was just the first really bad choice, so it always stuck with me, as it was my initial draft here.

Hateful 8 is, at the very least, a great movie with a lot to say.
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#74
Hey, if you just made this a 'best films EVAR' draft, I'd still pick Aliens first over Citizen Kane. Smile People have themes that may not become apparent after one pick (I even considered H8 as a pick for one theme I discarded in the end)... and I would pick at least half of Day 1's picks over The Searchers for sure.

Like I said, I don't dispute it's a GOOD movie and an IMPORTANT movie... but others mean more to me and are more entertaining.

This does also come down into the different ways people approach these drafts, which is half the fun.
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#75
I always prioritize thematically important / personal faves over AFI Top 100 picks.
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#76
The Searchers is an excellent film, by any metric. It's got virtually everything one could ask for in a Western. It's a fantastic pulp adventure, featuring the world most famous Western star at the height of his abilities, but it's also a grim deconstruction of both pulp adventures and that famous Western star's entire persona. It's about people coming together to form the country, it's about revenge and the cost of revenge, and it's about the primal sin of the West, the Native American genocide, at a time when nobody cared about such things. Its position as one of the all time greatest films is well earned, and if you're talking important movies, there's simply no better representation of the Western as a genre. If one film could say it all, it would be The Searchers.

But your point is well taken about different films being important to different people. I don't blame Hateful Eight for taking Searchers's spot. I love Hateful Eight. No, I blame Dead Man.

Just kidding. I knew, for example, that Tombstone would not be everyone's cup of tea. But it's without question the Western I've watched most, and it's my Dad's favorite Western, which holds a lot of sway with me. When it comes to Westerns that are purely entertaining, root for the good guys and boo the villains adventure yarns, I haven't seen one that does it better. It's also got a lot more going on under the hood than one realizes initially, as there's about a dozen plus characters with full arcs in there, some absolutely tremendous tough guy dialogue, and such an elaborate system of setups and payoffs that it takes a few viewings to catch them all. I especially like that the Western trope of bad guys having shitty aim and good guys being crackshots is explained by framing the entire movie as the deliverance of holy vengeance. The good guys are unkillable because they are literally avenging angels.

And yeah, Val Kilmer doing Jack Sparrow but better. It's deliriously entertaining!
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#77
Winchester 73 is the goods. Or any Mann really.
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#78
I actually considered Dances With Wolves. It gets too much crap for "robbing" Scorsese and GoodFellas when that's hardly the film's fault.
My karmic debt must be huge.

----------

My blog: An Embarrassment of Rich's
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#79
Film Forum, a few years back, did a Mann retrospective that was one of my favorite things I've done in NYC. I saw Winchester and another Stewart western he did back-to-back. I was torn between which one I wanted to go with. Maybe I should have gone with the other.
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#80
There's still plenty of Mann to go around!
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#81
(07-31-2018, 10:53 AM)arjen rudd Wrote: But your point is well taken about different films being important to different people. I don't blame Hateful Eight for taking Searchers's spot. I love Hateful Eight. No, I blame Dead Man.

[Image: tumblr_lonc9mS4kn1qi66kho1_500.gif]
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#82
It depends on what you're trying to do with a draft. Because, like, if your goal is to give as close to full a representation of the subject as you can (be it a genre, or a decade, or whatever) within the space of five or ten picks, there's nothing wrong with taking according to Hoyle classics-- even if you may have a more personal connection to other movies. Or if you have a specific theme you're working with, then that might take priority. But taking as perfect an example of the form as The Searchers is always a good move.
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#83
THE OUTLAW JOSEY WALES is probably my favorite non-Leone Eastwood western, possibly tied with UNFORGIVEN. Josey is one of Eastwood's best characters overall, and the movie itself is loaded with a lot of memorable characters. Chief Dan George is particularly strong in this, adding a lot of great comic relief along the way.
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#84
I reckon so.
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#85
'I could have missed.'
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#86
THE SEARCHERS day 2: Scorsese rollin' over in his grave.
 


"Lord help me Jesus, I've wasted it so"



"Bitchin'! Is this in 3-D?"

