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AVENGERS: ENDGAME - Post-Release Thread (Unsponsored)
(04-27-2019, 03:55 PM)Bucho Wrote: I'm good thanks Mike. Seeing it for a first rewatch today with my niece and nephews, so curious about:
  1. Whether they'll dig it
  2. How many toilet breaks they'll need during the 17 hours it takes this film to tell its story
Hope you had a nice bath. Don't be such a (Doctor) Stranger. We miss your musk around this joint.


Thanks handsome. I always mean to but I find the new boards really don't like my phone.

Also I often spend so long agonising over a post that by the time I eventually pluck up the courage to submit it the moment has passed.

Glad you're well! I'll double my efforts!
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As I noted before: Steve kept quiet, up to and including not going to try to rescue Bucky earlier, because he knew if he interfered too much he would have potentially doomed half the universe. I doubt it was always EASY for him to do so, and wouldn't even put it past him to engage in some very clandestine work for SHIELD from time-to-time, but I don't think it would be out of character for Steve to preserve countless lives across the universe at the cost of his buddy not getting to be "OK" sooner rather than later (because it does...eventually...work out).

Also, my observant wife pointed out a detail that speaks to the time loop being stable (IE all these films have been taking place in a universe where Steve Rogers was growing old with Peggy): In Winter Soldier we see a video of Peggy talking about her husband and kids in 1953. In 1970 in her office at the-then SHIELD Headquarters, which dude's picture does she have prominently displayed on her desk? Be a little weird for her to have a picture of her quarter-century+ dead ex not-quite-boyfriend and not the guy she's been married to for decades and had two kids with...unless they were the same guy.
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(04-27-2019, 04:32 PM)jmacq1 Wrote: As I noted before:  Steve kept quiet, up to and including not going to try to rescue Bucky earlier, because he knew if he interfered too much he would have potentially doomed half the universe.  I doubt it was always EASY for him to do so, and wouldn't even put it past him to engage in some very clandestine work for SHIELD from time-to-time, but I don't think it would be out of character for Steve to preserve countless lives across the universe at the cost of his buddy not getting to be "OK" sooner rather than later (because it does...eventually...work out).

Also, my observant wife pointed out a detail that speaks to the time loop being stable (IE all these films have been taking place in a universe where Steve Rogers was growing old with Peggy):  In Winter Soldier we see a video of Peggy talking about her husband and kids in 1953.  In 1970 in her office at the-then SHIELD Headquarters, which dude's picture does she have prominently displayed on her desk?  Be a little weird for her to have a picture of her quarter-century+ dead ex not-quite-boyfriend and not the guy she's been married to for decades and had two kids with...unless they were the same guy.

If Steve and Peggy had kids does that mean all their little Lieutentant Americas are also superpowered?
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I fucking loved just about every minute of this. My one complaint: there is no way I'm supposed to believe that Tony Stark is two years younger than me. 1970? Get the fuck outta here!
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See, it's simple.

[Image: 4L6tN5u.png]
My karmic debt must be huge.

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Tony can't jump back to the prime timeline. That's why in my initial review I said his appearance at the end makes no sense.

Crisis on infinite timelines.

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And apparently Howard the Duck is with the Ravagers in the final battle.

   

(04-27-2019, 04:52 PM)Overlord Wrote: Tony can't jump back to the prime timeline.  That's why in my initial review I said his appearance at the end makes no sense.

Crisis on infinite timelines.

Why can't he?  If Cap can and does and Tony is with Cap...
My karmic debt must be huge.

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(04-27-2019, 02:24 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: 2.  Beating up people for spoiling a movie is not a good thing to do.

While we haven't seen our Ninth Amendment right to thrash people who spoil movies incorporated to the states yet, it is only a matter of time.

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One thing that struck me was how much funnier Infinity War was than this. There were some genuine laughs in IW for me, while the humor in this one mostly fell flat. Fat Thor jokes began to wear thin pretty quickly.

As a general rule, time travel in films that are not specifically about time travel annoy me. It felt a bit cheap and gimmicky and didn’t appear to make much logical sense. The final battle came across as a tad perfunctory, failing to come close to the main set pieces in IW or even the first Avengers. It reminded me of the Starkiller Base assault in TFA. We’ve seen this done before and done better.

As Overlord pointed out, it would would have been nice if Cap maybe decided to take a few family vacations in the 1960s, maybe stopping in Memphis and Southern California to trip James Earl Ray coming down the stairs, or pushing Sirhan Sirhan off a bridge.
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(04-27-2019, 05:43 PM)Kevin Macken 2.0 Wrote: One thing that struck me was how much funnier Infinity War was than this.  There were some genuine laughs in IW for me, while the humor in this one mostly fell flat.  Fat Thor jokes began to wear thin pretty quickly.

