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Marvel Cinematic Universe Discussion
(10-28-2018, 02:04 PM)Dent6084 Wrote: Fraction's Hawkeye is one of the two or three best comics Marvel has put out this decade. It rules. But I have no idea if a Hawkeye show would be able to pull off the look of Aja's art, which is integral to the series' atmosphere and tone. Even if it was from a studio more visually daring than Marvel often is.

The follow-up series (maybe more than one?) starring Kate Bishop-- by Kelly Thompson, and somebody doing his best impression of Aja-doing-his-best-David-Mazzucchelli-impression is surprisingly good too. 

The covers are pretty keen also:

   
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(10-28-2018, 02:20 PM)bartleby_scriven Wrote: Dent gets it.

Is that Hawkeye stuff the same artist as Batman: Year One?

(10-28-2018, 03:13 PM)ska oreo Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 02:04 PM)Dent6084 Wrote: Fraction's Hawkeye is one of the two or three best comics Marvel has put out this decade. It rules. But I have no idea if a Hawkeye show would be able to pull off the look of Aja's art, which is integral to the series' atmosphere and tone. Even if it was from a studio more visually daring than Marvel often is.

Yeah.  It's confounding how you have the blueprint for an awesome, everyman like the Hawkeye in Fraction's comic...

And we get Jeremy Renner.


I mean, not his fault--Marvel really screwed him over.  "How will we make him interesting? WE'LL GIVE HIM A FAMILY!!!"

Renner was decent. Sold the conversation with Black Widow in the first Avengers, and the grunt out of his depth bit in Ultron. Decent comic relief in Civil War. 

I know people hang on to characters, but in a condensed version like the films, that's close to being about as good as a guy with good aim can expect in a team of gods.

I mean these films have been on a downward track from a performance perspective since phase 1 but it was inevitable that the heroes with more melodramatic potential would be amplified and the actors have more to chew on.
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As Slim mentions above, David Aja is the Hawkeye artist. But he’s definitely evoking Year One!
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(10-28-2018, 04:52 PM)bartleby_scriven Wrote: As Slim mentions above, David Aja is the Hawkeye artist. But he’s definitely evoking Year One!

Evoking? It's kinda ridiculous.

So jhp has a good eye on that score.
Our sanitariums are full of men who think they're Napoleon... Or God.
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Aja's art is more overly humorous than Mazzuchelli on Year One (which is probably a function of Fraction versus Miller), but it's definitely inspired by Mazzuchelli for sure. There's some Chris Ware in there too, particularly the issue about Pizza Dog.
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(10-28-2018, 02:04 PM)Dent6084 Wrote: Fraction's Hawkeye is one of the two or three best comics Marvel has put out this decade. It rules. But I have no idea if a Hawkeye show would be able to pull off the look of Aja's art, which is integral to the series' atmosphere and tone. Even if it was from a studio more visually daring than Marvel often is.


There's nothing stopping them from adopting different visual palettes for the new shows.  But Fraction's take on Hawkeye, while great, is completely incompatible with the MCU/Renner characterization in every respect.



(10-28-2018, 04:44 PM)jhp1608 Wrote:
I mean these films have been on a downward track from a performance perspective since phase 1
but it was inevitable that the heroes with more melodramatic potential would be amplified and the actors have more to chew on.

Saywhat now?
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Remember when only two out of the three Marvel movies released this year made over a billion dollars each?

Steep decline!
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(10-28-2018, 05:11 PM)schwartz Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 02:04 PM)Dent6084 Wrote: Fraction's Hawkeye is one of the two or three best comics Marvel has put out this decade. It rules. But I have no idea if a Hawkeye show would be able to pull off the look of Aja's art, which is integral to the series' atmosphere and tone. Even if it was from a studio more visually daring than Marvel often is.


There's nothing stopping them from adopting different visual palettes for the new shows.  But Fraction's take on Hawkeye, while great, is completely incompatible with the MCU/Renner characterization in every respect.



I don't think in *every* respect. Family notwithstanding, I really think they started to get Hawkeye's personality right in Civil War. And I still think Renner's good in the role.
I just don't know how you do a Fraction-type series with the baggage they've given Clint in the movies. It's a shame.
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(10-28-2018, 05:27 PM)slim Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 05:11 PM)schwartz Wrote:
I don't think in *every* respect. Family notwithstanding, I really think they started to get Hawkeye's personality right in Civil War. And I still think Renner's good in the role.
I just don't know how you do a Fraction-type series with the baggage they've given Clint in the movies. It's a shame.


