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AVENGERS: ENDGAME - Post-Release Thread (Unsponsored)
Yep. Someone willing to go a step or two past where "Age of Ultron" Tony Stark was willing to go...
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Secret Invasion could be a fun one too. You could easily thread it through several solo films, with post-credits scenes revealing someone from the film to actually have been a Skrull all along.
My karmic debt must be huge.

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A wild, no reservations European vacation makes a lot of sense for a bunch of kids who've been dust for five years.  Also probably, willingly on the dime of his recently deceased benefactor.
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So basically Doom is Lex Luthor/Bruce Wayne.

Plagiarists!
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(04-26-2019, 01:07 PM)MichaelM Wrote: So basically Doom is Lex Luthor/Bruce Wayne.

Plagiarists!

Doom is also a freaking wizard sometimes, putting him in natural conflict with Strange. The Avengers also just lost their tech wizard in Tony. Although  I suppose Reed will fill that roll within a few years.
"You want a vision of the future?Imagine a boot stomping on a human face.....forever."
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So who's the New Avengers? My prediction:

-Doctor Strange
-Captain Marvel
-Black Panther
-Spider-Man
-Ant-Man
-Valkyrie
-Professor Hulk (advisory)
-Sersei from The Eternals

Outside shot for Captain Falcon-America and Kate Bishop-Hawkeye, unless they're just Disney Plus-exclusive characters.
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The Avengers already have a potential replacement tech wizard:

[Image: letitia-wright-shuri-black-panther-600x350.jpg]
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Clint affectionately calls his daughter Hawkeye in the opening scene.  So maybe we get Lila instead of Kate.
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So do we want the movie to stop midscene and address every single way that Tony could have used the stones differently in that moment and why they wouldn't have work? Lesser feats almost killed Thanos and Hulk, so this breaking Tony makes perfect sense to me. Do we REALLY think, given the strain, that he had enough strength to use a stone to heal himself?

Besides, they already covered all of this with Dr. Strange. There's only one way it could have worked out so that's how it happened. Anything else, there's a reason that doesn't necessarily have to be explicitly explained on screen as to why it wouldn't have worked. If that's not ENOUGH for you, that's fine. Agree to disagree. But acting like the movie doesn't address it at all is disingenuous.
Superlaser speaks for me from now on.

-Bart
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I'm also counting down till the inevitable return/resurrection of Stark.

The real ending to Big...
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As an AI, I'm guessing...
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I feel like it's going to take a while for Stark to come back.
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For all the stuff that plays as unfortunately unintentionally goofy from the more poe-faced characters (Widow vs Hawkeye, Ancient One's sudden reversal, "I know this'll work, because I don't know what I'll do if it doesn't") it continues to flabbergast me how well the makers of these films have done at making Thor, the actual most inherently goofy character, so sympathetic.

On the Slashfilmcast review (with special guest WILLEMS) the way they put it was something like "Marvel seemingly decided that any time Thor is in a scene they're making a comedy", and yet, in both Endgame and in Infinity War, Hemsworth and the Russos have somehow managed to have Thor be the centre of some of the most moving scenes. The hurt that character carries, even when he's being a ludicrous buffoon, busting up the room, is never too far beneath the surface. As a Kiwi it cuts me to my core to send even the most minor praise in the direction of any Australian, and after seeing In the Heart of the Sea and Rush I don't think Hemsworth is as solid an actor overall as any of the folks playing other 5 main Avengers, but I can't think of anyone who could've done a better job than he's done at playing the Thor the Mighty Thundergod this universe has needed.

The unlikely success of that ridiculous character may even be the most miraculous thing in this whole miraculous 22-film exercise.
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Is this as good as Lord of the Rings?

Because that's the only way I'm watching a 3-hr Hollywood blockbuster.
the empire never ended
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It's more Return of the King than Fellowship.  Basically, mileage may vary based on your feelings wrt the previous films.
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cool, thanks.

I do love RotK. but I was all-in at that point.

I'm like half-in with this MCU shit.
the empire never ended
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(04-26-2019, 01:25 PM)Dent6084 Wrote: So who's the New Avengers? My prediction:

-Doctor Strange
-Captain Marvel
-Black Panther
-Spider-Man
-Ant-Man
-Valkyrie
-Professor Hulk (advisory)
-Sersei from The Eternals

Outside shot for Captain Falcon-America and Kate Bishop-Hawkeye, unless they're just Disney Plus-exclusive characters.

