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THE PUNISHER (NETFLIX)

I'm about five or six episodes in (which took me a week).  While I like it, it's got a pretty huge problem with length.  There are way too many episodes in a show that clearly doesn't have enough story for it.  Basically everything I've seen could've easily been consolidated into 3 episodes at the most.  As a result, it's actually getting boring, because of the bloat, which is harming the show's quality.  There is some great stuff here, but I'm not sure why Marvel keeps shoving 13 episode arcs down people throats.  It's getting ridiculous.  I think these shows would be better served with 6 - 8 episodes.  Maybe 10 at the most.

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They let Stranger Things get away with 8 episode seasons, why not these Marble properties?

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AI’m guessing that the 13 episode seasons are ultimately a contract/budget issue. Maybe the initial Marvel/Netflix deals and actor contracts specified a length and they’re sticking with it to avoid renegotiations? Or they might be scared of bias/discrimination accusations if they cut one show (especially JJ or Cage) shorter than another (especially Iron Fist or DD. )
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I didn't read any of the thread before posting, but looking over some of the comments now, I'm glad to see I'm not alone.  I'm seriously hesitating on watching any future Marvel shows with 13 episode runs.  I just don't have time for filler episodes.

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I still haven't gotten past episode 4. Maybe I'll try and finish it during holiday break from work.



But I could have easily skipped Iron Fist after hating the first few episodes, skipped The Defenders after hating the first few episodes and straight up not missed out on anything. Becoming less and less of a completionist as I get older is pretty liberating.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by superlaser View Post

I’m guessing that the 13 episode seasons are ultimately a contract/budget issue. Maybe the initial Marvel/Netflix deals and actor contracts specified a length and they’re sticking with it to avoid renegotiations? Or they might be scared of bias/discrimination accusations if they cut one show (especially JJ or Cage) shorter than another (especially Iron Fist or DD. )


I think the former is more likely than the latter.



They clearly start out with the mandate that it be 13 episodes and have the writers STREEEEEEEETCHHHHH things out to fit that length.  So it can't be a story reason.

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I found this one to be really odd.  Like...in my brain I recognize that it's actually one of the better Marvel Netflix efforts.  Certainly better than Luke Cage (at least the aggregate...if it were only up against the first half of that season it might be different), Defenders, and leagues beyond Iron Fist (Defender of K'un L'un, Sworn Enemy of the Hand, Esq.).



I did NOT find it boring.  At no point during the episodes did I get the feeling of "Just get this over with already."  The only subplot that grated was the whole thing with Micro's family and Frank's involvement with them.  I did actually really like the way the Micro and Frank relationship evolved.  My only other minor quibble is that Frank didn't kill the psycho bomber kid himself.



And yet despite all this, I didn't remotely have the urge to "binge" this straight through.  I took about three weeks to get through all of it, and ultimately liked it a lot (Pretty much the whole cast is on point acting-wise, and the action is brutal and pretty great...when it happens).  But the sense of urgency just wasn't there.



I get why they're going for a more human Punisher, because as noted above, it's kind of hard to hang a whole series on an emotionless, stoic killing machine.  That said...I actually do kind of fear where they're going to have to go to get Frank to the point where he's waging war on ALL criminals instead of just "getting revenge for his family."   Let's just say at this rate I'd be surprised if Curtis, and Micro's family end up surviving the first half of Season 2.



(That or maybe Karen Page gets killed by Bullseye in DD Season 3 and Frank snaps because of it, but it'd be weird to have something like that happen "off screen" for Frank)

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I'm not bored in the sense of "get this over with", I'm bored in the sense that I don't have that urge to discover what happens next like with really good shows.  It's become a passive viewing experience for me.  And I've never experienced that with a great show, where the desire to know what happens next is very strong.



I think part of the problem is the supporting characters (other than Micro) are typical of stuff you see on terrible shows.  Cop lady is meh.  Her partner is meh.  The soldier guys are just sort of there.  There is really no other character that is even remotely as compelling as Frank is, and that's a problem.  So it feels very unbalanced.  And the "people in rooms talking" is really repetitive and starts to make the show feel cheap and isolated.



