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The Democratic Party Going Forward
(04-16-2019, 04:05 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(04-16-2019, 12:44 PM)schwartz Wrote: Never been on the Bern train, but anything that flummoxes FOX on its home court warms the heart.

There's still room, Schwartz.  Join us.  

There's absolutely still time.  We're still a year out from actually having a nominee.  He's not my first, or second choice, but if a vote for him is a vote against the party that wants more Americans to be sick and afraid, that'll be an easy choice.
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In other Bernie news, here's some fresh scientific polling data:

   

https://emersonpolling.reportablenews.co...n-the-move
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Good, good.

**https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/biggest-u-health-insurer-slams-150417302.html

"Wholesale disruption" ... as though that's a bad thing?

I am telling everybody, Big Insurance, Big Pharma, Big Everything wants a Democratic nominee like Biden who is relatively progressive on economically meaningless social issues and solidly Big Business in regards to economic issues. As a Sanders, or Sanders-esque, nomination becomes more likely, we are going to see money spent on mud-slinging the likes of which we have never seen before. They will scorch the fucking earth with every distracting/dividing talking point that's out there.

**https://www.yahoo.com/news/navys-nuclear-missile-submarines-probably-222708119.html

Absolute insanity.
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(04-16-2019, 04:14 PM)Amos Wrote: I look forward to the day when posts about Bernie don't have to be qualified with "I'm not a Bernie fan, but..."

I just didn't want to be immediately accused of hopping on his bandwagon the second he had a good TV moment, after being vocally critical of him in this thread.  I expect to come off as a bit schizo about the Bern; I have serious misgivings about him, but I suspect that those issues will not be getting much media play, in favor of specious nonsense (like the idea that you can't be any stripe of socialist without being willfully destitute your whole life) that I will want to push back on.  

Medicare for All is an idea I like, and I'm glad to see it get traction with an audience primed to throw rocks at it on sight.  I can definitely cheer that much at least.
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What are these misgivings?  Lack of a track record of cooperation/compromise?  Dogmatic steadfastness over the occasional pragmatism?
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Aw man, Jay Inslee can't even poll higher than "someone else"? I hope he at least makes it into the debates. He's going to end up outside of the top five candidates but I think he has good ideas.
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what's funny is that 'someone else' in that poll is probably Barack Obama.
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(04-16-2019, 05:08 PM)Judas Booth Wrote: what's funny is that 'someone else' in that poll is probably Barack Obama.  And I intend to delete my pre-emptive post-release Endgame thread.

Barack Obama ... ahhh ... remember when we had a President who at least wasn't constantly embroiled in personal scandals/embarrassing behavior?
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But he was evil incarnate.  He wore a beige suit once, and wanted to disgrace our precious American cheeseburgers with mustard!  Dijon mustard!
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Amazon has its sights set on Seattle's city council:

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/am...committee/

Quote:Amazon is again putting its financial might behind the Seattle business community’s main political action committee, a sign that it intends to influence the wide-open election this fall for seats on the city council of its hometown.

Amazon’s $200,000 contribution to the Seattle Metropolitan Chamber of Commerce’s Civic Alliance for a Sound Economy (CASE) comes amid a tumultuous and changing relationship between the company and the city where it has some 45,000 employees.

The contribution was made on March 7 and disclosed Friday as part of CASE’s regular monthly report to the Seattle Ethics and Elections Commission. CASE had more than $485,000 in its account at the end of March.

“They’re the city’s largest private employer and like all of CASE’s members they’re really focused on supporting candidates who are accountable, and back-to-basics governing,” said CASE executive director Markham McIntyre.

Amazon has been a contributor to CASE since 2013, the first year the organization became closely involved in city elections, McIntyre said. The company gave the committee $365,000 during the 2017 election cycle. CASE poured much of that money into the successful mayoral campaign of Jenny Durkan.
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That chart is pretty much in line with what I was saying earlier... Bernie's best shot is against a wide field. People who like Bernie aren't ranking him 2nd or 3rd. And people that don't like Bernie probably don't have him 2nd or 3rd either.