Might swap out Doctor Strange (I think he'll be an "ally" but not a full member of the Avengers) for the upcoming Shang-Chi.  But otherwise looks about right.  I don't think Hemsworth is done as Thor, so he might be back for one more Avengers movie, though the rumor I've heard is we won't get another Avengers movie for five years, though there may be a new "ensemble" introduced in the meantime.

I'm thinking once GotG3 is in the can, Gunn might be allowed to do what he's already inquired about at least once:  The Thunderbolts (since it seems like it might be a couple or three years before they get to the FF and longer for the X-Men.



Then again, Gunn may be scratching that itch with Suicide Squad 2, Reboot Boogaloo
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While my interest in most of the MCU has gone WAY downhill post Endgame (how "low-stakes" is Spiderman going to feel?), I will admit that Thor joining the GOTG team (and Gamora being rebooted to an earlier timeline) has boosted my enthusiasm for GOTG3 immeasurably.

Particularly as they clearly are heading off to parts unknown and leaving behind the depressing situations and plothole detritus that Endgame has left in its wake.

I already can tell I'm going to watch that final battle between the Avengers and earlier-Thanos probably once a month for years to comes.

**"I like this one" was such a cool moment between Hemsworth and bad haircut Captain Marvel! I would have liked more of that, but alas, the inability to figure out how to coherently mesh Captain Marvel's ridiculous abilities with the rest of the cast necessitated that she vanish for 90% of the film.

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I have officially reached 'The Force Awakens' level of regret about this film.

For all the fan-service-y goodness, I can't forgive that it doesn't make a lick of sense.

The Tony and Cap resolutions don't do all that much for me. And I am given more clarity about various character's fates by upcoming TV/movie announcements, than I am in the actual film.
PSN: Kriegaffe
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My main thing, they sent Carol out there to find Tony, right?  After the "where's Fury?" credit scene.  It doesn't work if she just stumbled on him by accident, but they also play it like they've never seen her before in the beginning of this one.
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So finally saw this...emotionally great, logically not so. Funny how those two can contradict.

I don’t think this was a terrible film, but when you bring in time travel you’re kinda just setting yourself up for disappointment.

That and the murdering of Thanos at the start, it felt kinda off. Like we need to kill him so he doesn’t interfere.
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(04-26-2019, 07:09 PM)kriegaffe Wrote: I have officially reached 'The Force Awakens' level of regret about this film.

For all the fan-service-y goodness, I can't forgive that it doesn't make a lick of sense.

The Tony and Cap resolutions don't do all that much for me. And I am given more clarity about various character's fates by upcoming TV/movie announcements, than I am in the actual film.

I am legitimately totally confused about what the hell happened with Cap's story.  They explicitly say they can't change the past without creating a new timeline, but didn't Cap staying behind do exactly that?  If he stayed behind and created a new timeline, why does he show up again in the "prime" timeline?  And don't tell me he was careful not to interfere, because that's impossible.  

[INSERT GOLDBLUM CHAOS THEORY IMAGE HERE]

Avengers versus Thanos was the heart of this film and when that was happening I loved it.  The time travel and fan service stuff?  It's not going to age well and most of it makes no sense.  

(04-26-2019, 07:15 PM)scottieferguson Wrote: My main thing, they sent Carol out there to find Tony, right?  After the "where's Fury?" credit scene.  It doesn't work if she just stumbled on him by accident, but they also play it like they've never seen her before in the beginning of this one.

I was also confused by that.  I completely thought that she'd been sent to get Tony, but rather than being greeted as a returning friend everyone seems surprised by her presence.

**She accelerated a spaceship to FTL speed in order to return Tony home.  Pretty neat trick.  You know where I'm going with this, why doesn't she just accelerate literally anything to light speed and kinetic ram Thanos into fucking oblivion?  She should be able to accelerate to FTL and just blast him into orbit.  They just didn't think it through when they created the character.

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(04-25-2019, 07:54 AM)the nz natural Wrote: Nice touch bringing Harley from Iron Man 3 back for Tony's funeral, too. In fact, the amount of people they brought back for tiny moments was insane.
Kudos for remembering that. I just feel bad for the actor who knew the ending.

I'm glad there are so many time travel experts in here. They laid out their rules in the movie and abided by them. They took the Stones and put them back. Gotta go with their rules

The smile never left my face during the final battle. I'll be watching that a hundred times over.