"No, but your face is."



"Drunk as hell, but no throwin' up

Half way home and my pager still blowin' up"


"I'm tired of living all alone
yeah, nobody ever calls me on the phone
But when things start getting bad
I just play my music louder"





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#87
(07-31-2018, 10:53 AM)atomtastic Wrote: Winchester 73 is the goods. Or any Mann really.

Absolutely. Mann's name belongs right up there with Ford, Hawks, and Leone when it comes to Westerns.
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#88
I'm just glad I got my favorite Ford.
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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#89
(07-31-2018, 12:58 PM)Fat Elvis Wrote: Scorsese rollin' over in his grave.

Don't you speak that evil!
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#90
Henry Fonda's against-type performance in Fort Apache is just great.

I'm glad I was able to grab Butch Cassidy. It's one of those movies I can watch pretty much anytime, anywhere.
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#91
(07-31-2018, 01:22 PM)Pither Wrote: Henry Fonda's against-type performance in Fort Apache is just great.

I'm glad I was able to grab Butch Cassidy. It's one of those movies I can watch pretty much anytime, anywhere.

You just keep pickin', Pither.  That's what you're good at.
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#92
(07-31-2018, 01:24 PM)bailey Wrote:
(07-31-2018, 01:22 PM)Pither Wrote: Henry Fonda's against-type performance in Fort Apache is just great.

I'm glad I was able to grab Butch Cassidy. It's one of those movies I can watch pretty much anytime, anywhere.

You just keep pickin', Pither.  That's what you're good at.

Boy, I got vision, and the rest of the world wears bifocals.
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#93
Damn, thought THE BEGUILED (out of all of Eastwood's westerns) would last until day 4 or 5.
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#94
Had Butch and Sundance on the radar too. I think people tend to overlook the Western aspect of it and see it more as a buddy comedy.
My karmic debt must be huge.

----------

My blog: An Embarrassment of Rich's
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#95
PURSUED is another Scorsese fave.

A Noir Western. A Psychological Western. It's fantastic.

Raoul Walsh is one of the genre masters.

Also top shelf Bob Mitchum.
 


"Lord help me Jesus, I've wasted it so"



"Bitchin'! Is this in 3-D?"

"No, but your face is."



"Drunk as hell, but no throwin' up

Half way home and my pager still blowin' up"


"I'm tired of living all alone
yeah, nobody ever calls me on the phone
But when things start getting bad
I just play my music louder"





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#96
The Professionals is so good.
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#97
Oh yeah, great cast playing so well off each other. A good hangout western.
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#98
(07-31-2018, 01:51 PM)Richard Dickson Wrote: Had Butch and Sundance on the radar too.  I think people tend to overlook the Western aspect of it and see it more as a buddy comedy.

Which sort of raises the question, much as I love it, does the movie earn its finale?  Or, maybe a better question; if it came out in a different era, would the ending be something people had more of an issue with?
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#99
LAST TRAIN FROM GUN HILL is top-notch. Underrated Sturges.
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(07-31-2018, 02:24 PM)bailey Wrote:
(07-31-2018, 01:51 PM)Richard Dickson Wrote: Had Butch and Sundance on the radar too.  I think people tend to overlook the Western aspect of it and see it more as a buddy comedy.

Which sort of raises the question, much as I love it, does the movie earn its finale?  Or, maybe a better question; if it came out in a different era, would the ending be something people had more of an issue with?

I'd say the finale is earned. Right from the opening, with Butch checking out the new security at the bank, the movie makes it clear that these two are on their way out. In spite of the fun moments and great banter, it never lets you forget that.
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(07-31-2018, 01:22 PM)Pither Wrote: Henry Fonda's against-type performance in Fort Apache is just great.

And Wayne goes toe-to-toe with him. He's wonderfully understated.

"No sir. No questions."
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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Last Train from Gun Hill is terrific. And underseen. It’s almost a Western John Wick.
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Will be out of pocket for the next 3 days. Feel free to skip if necessary.
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Ahhhh, sonuvagun. Ride the High Country was my Day 4 plan. Great film.
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It was on my list too.
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