I suspect that Bernie's numbers would shrink with the removal of almost any name from that list, similar to how Trump's polarizing nature helped him defeat a large field despite being unpopular over all.

I think he loses head-to-head against pretty much any of the top 9 rivals. But if the field doesn't shrink fairly rapidly, he could win before the party establishment can react, just like Trump.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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Bernie is definitely far down my list of choices. He did plenty in pushing the party to the left, now don't be a Nader and get outta there.

A Hawaiian shirt is like a cash gift - always appropriate
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If Bernie Sanders looked like Jon Hamm and had a charming Southern accent he'd already be President.
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(04-16-2019, 07:59 PM)chavez Wrote: Bernie is definitely far down my list of choices. He did plenty in pushing the party to the left, now don't be a Nader and get outta there.

"...Don't Be a Nader" needs to be on a shirt/poster with images of all the Dem candidates to remind them what's at stake.
I used to be with "it", but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't "it", and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.   -Grandpa Simpson
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Did Nader even run as a Democrat, or even once lead in the polls?

This comparison is dumb.
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A good read on Harris' tough-on-truancy policy in California:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kamala-ha...bfa1b57d2e

Quote:On the morning of April 18, 2013, in the Los Angeles suburb of Buena Park, a throng of photographers positioned themselves on a street curb and watched as two police officers entered a squat townhouse. Minutes later, their cameras began clicking. The officers had re-emerged with a weary-looking woman in pajamas and handcuffs, and the photographers were jostling to capture her every step. 

“You would swear I had killed somebody,” the woman, Cheree Peoples, said in a recent interview. 

In fact, Peoples had been arrested for her daughter’s spotty school attendance record under a truancy law that then-California Attorney General Kamala Harris had personally championed in the state legislature. The law, enacted in January 2011, made it a criminal misdemeanor for parents to allow kids in kindergarten through eighth grade to miss more than 10 percent of school days without a valid excuse. Peoples’ 11-year-old daughter, Shayla, had missed 20 days so far that school year.

The law was the capstone of Harris’ yearslong campaign to get “tough” on truancy, the term for when a child consistently misses school without a valid excuse. Harris’ involvement began in the mid-2000s, when the future senator and 2020 presidential candidate was the San Francisco district attorney. Harris had been disturbed to learn that a disproportionate number of the city’s homicide victims were high school dropouts, and that dropouts are more likely to become perpetrators or victims of crimes. Preventing truancy, she argued, was not just about the noble goal of ensuring every child’s education, but a matter of averting future criminals. So it only made sense for the city’s top law enforcement officer to get involved. Harris filed charges against a handful of San Francisco parents whose elementary school-aged children were consistently missing school.

A few years later, she persuaded the state legislature to adopt harsher penalties for truancy. Under the new law, the parent or guardian of a young, truant child could face a fine of $2,500 or more — or one year in jail. Harris pushed hard for the law as she was running for attorney general, and it passed just as she won the election.

“We are putting parents on notice,” Harris said at her 2011 inauguration. “If you fail in your responsibility to your kids, we are going to work to make sure you face the full force and consequences of the law.” 

Orange County heeded her call with particular enthusiasm. On the morning Peoples was arrested, police arrested five other parents — including several in front of waiting news crews — as part of what one assistant district attorney painted as an effort to prevent children from “being criminals or joining a gang.” The district attorney described Peoples’ conduct in unsparing terms, telling local news outlets she had ignored the school’s numerous requests for meetings and multiple warnings that Shayla was truant. 

“The defendant was offered counseling and parenting classes,” read a press release from the district attorney’s office. “The student was provided the opportunity for a mentor through Big Brothers Big Sisters of Orange County, a mentor at school [and] monthly meetings with law enforcement officers.” Peoples never responded to those offers, it claimed. 

Peoples read all this several days later in a state of disbelief. She has a soft manner and voice and has dedicated most of her adult life to caring for Shayla — who has lived with sickle cell anemia, a serious genetic illness that causes her acute pain and requires frequent hospitalization and medical procedures, since birth. 