Sounds like LeSean McCoy spoiled Endgame on Twitter. glad I never drafted that bum in FF
AIt's just tits and dragons. - Ian McShane on Game of Thones
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(04-26-2019, 07:25 PM)anyawatchin angel Wrote: I'm glad there are so many time travel experts in here.  

Do we need to do this sort of thing in this thread, too?  How about we all just talk about the film.

And yes, Avengers vs. Thanos had me grinning ear to ear for most of it. MEW MEW, I KNEW IT!

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(04-26-2019, 07:20 PM)Overlord Wrote: **She accelerated a spaceship to FTL speed in order to return Tony home.  Pretty neat trick.  You know where I'm going with this, why doesn't she just accelerate literally anything to light speed and kinetic ram Thanos into fucking oblivion?  She should be able to accelerate to FTL and just blast him into orbit.  They just didn't think it through when they created the character.
because then it wouldn't be a movie. Why don't they just kill James Bond, why don't they just Kill Indiana Jones instead of locking him in a crypt...
AIt's just tits and dragons. - Ian McShane on Game of Thones
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(04-26-2019, 07:31 PM)anyawatchin angel Wrote:
(04-26-2019, 07:20 PM)Overlord Wrote: **She accelerated a spaceship to FTL speed in order to return Tony home.  Pretty neat trick.  You know where I'm going with this, why doesn't she just accelerate literally anything to light speed and kinetic ram Thanos into fucking oblivion?  She should be able to accelerate to FTL and just blast him into orbit.  They just didn't think it through when they created the character.
because then it wouldn't be a movie.  Why don't they just kill James Bond, why don't they just Kill Indiana Jones instead of locking him in a crypt...

Well, I would say it's far more immediately noticeable because the MCU is in large part a story ABOUT how super-powered beings utilize their powers in battle, whereas Bond and Indy films aren't ABOUT the manners in which Jones and Bond are to be killed ... but you're right to a certain extent.  It all comes down to where your immersion breaks. 

*Thor seeing his mum was surprisingly heart breaking.

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At least beat his sword throw when you're trying to get to the time machine van. She Britta'd it.
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(04-26-2019, 04:01 PM)wasp Wrote: Is this as good as Lord of the Rings?

Not on the whole, but it's definitely funnier. The Two Towers could have gotten a real boost if Korg and Miek had been part of Theoden's entourage.


(04-26-2019, 07:09 PM)kriegaffe Wrote: The Tony and Cap resolutions don't do all that much for me.

I've become more and more bored with Tony over at least the last half decade, as they've continually set and reset the character and it's felt like he's gone from "NO ROBOTS" to "GOTTA BUILD HEAPS OF ROBOTS" and back and forth and back and forth and back and forth, so I feel you, but one of the reasons I do want to see it again is I wonder if the earlier scenes with Tony - especially with a certain person he bumps into along the way - will hit harder knowing where his story goes.

Cap's still my boy though, even though Thor overtook him as The Best Avenger over the last couple of years. Cap's resolution didn't land as beautifully as I wanted it to, but it landed, and if anything the more I think about it the more I imagine what it means to do what he did leading up to the end and the more I like it.

(04-26-2019, 07:34 PM)Overlord Wrote: Thor seeing his mum was surprisingly heart breaking.

Pretty sure I've never said this before, but from Ragnarok to Infinity War to Endgame Thor has become the MCU's MVP.
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And now hopefully GOTG3.  Ideally complete with an 80s style workout montage.
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(04-26-2019, 07:48 PM)scottieferguson Wrote: And now hopefully GOTG3.  Ideally complete with an 80s style workout montage.

That's a brilliant idea. GOTG 3 should be awesome!  They left behind the narrative dead-ends and sticks-in-the-mud characters and are off to parts unknown!

**Man did life in New Asgaard look fucking awful.

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(04-26-2019, 07:40 PM)scottieferguson Wrote: At least beat his sword throw when you're trying to get to the time machine van.  She Britta'd it.

Heh, yeah.

Since Terminator 2, I've had a simple time travel rule: if it holds up as I'm watching, I'm not going to worry about it afterwards.

Carvel shooting through space through a starship, then getting dropped by a thrown weapon did not hold up as I was watching. It also made for a weird statement RIGHT AFTER the goofy "Grrl Power! We got this, boys!" pose. Maybe she would've had this if she hadn't stopped to take a smirking selfie?

