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The Democratic Party Going Forward
I wish we'd stop calling awful people "nice."
I was in a horror-comedy called BLACK HOLLER. It's now on Prime Video. Check it out!
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Biden's appeal to "bipartisanship" shows how out of touch he is.

If we learned one thing from the Obama Presidency, it's that Republicans will not compromise in any meaningful way. Ever.

That's beside the fact that there are no decent Republicans.
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Such hatred. I'll pray for you Amos
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You can't support child prisons and be a decent person. It's not complicated.
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Can you drone strike innocent people and stay a good person? Asking for a friend
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And now we're trying to reframe the argument, as predicted.

For the record, extralegal drone strikes are bad too. Obama is a war criminal by most sensible definitions.

But the explicit cruelty of the child prisons is a key feature that the Republicans base supports. Anyone planning to vote for Trump in 2020 is tacitly approving of this policy, and is justifiably labeled a "bad person", undeserving of a seat at the table (or love and compassion from their friends and family, but that's a different kettle of fish.)
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(03-13-2019, 12:54 PM)Amos Wrote: For the record, extralegal drone strikes are bad too.
But not so bad that supporting the perpetrators will compromise your obvious moral superiority!
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I don't support Obama, or the Democratic party at large.

Don't know what you're on about.
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"The contents of this message are hidden because Amos is on your ignore list."
home taping is killing music
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Right, I forgot the part where Amos pretends to be an independent sometimes.

Well, then, question: are there any decent Democrats?
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They kill babies in the womb before we can even put them in prison! - stock repub
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Guys, the family separation and child prisons are cruel by design - it's a feature, not a bug. It's the key difference between this and something like abortion policy, or the use of drones.

Using cruelty to dissuade immigrants (i.e. lowkey fascism) resonates with a majority of the Republican base, and it's clearly not a deal-breaker to anyone who'd consider voting for Trump again. It's shameful to see people here carry water for folks who support this atrocity, but that's centrism for you.
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Nobody's carrying water for them. We just find your preening and posturing amusing.
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Then what is so disagreeable about saying folks who support child prisons are categorically bad people?

It seems our opinions don't really differ on a logical level, but on an emotional one - because you have loved ones who are implicated. I do, too. It sucks.
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Just the part where this is less an actual reaction to Biden's remarks than the latest installment in the "Amos sure likes to hear himself talk about how morally superior he is to everyone he disagrees with (applause plzkthx)" saga of the last couple years.
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Moral high ground is a real thing.

Diverting the conversation into a series of whataboutisms only serves to muddy the waters on what should be a very clear issue.
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Moral high ground is a real thing.

It's also something that is only useful in the context of putting forth an argument to people who don't agree with you, rather than standing in front of a mirror jerking yourself off to the sound of your own amazingness.
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Um people clearly disagree with me, as evidenced on this very page.

You're doing a whole lot of projecting right now.
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I don't think "projecting" means what you think it means, dude.
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Just admit your beef with me is personal, and block me like Boone did.

Or shut the fuck up.
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This thread is great.
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(03-13-2019, 03:17 PM)Amos Wrote: Just admit your beef with me is personal, and block me like Boone did.

Or shut the fuck up.
Nah, I prefer doing this dance over again every few months like we've been doing for two and a half years now.
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that's dumb, but you do you.
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So, Joe Biden, right?
home taping is killing music
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Voted for the Iraq War.
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(03-13-2019, 03:26 PM)boone daniels Wrote: So, Joe Biden, right?

Terrible 2020 candidate!
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(03-13-2019, 03:27 PM)Amos Wrote: Voted for the Iraq War.

Am I the only one to get the feeling that the only person to survive the ‘Amos Doctrinal Purity Test’ is Amos?

All others are found badly wanting.
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Bernie is good. Liz ain’t bad either.
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(03-13-2019, 06:10 PM)Amos Wrote: Bernie is good.

So you're for people who haven't done anything?

Personally, I'll take someone who has done a lot, made some mistakes, but most of their actions I agree with... over someone who's spent a lifetime building Utopia in his mind.

But I will say this: I do find it hard to figure how someone could be a "good person" and a "Republican" today. People have been defending the members of the party of racism, misogyny, feudalism, warhawking, fear and hatred for decades now. It doesn't work any more. This is the party that wants to end public education; that supports a for-profit prison system that legalizes slavery; that gleefully persecutes Muslims and Latinos as sub-human and now engages in kidnapping and child trafficking as policy.

I have relatives that I'm certain still vote Republican, as they still parrot those "last line of defense" excuses to hate Democrats, like, "My gunses!" and, "But Obama..." I can have a friendly conversation with them, but they aren't my friends. I wouldn't call them bad people, but I can't call them good.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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When someone's whoopsie daisy "mistakes" leads to the death of a hundred thousand innocent people, I'd say it's firmly disqualifying in a contest of leadership.
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The Democrats are the party of pure goody-goodness!

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Beto's in. Announcement tomorrow.

Biden needs to announce soon, or he's going to be left behind.
home taping is killing music
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(03-13-2019, 06:45 PM)farsight Wrote: So you're for people who haven't done anything?

Personally, I'll take someone who has done a lot, made some mistakes, but most of their actions I agree with... over someone who's spent a lifetime building Utopia in his mind.

I think there is definitely a strain of idealogue that sticks to their version of the moral high ground so studiously precisely because it allows them to remain perpetually above the fray.  As long as you support only positions and politicians that are sufficiently fringe, you can forever spout about how much better things would be if only all the stupids were wise enough to listen to you, without ever running the risk of being proven wrong.  And in the meantime, you get carte blanche to criticize everyone and everything while touting your own moral superiority.  That's an attractive position, so long as you value scoring rhetorical points more than actually making tangible, if incremental, improvements in people's lives.  

I don't think that's the majority of Bernie supporters by any means, but I think he has been a magnet for people with that sort of mindset.  Which is part of why I've always been skeptical of the "Bernie Would Have Won" thing.  He may have, but most people that spout that line don't seem to be considering the complex web of variables that need to be considered to reach that conclusion.  One of which is that some of his most passionate supporters would have found a reason to abandon him if it looked like their outsider hero might actually be going mainstream.  Not a ton of them, I don't think, but it's not like he would have had some huge margin of error to work with.
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It's not that I'm against compromise and moderate politics in theory, it's just that right now the Overton Window needs to be reset before anything like that will be acceptable.

"Jail SOME migrant kids, not all of them" is presently a centrist position.
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