Shayla frequently missed school because she was in too much pain to leave the house or was hospitalized for long-term care. Her school was aware of these circumstances; it had records on file from the regional children’s hospital explaining that Shayla’s condition would necessitate unpredictable absences and special educational accommodations. Peoples and the school had worked together to set up some of those accommodations, which are required under federal disability law. At the time of her arrest, Peoples claims she was fighting with the school to get it to agree to additional accommodations under an Individualized Education Plan, which she said the school had rejected. 

“This is a young woman who spends a lot of her life in the hospital,” Peoples said. “How is it that she’s giving off the impression of being a gang member? … Why are they coming after me?”

Peoples was caught up in the hugely complex forces Harris and her tough-on-truancy stance unleashed more than a decade ago.

Harris has since replaced her punitive stance with the message that parents of truant children need help, not scare tactics. It’s a shift that happened roughly in step with voters’ waning tolerance for using the criminal justice system to address complicated social problems and Harris’ own preparations to seek higher office. In the memoir she released shortly before announcing her candidacy for president, Harris described her work on truancy as “trying to support parents, not punish them.”
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Gillibrand’s proposals to fight the racial wealth gap include postal banking and baby bonds:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/dar...-proposals

Quote:New York Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand is endorsing a set of policy proposals that leading policy experts predict would “dramatically reduce” the racial wealth divide.

The proposals laid out in a new report include some ideas Gillibrand has pushed during her presidential campaign, like postal banking and proposals for full employment. But the endorsement also marks the first time Gillibrand has formally signed onto other ideas, like American children in need receiving at birth federally administered trust accounts that appreciate in value and become accessible once they become an adult. She’s also endorsing steps detailed by the coauthors like raising taxes on the ultrarich and the creation of a commission to formally review reconciliatory reparations for slavery.

A draft of the report, titled “Ten Solutions to Bridge the Racial Wealth Divide,” will be jointly released this week by the Institute for Policy Studies, the Kirwan Institute for the Study of Race and Ethnicity, and the National Community Reinvestment Coalition. The platform isn’t meant to be all-encompassing, but rather a guide for “actionable” steps as the political climate shifts toward fixing long-standing, systemic economic inequality, the authors said. Gillibrand told BuzzFeed News, which received an early summary of the report, that she was “proud” that it included ideas she’s fought for.

The intersection of race and wealth is a pivotal issue for Democrats ahead of 2020, as research shows that a majority of black voters strongly believe that they are being attacked and that racism is on the rise. Those voters, especially young black Americans, are placing a strong emphasis on economic opportunity and want aspirational leadership that will fight for greater equality. Early last year, Priorities USA and Color of Change PAC released its findings of a survey of unregistered black American millennials who overwhelmingly said their first priority would be to elect a candidate who “will fight to create jobs and raise wages, including among minorities and young people, and in disadvantaged neighborhoods.”
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(04-16-2019, 08:33 PM)Amos Wrote: Did Nader even run as a Democrat, or even once lead in the polls?

This comparison is dumb.


He didn't have to run as a Dem...his presence as an 'independent' sucked votes from the Dem candidates in the 2000 and 2004 elections.

The Nader comparison is referring to the 'third party' spoiler and is valid even if you choose to deny it.
I used to be with "it", but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't "it", and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.   -Grandpa Simpson
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Sanders isn’t running third party, though. That’s my whole point.
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(04-16-2019, 10:28 PM)Amos Wrote: Sanders isn’t running third party, though. That’s my whole point.

The problem is that the Duggar-like proliferation of Dem candidates could very well subdivide the vote along 'clan' lines.

If BS doesn't get the Dem nom....maybe Kamala or Pete or Joe end up being the nominee....I can see the hardcore 'Bernie or Bust' contingent being all butt hurt and deciding to NOT vote out of spite and in doing so, hand the WH back to the orange fuckstick.
I used to be with "it", but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't "it", and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.   -Grandpa Simpson
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Except that didn’t happen in 2016. Bernie conceded in Early summer, and then a higher % of his supporters voted for Hillary than Hillary supporters voted for Obama.
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I would be ok with voting for any Dem other than Tulsi I think.

I am a bit disturbed by the insta-popularity of all the white male candidates though.  And I'm a white male.