Damned millennials!
Gamertag: Tweakee
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(04-26-2019, 07:59 PM)farsight Wrote:
(04-26-2019, 07:40 PM)scottieferguson Wrote: At least beat his sword throw when you're trying to get to the time machine van.  She Britta'd it.

Heh, yeah.

Since Terminator 2, I've had a simple time travel rule: if it holds up as I'm watching, I'm not going to worry about it afterwards.

Carvel shooting through space through a starship, then getting dropped by a thrown weapon did not hold up as I was watching. It also made for a weird statement RIGHT AFTER the goofy "Grrl Power! We got this, boys!" pose. Maybe she would've had this if she hadn't stopped to take a smirking selfie?

Damned millennials!

The general principle in regards to story-telling shenanigans like this are as follows:  "the more central to the story a plot element is, the more we are unwilling to accept inconsistencies or coincidences."

The mechanics of time travel are really not central to the plot of T2 (or many time-travel stories) in the slightest. They set up the story and then we're off to the races.  In Endgame, they go WAY out of their way to make the actual mechanics of how time travel works very, very central to everything that they are doing. 

This means there is a higher bar for consistency and logic.

**Danvers's power creep/shrink according to the needs of the plot is at epidemic proportions. Easily over 9000.

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My general time travel rule, forced on me by Doctor Who, is that I don't care if it doesn't make sense as long as it's in service of a cool, clever or interesting concept.

I'm ok with superheroes revisiting their own movies, it worked out well in pretty in Deadpool 2. And I was along for the ride for most of Endgame.

My particular gripe here is the tonal conflict of "fun hijinks in a time-heist" pared with "character has died and there is no way to bring them back".

As i watched the film, I remember my first "Wait, what?" moment. It was when Nebula brought Thanos's super star destroyer from the past into the current timeline. I'm thinking "So they're limited in time-jumps by the Pym-Particles. And cap grabbed extras in 1970... but doesn't someone need to go back and shrink the ship and.... arrgrgrggrh brain hurts!!!"

So I parked that thought and enjoyed the big battle. Yay!.... but by the final Cap scene I'm back to wondering how any of it works. Gamora, returning the stones, Black Widow, and so on. And for me it's really the fatal blow to the film. Every bit of the plot post-Black Widow seems confused about what the rules are.

So yeah, I'm happy to have time-wimey, wibbly-wobbly going on when it's for fun shenanigans in the background of famous movies. But too much of the serious stuff in the rest of the movie depends on it.
PSN: Kriegaffe
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(04-26-2019, 08:21 PM)kriegaffe Wrote: My general time travel rule, forced on me by Doctor Who, is that I don't care if it doesn't make sense as long as it's in service of a cool, clever or interesting concept.

I'm ok with superheroes revisiting their own movies, it worked out well in pretty in Deadpool 2. And I was along for the ride for most of Endgame.

My particular gripe here is the tonal conflict of "fun hijinks in a time-heist" pared with "character has died and there is no way to bring them back".

As i watched the film, I remember my first "Wait, what?" moment. It was when Nebula brought Thanos's super star destroyed from the past into the current timeline. I'm thinking "So they're limited in time-jumps by the Pym-Particles. And cap grabbed extras in 1970... but doesn't someone need to go back and shrink the ship and.... arrgrgrggrh brain hurts!!!"

So I parked that thought and enjoyed the big battle. Yay!.... but by the final Cap scene I'm back to wondering how any of it works. Gamora, returning the stones, Black Widow, and so on. And for me it's really the fatal blow to the film. Every bit of the plot post-Black Widow seems confused about what the rules are.

So yeah, I'm happy to have time-wimey, wibbly-wobbly going on when it's for fun shenanigans in the background of famous movies. But too much of the serious stuff in the rest of the movie depends on it.

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Overlord, the Cap timeline problem is remarkably easy to solve. It was discussed upthread. I had the same objections as you.

Steve goes back in time after he's gone into the ice. He goes to Peggy and lives a quiet life with her...but his "younger" self will still wake up in 2011 and do all the great shit we've seen him do. It's a pretty easy solution.

I'm with you 100% on Captain Marvel. Her abilities and power levels are completely fucked, on top of them not giving her any kind of personality or character traits beyond some very simple ones.
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