I dunno, I'll keep going, but I'm not in any hurry and at this point it's more out of obligation than anything.  And I think I'll pass on any future seasons if they're 13 episodes.

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I think they tried to address the pacing issue in Luke Cage the right way: by splitting the 13 eps into two arcs. The problem was that neither arc had enough meat for 6-7 eps.



13 episodes isn't War and Peace. I think the real problem is twofold...



1) I'm not sure the source material supports 13-episode long "important" arcs. The comics are basically a mix of one-offs and  spandex soap operas, lending themselves well to movies and longer (multi) season arcs with one-offs mixed in. Trying to tell a short story over 13 hours without eradicating the source material is a tough nut.



2) They're not hiring the right showrunners or writers. I mean, they employed the guy who turned Dexter from an Emmy winner into a series of jokes. Was every other showrunner busy?

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Oh, and there is also some typical WTF moments like Homeland sending in troops to get the drop on Frank at the dude's cabin, yet they send a helicopter so the fucking Punisher can hear them long before they arrive and be prepared.  No agency who knows who Frank is would ever do something that ridiculous.

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A[quote name="Ambler" url="/community/t/155441/the-punisher-netflix/390#post_4425346"]Oh, and there is also some typical WTF moments like Homeland sending in troops to get the drop on Frank at the dude's cabin, yet they send a helicopter so the fucking Punisher can hear them long before they arrive and be prepared.  No agency who knows who Frank is would ever do something that ridiculous. 
[/quote]I don’t think they knew Frank was there at first did they? Not that it was much better without as they were still hunting an ex special forces badass on his home turf.

That said: I’m not sure what the alternative would have been, transportation wise.

Also it was ANVIL/CIA, not Homeland Security. Probably limited in what assets they can pull without attracting attention.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmacq1 View Post


I don’t think they knew Frank was there at first did they? Not that it was much better without as they were still hunting an ex special forces badass on his home turf.

That said: I’m not sure what the alternative would have been, transportation wise.


They could've landed somewhere further away and driven from there.  There's just no tactical advantage whatsoever to the strategy they used.  I'm sure real soldiers were watching that and howling with laughter.

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A[quote name="Ambler" url="/community/t/155441/the-punisher-netflix/390#post_4425352"]
They could've landed somewhere further away and driven from there.  There's just no tactical advantage whatsoever to the strategy they used.  I'm sure real soldiers were watching that and howling with laughter.
[/quote]Speaking as a former real soldier, no, not really. Speed and numbers were likely all the tactical advantage they felt they needed.

I mean the guys that killed Bin Laden landed literally in the backyard of the place he was staying (one bird by design and one not so much).

I was laughing more at the first-person shooter imagery than any sense of tactical blunder. They were certainly overconfident, but that’s not all that unusual for PMCs, and even less so for Hollywood PMCs.
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I stand corrected then.



Seems counter-intuitive to me to want to kill someone isolated and trained by announcing your arrival long before you get there.



I remember watching the Unabomber show, and they used a similar strategy in the same situation.  Dangerous guy alone in a cabin.  Landed far away, drove from there.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
 

.  And the "people in rooms talking" is really repetitive and starts to make the show feel cheap and isolated.




Thank you!

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ANot a shocker but it's been renewed for a second season.
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Here's hoping for more action.

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Fuck that, I want more arguing over alarm systems every 5 minutes and subplots involving cops whose names I can't remember the second they're off screen.

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AI got three or four episodes in and realized I could do other things with my life.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

I got three or four episodes in and realized I could do other things with my life.



Like what?!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

I got three or four episodes in and realized I could do other things with my life.


Just jump to episode 10.  Or even halfway through episode 10.  You'll binge watch the remaining 3ish episodes at that point.  All of a sudden I was watching a different show.



You will miss nothing plot-wise.  Nothing.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Moltisanti View Post

Not a shocker but it's been renewed for a second season.


The Shocker is in Season 2?! Alri.....oh.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
 


Thank you!



I don't mind people in rooms talking if its compelling enough.  But the conversations are so bland and uninteresting, lots of exposition, procedural talk, etc.  I think a show about Punisher should be a little more active and less talky, but I guess that's what happens when you put out 13 hours of TV.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
 


Just jump to episode 10.  Or even halfway through episode 10.  You'll binge watch the remaining 3ish episodes at that point.  All of a sudden I was watching a different show.