Renner does fine with what he's given.  But what he's given (black ops hardass and secret Norman Rockwell paterfamilias) is so at odds with Fraction's overwhelmed, city-based serial bachelor.
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Falcon/Winter Soldier TV Series Planned for Disney Streaming Service, Scarlet Witch Show May Co-Star Vision http://bit.ly/2ES83wz
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At first I wasn’t too hot on this idea, but if they keep the series short, and only do one season of them each, I think it will be good to have some content between the film releases.

As long as the budget a writing is better than the Netflix series... what’s left of them.

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The Falcon/Winter Soldier buddy cop combo could be a smart idea if they handle it right.
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Isn’t Mackie already signed on to be the lead in the second season of Altered Carbon? I believe as Takeshi Kovac’s new body?
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Glad that you guys worked that out amongst yourselves.

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(10-30-2018, 11:03 PM)shaunh Wrote: The Falcon/Winter Soldier buddy cop combo could be a smart idea if they handle it right.

I would like to see that as well. One of my favorite moments in Civil War was this exchange during the airport fight.

"You couldn't have thought of that sooner?"
"I hate you."
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I cannot even fathom the kompromat that Disney would have to have on all these stars to coerce them from jumping from big screen megablockbusters to streaming series paychecks/schedules. I mean, maybe Sebastian Stan is aware enough to realize that Inarritu is not going to be clamoring to hand him Oscar bait, but Elizabeth Olsen, Paul Bettany and Anthony Mackie definitely have more prestigious, less time-intensive options, right?
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Paul Bettany was doing stuff like Legion before Marvel. He's batting above his career league with Vision.
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I think if the series' have enough of a budget behind them, the mid-tier stars would happily sign up. I assume Altered Carbon s2 is shooting now and the beauty of that show is that Mackie doesn't need to be in s3 (and most likely won't be, Kovacs changed bodies in pretty much every book).

The problem with all of the Marvel shows is they have looked cheap. Some of them (the Netflix ones) have managed to do clever things with the limitations, but none of them compare to a MCU movie. Get a decent SFX house and some good set design behind these properties and there is no reason why they wouldn't draw in the secondary names in this universe.
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(10-28-2018, 04:52 PM)bartleby_scriven Wrote: As Slim mentions above, David Aja is the Hawkeye artist. But he’s definitely evoking Year One!

(10-28-2018, 04:54 PM)slim Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 04:52 PM)bartleby_scriven Wrote: As Slim mentions above, David Aja is the Hawkeye artist. But he’s definitely evoking Year One!

Evoking? It's kinda ridiculous.

So jhp has a good eye on that score.

I don't know comic book artists from Adams, generally, but Year One is so distinctive to me this Hawkeye art definitely stood out as similar to it.

(10-28-2018, 05:11 PM)schwartz Wrote:
(10-28-2018, 02:04 PM)Dent6084 Wrote: Fraction's Hawkeye is one of the two or three best comics Marvel has put out this decade. It rules. But I have no idea if a Hawkeye show would be able to pull off the look of Aja's art, which is integral to the series' atmosphere and tone. Even if it was from a studio more visually daring than Marvel often is.


There's nothing stopping them from adopting different visual palettes for the new shows.  But Fraction's take on Hawkeye, while great, is completely incompatible with the MCU/Renner characterization in every respect.



(10-28-2018, 04:44 PM)jhp1608 Wrote:
I mean these films have been on a downward track from a performance perspective since phase 1
but it was inevitable that the heroes with more melodramatic potential would be amplified and the actors have more to chew on.

Saywhat now?

I'm on a phone and preased for time, so I'll happily participate in a discussion about this later, but yes, broadly I find the lead and supporting performamces more interesting and less well worn in Phase 1 than in subsequent films. The plotting got better in some respects, as did the FX and action, but I'll take Downey, Evans, Hemsworth, Hiddleston and the supporting players In their performances from Phase 1 over most of what they have done since.