Side note - I saw a Tulsi bumper sticker not too long ago and I live in Los Angeles, it was dumbfounding to me.
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(04-16-2019, 10:41 PM)Amos Wrote: Except that didn’t happen in 2016. Bernie conceded in Early summer, and then a higher % of his supporters voted for Hillary than Hillary supporters voted for Obama.

Perhaps...but that wasn't enough to keep that fucking asshole we are saddled with now away from Wash. DC

Will all the Kamala voters vote for Bernie if he gets the nod? I don't want to roll those dice given the current state of affairs.

Will I vote for BS if he get's the nod....fuck yeah, but will Beto fans vote for Biden? Will Warren fans vote for Julian Castro if he were to get the nod....??

I have no doubt that there will be a social media onslaught by Russia, FoxNews, et al. to divide up the Dem base into small chunks in order to create disunity. All it will take is a little to fuck up this coming election.
I used to be with "it", but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't "it", and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.   -Grandpa Simpson
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Kansas Gov. Laura Kelly has signed a bipartisan law that lets counties let voters cast a ballot at any polling place within the county. It also requires officials to notify voters if there's a problem with their mail ballot signature and let them fix it:

https://www.kansas.com/news/politics-gov...13664.html

Quote:Sedgwick County residents will now have the option to vote at any polling place on Election Day.

Kansas Gov. Laura Kelly this week signed into law Senate Bill 130, which gives counties the option to let voters cast ballots at any polling place in the county — not just the one they’re been assigned.

“This law is about local control and protecting every vote,” Kelly said in a statement. “I applaud all of the local and state officials who worked together to make this law a reality, especially those in Sedgwick County who were the driving force behind it.”

The proposal had the backing of Sedgwick County and Election Commissioner Tabitha Lehman and Wichita Democratic Sen. Oletha Faust-Goudeau.

Faust-Goudeau has previously said the legislation will aid shift workers at aircraft plants on the edge of Wichita who drive across the county for work.

“We have to change with the times,” Faust-Goudeau said previously. “We are such a fast-paced world now. If we want things to be different, we have to do things different. I think (this is) some of the best legislation coming out of our 2019 session that will help all Kansans.”

More than 1,100 voted at the wrong place in last year’s state election, meaning their ballots were only partially counted. Under the new law, their ballots will fully count.

The bill also requires county election officials to attempt to contact advance voters who cast a ballot without a signature or those whose signature doesn’t match the one on file.
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(04-16-2019, 10:53 PM)Rylander Wrote: Side note - I saw a Tulsi bumper sticker not too long ago and I live in Los Angeles, it was dumbfounding to me.

I saw one of those a week or so ago, too! It was probably the same car.
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Look, I wasn't a fan of Bernie last time, and I'm not a fan of him this time. That said, I won't deny he's an extremely popular candidate, and he's in it to win. I'd support him as the nominee, despite my issues, and I'd do what it took for him to win the Presidency.

But I think there are two things that his campaign needs to do to really get people on board:

--Acknowledge that what happened during 2016 was perhaps not the best for either him or Hillary, and did wind up dragging down enthusiasm. I'm not even talking about Bernie himself, but rather addressing the intense trolling and misogyny experienced by many, many people during that primary season and the campaign as a whole. It's not a good look, for example, when you have interviews with Bernie supporters who say they voted Green or for Trump "as a joke." This is something I've made my peace with, mostly out of a desire not to relitigate the fucking primary this time around, but the fact remains there are many activists and voters who are still very "berned" by "what happened." And so I think things like hiring some of his most ardent Twitter trolls as key members of his staff is not a good look. Again, this is not something I particularly care about, but particularly with a lot of strong female candidates in the race, I think it'd be a good move for the campaign.