You will miss nothing plot-wise.  Nothing.



Sounds like a plan.

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Finally forced myself to finish this.



Eugh...profoundly disappointing. There's a lot of good stuff. I like the focus on the treatment of Veterans in particular. But overall it just never gels into a satisfying whole. It's like it wants to be a Punisher origins season but we already got his origins so it's treading water for the most part. Everything with Micro and his family I just didn't care for. Madani I didn't particularly hate but is a serious drag on the pacing. And none of the action scenes were particularly memorable. Some good violence like the hammer bit, the dark room shoot out and what he does with Billy notwithstanding this is mostly a show about people in rooms and corridors talking and it just bored me to tears. Which for a fucking PUNISHER show...is kind of unforgivable.



It didn't have to be War Zone: The Series (although that would have been my preference) but if only it was just BETTER.



Still...at least it's not Iron Fist.

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AThe MCUTV is in serious trouble. Budget and self-censorship should not be an issue for Marvel/Disney, yet they are crippling shows.
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I got to see Madani's ass though.



That was nice.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Codename View Post
 

I got to see Madani's ass though.



That was nice.


But it also inadvertently highlighted the "boundary line" that these shows have been tiptoeing on with each passing installment.  We got the most explicit sex scenes of any Marvel Netflix show so far, and some bare butts, but "by God we won't be showing any nipples!  But we're not worried about a bunch of definitely R-Rated violence!"

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AI finished this.

Parts of this I thought were really good. And I appreciated trying to tackle some of the veteran issues, even if it kinda half-assed it. I would have liked them following through on Lewis being chewed up and spit out of the system, but no, he had to be Villain C that helped pad this thing out to 13 episodes.

Everything else has been pretty much said already. It held my interest more than the Defenders. It was better than the second half of Luke Cage and alll of The Worst Iron Fist Ever. I’ll watch season 2.
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I actually quite liked the Lewis subplot. Being betrayed or let down by pretty much everyone (except his poor Pa!), starting to listen to a supposed "older wiser guy" only to 1) be abandoned by him the first time trouble happens 2) find out he's a fake Vet, and THAT's the trigger that sets him off....on the path that said Fake Vet was steering him to!

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
 

I actually quite liked the Lewis subplot. Being betrayed or let down by pretty much everyone (except his poor Pa!), starting to listen to a supposed "older wiser guy" only to 1) be abandoned by him the first time trouble happens 2) find out he's a fake Vet, and THAT's the trigger that sets him off....on the path that said Fake Vet was steering him to!


True, but everything fake vet was pushing him towards was arming yourself. 2nd amendment. Plus he idolized the Punisher, who uses guns (and fists, and knives, etc.).



But to turn him into a bomber, and a suicide bomber at that, was just ... odd.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcjsavannah View Post
 

True, but everything fake vet was pushing him towards was arming yourself. 2nd amendment. Plus he idolized the Punisher, who uses guns (and fists, and knives, etc.).



But to turn him into a bomber, and a suicide bomber at that, was just ... odd.




OR....a natural manifestation of the man's inner coward.


OR...a sensible tactic he may have adopted from the insurgents he fought in Iraq. I mean, he comes to think the entire US system is evil, and he isn't prepared to commit suicide (despite threatening to) so why not use guerrilla tactics?

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FINALLY. I have been saying they should do this from the jump. Really in this thread, go look!
https://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/12/29/...alt-right/
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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"As for the man himself, Frank Castle won't be doing some Punishing from the get go. It will take the actions of John Pilgrim and his allies to draw the violent side of Frank Castle out into the open. But when Castle does put on that skull-adorned vest, it will be an epic moment."

God, why the fuck are these people allowed to run a Punisher show?
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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(12-30-2018, 06:48 AM)Evi Wrote: "As for the man himself, Frank Castle won't be doing some Punishing from the get go. It will take the actions of John Pilgrim and his allies to draw the violent side of Frank Castle out into the open. But when Castle does put on that skull-adorned vest, it will be an epic moment."

God, why the fuck are these people allowed to run a Punisher show?

Yeah that doesn't make me happy.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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