I'm also not that much of a fan of Cumberbatch, Rudd or Boseman so far. Jordan and the rest of the Black Panther support were good, and Ruffalo is an upgrade. Hence my reference to a downward track - or trend.
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This is all subjective nonsense, but I don't think Downey or Evans have ever lost a step, and you can get tae fuck if you out here tryna say Hemsworth was better in Thor 1/2 than Ragnarok/Infinity War.

Also Tom Holland is the goods.
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Falcon/Winter Soldier mini-series is weird but could be fun. Would also seem to confirm neither of them will take on the Captain America mantle.
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"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
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(10-31-2018, 11:12 AM)schwartz Wrote: This is all subjective nonsense, but I don't think Downey or Evans have ever lost a step, and you can get tae fuck if you out here tryna say Hemsworth was better in Thor 1/2 than Ragnarok/Infinity War.

Also Tom Holland is the goods.

I'd argue both Downey and Evans have gotten better as time went on. 

I think these characters are handled better with the Russo's than they ever were with Whedon.
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Yeah, Civil War is some of RDJ's best Tony Stark work. Check out the scene when he finds out Bucky killed his parents.

Amazingly he's never really phoned it in, but Iron Man 2 is probably his worst work, just in terms of Favreau perhaps not having the sense to rein him in or choose better takes.
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
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Civil War is definitely peak RDJ but he also gave a really great performance in Infinity War as well.

Honestly we all know the key to the MCU is the actors and the chemistry they have. I can’t think of a particularly bad performance since Tim Blake Nelson in the Incredible Hulk. Not necessarily
outright bad, per se, but definitely a performance that is a remnant of prior superhero movies.

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I've always thought that Hopkins really phones it in as Odin. But it feels weird to single out Anthony Hopkins as being the weak link in anything, much less a technicolor space viking comedy.
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It's been a while since I've seen it, but it was my impression he was doing what he could with the material in the first film.

The other two are clearly contractual/paycheck gigs. Doesn't help that the scripts continually shat the bed WRT Odin.
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Hopkins phones it in hard, but even then he looked to be having a bunch of fun doing his Loki impression in Ragnarok at least.
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Tim Blake Nelson has some really great, odd choices playing the would-be Leader (randomly flips a coin for dramatic effect during a monologue), but it tonally didn't fit in with that movie.

He could slide in quite comfortably to a Guardians or Spider-Man sequel, though.
"I'd rather have hope...than nothing at all."
-Illyana Rasputin, X-Men: Omega #1

"But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive."
-Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451

Twitter: @BartLBishop
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I've said it before but I'm convinced Marvel Studios specifically made Iron man one way and the Incredible Hulk another to test out what direction to take the franchise.

Luckily people responded to Iron Man.

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I don't buy that. Edward Norton constantly fought with the director over the script/edit and per Jeff Bridges Downey/Favreau were making it up on the fly day-to-day.
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(10-31-2018, 04:25 PM)bartleby_scriven Wrote: He could slide in quite comfortably to a Guardians or Spider-Man sequel, though.

I agree. Bring in The Leader!
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(10-31-2018, 04:40 PM)catartik Wrote: I've said it before but I'm convinced Marvel Studios specifically made Iron man one way and the Incredible Hulk another to test out what direction to take the franchise.

Luckily people responded to Iron Man.

I don't think so.

I think the enduring legacy of Incredible Hulk is that it solidified Feige's resolve to ensure that actors/directors would willingly "toe the line" on his production vision or they wouldn't be hired.
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(10-31-2018, 04:13 PM)Munson Wrote: Hopkins phones it in hard, but even then he looked to be having a bunch of fun doing his Loki impression in Ragnarok at least.

That he is.

I'm hesitant to blame Hopkins, because they don't come any "old pro"-er than that, but it's weird that they took Odin of all people in such a sleepy, (theoretically) stately direction. Hopkins can certainly ham it up when he wants, and if ever a role called for Brian Blessed to devour entire backlots full of scenery, you'd think it would be the father of the Norse Gods.
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If at the time the MCU were on the unquestionably solid ground they've been on for years now, Hopkin's Odin could have gone a little broader. I think a hammy Odin would have, or was thought to have the possibly to hurt the toddlering franchise.
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Hopkins is super hammy in the first one, delightfully so. Then he gets tired in the sequels.

But I remember Blessed, a longtime Branagh collaborator, was very much in the running for Odin. I guess they just wanted a bigger name.
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I just don't understand what use anyone would have with a completely de-hammed Odin, in any context.
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