--What I do care about though is this: I want to hear Bernie or his campaign tell us how they're going to combat the right wing spin machine that's going to make him look like a dictator-loving socialist who could be the third lead on THE AMERICANS (Sanders: He supports socialism, but not us. This message paid for by the committee to reelect Donald Trump.). But I want to hear Bernie address the fact that he has been supportive of dictators like Castro and the Soviet Union. I don't even care if he condemns those actions or not. I just want him to make a "More Perfect Union" speech that talks about his own personal history with socialism and communism, and how he plans to address the future. Because those attacks are coming. (That said, I think every candidate has one form of this or another - Kamala and policing/sex work, for example, or Beto and the environment, Biden and women/Anita Hill - but of all the candidates, I think Sanders' embrace of Soviet-style socialism is the biggest vulnerability in the race, as it's the thing most likely to cut into center right and independent support, and the fact remains we need those voters.)

Anyway, we've got over a year, so who knows what the fuck could happen?
home taping is killing music
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Here's questions to ponder....

Which Dem candidate does Russia/RupertMurdoch/Oligarchs/GOP want to run against DJT?

Which Dem candidate will have the ability to actually scare the above mentioned group(s) because they stand the greatest chance of beating DJT?

Of, course....there's always the chance that the Dem candidate won't be running against DJT (cardiac problem?!).
Would Pence become the default GOP nominee?
I used to be with "it", but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't "it", and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.   -Grandpa Simpson
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chin scratch emoji

   
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Eat food across from Sweato Beto.

Yummy!

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I imagine he would climb on top of the table to address the crowd while you were trying to eat.
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https://news.yahoo.com/bernie-sanders-le...45586.html

All the bitter Hillary fans will eventually fall in line and bend the knee. The only alternative is that the Orange Walkers wipe everyone out.
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HEADQUARTERS OF BERNIE 2020, BURLINGTON, VERMONT:

Ro Khanna, camapign manager: "How many delegates do we need to sew this thing up on Super Tuesday? 700? Less?"

Bernie: "Fewer."
home taping is killing music
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(04-17-2019, 03:40 PM)Overlord Wrote: https://news.yahoo.com/bernie-sanders-le...45586.html

All the bitter Hillary fans will eventually fall in line and bend the knee.  The only alternative is that the Orange Walkers wipe everyone out.

They probably would, but I think it's more likely that they shift to the survivor of the Warren/Harris/Beto/Pete quagmire that is currently polling a collective 35%.  

Or maybe they will rally behind Joe, but it is feeling more and more like, despite currently showing 20 points ahead of the 3rd place challenger, his campaign is DOA.  Given the current energy and momentum within the Democratic party, it seems hard to imagine it manifesting in an 80 year-old white guy at the top of the 2020 ticket.  

Actually, it's pretty simple to imagine; if 2-3 of that quartet of younger candidates refuses to drop out, Bernie's 35 points become good enough.  In any case, polling data taken with over a year left in primary season is hardly destiny.  I'm guessing Obama wasn't the frontrunner in April 2007.
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There's a wiki for that! From this time in 2007:

Pew Research Center Poll April 18–22, 2007
Hillary Clinton 34%, Barack Obama 24%, John Edwards 18%, Al Gore 14%, Joe Biden 1%, Dennis Kucinich 1%, Bill Richardson 1%, Other/None/Unsure 7%

Rasmussen Reports Poll April 16–19, 2007
Hillary Clinton 32%, Barack Obama 32%, John Edwards 17%, Bill Richardson 3%, Joe Biden 1%, Chris Dodd 1%, Wesley Clark 1%

Fox News/Opinion Dynamics Poll April 17–18, 2007
Hillary Clinton 41%, Barack Obama 20%, Al Gore 16%, John Edwards 12%, Dennis Kucinich 2%, Bill Richardson 2%, Joe Biden 1% Chris Dodd 1%

Washington Post/ABC News Poll April 12–15, 2007
Hillary Clinton 37%, Barack Obama 20%, Al Gore 17%, John Edwards 14%

Source here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide..._primaries
home taping is killing music
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(04-17-2019, 04:45 PM)schwartz Wrote:
(04-17-2019, 03:40 PM)Overlord Wrote: https://news.yahoo.com/bernie-sanders-le...45586.html

All the bitter Hillary fans will eventually fall in line and bend the knee.  The only alternative is that the Orange Walkers wipe everyone out.

They probably would ... 

They will.
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