--Completely agree.  While there was some good bits of punctuated humor, most of the tone of this film was pretty grim and a lot of the "back to the well" recurring jokes began to wear out their welcome pretty fast.  

As a general rule, time travel in films that are not specifically about time travel annoy me.  It felt a bit cheap and gimmicky and didn’t appear to make much logical sense. The final battle came across as a tad perfunctory, failing to come close to the main set pieces in IW or even the first Avengers.  It reminded me of the Starkiller Base assault in TFA.  We’ve seen this done before and done better.

--I'm really trying not to sit here thinking about the time travel aspects.  It was super immersion breaking and didn't make much sense even while I was watching it. I just want to stop thinking about it and focus on the parts I loved.

As Overlord pointed out, it would would have been nice if Cap may maybe decided to take a few family vacations in the 1960s, maybe stopping in Memphis and Southern California to trip James Earl Ray coming down the stairs, or pushing Sirhan Sirhan off a bridge.

--It really adds a new dimension to Cap's character ... I mean, I totally get that he earned a vacation, but he basically sat there and watched history unfold ... not saying it's invalid or that I don't buy it, I just can't look at Captain America the same way anymore.  

See above.

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Of all the audience reactions, I think “hail Hydra” might have evoked the biggest, especially from me. The combination of Cap’s smirk and the Hydra stooges transitioning from shock to awe and that smile as if they had been approved of by their God. Poor fools.
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(04-27-2019, 01:47 PM)Fafhrd Wrote: Nope. The Ancient One is explicit: the power of the Infinity Stones maintain the timeline as previously experienced. Removing an Infinity Stone from its place in the timeline allows for an alternate timeline to exist, and when Banner suggests that if they replace the Stones to the exact time and place they were removed from they will prevent alternate timelines from being created she agrees. She's spent hundreds of years with the Time Stone, peering into the future. I'm inclined to think that she knows what the rules are.

The Infinity Stones that were removed from 2014, thus allowing there to be a timeline where Thanos vanished in 2014, were replaced. As far as the multiverse is concerned, Thanos et al never came to the future. The 'happy Steve' timeline was erased from the multiverse as soon as Steve was pulled back into the main timeline (and for all we know, in that timeline, while it existed, Steve also prevented a lot of the tragedies of the main timeline. What we see of it looks like the early 50s to me, so he'd be in a position to prevent Zola from creating Hydra inside of SHIELD, rescue Bucky from the Winter Soldier facility before his brain gets so scrambled that the brain washing can't be reversed with the tech of the time, etc).  

(04-27-2019, 04:47 PM)Richard Dickson Wrote: See, it's simple.

[Image: 4L6tN5u.png]

Haha. That chart looks about right to me, and I think actually *is* the simplest way to view things. That's why the Ancient One's explanation regarding the stones that Fafhrd brings up above strikes me as a weirdly needless, gilding-the-lily complication in this movie.

Time travel through the quantum realm, as originally explained, would seen to operate independently of the infinity stones' existence-- there are none in the main reality when the Avengers make their jaunt, after all. And if Cap travelled back to 1950 when none of the stones had gone anywhere, and he did marry Peggy, and he *did* push Sirhan Sirhan off a bridge, or continue adventuring, and he just stayed there, he would have created an alternate reality without messing with a stone. 

I don't see why the stones would arbitrarily reform the timeline after he leaves or dies either-- or reform the 2014 reality created by the Avengers' travel there, for that matter-- if it's already established that different realities can exist (by mention in Doc Strange's movie and the alternate 2012 that is definitely created in this movie).To the degree that any of this horseshit makes sense, that doesn't to me.

It's still important that the Avengers try to minimize the impact of their time travel (which they don't do very well) and for Cap to return the stones, because it would be irresponsible for heroes to, say, doom one reality to Dormammuu in order to save their own reality from Thanos. 

Otherwise, the simple version is: you go back in time, you create a divergent reality more likely than not, and return to your own unaltered present. You don't have to worry about paradoxes, or loops, or the stones reforming an altered timeline-- or Captain America sitting around for 75 years with his thumb up his ass while his wife attends the office Christmas party with a bunch of Hydra agents. It's an effing multiverse.

The only two bumps are that bit with the Ancient One and the *way* old Steve appears at the end. But what are you gonna do. 

Anyway my head hurts. Good movie.
Our sanitariums are full of men who think they're Napoleon... Or God.
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Richard Dickson is that your graph or did you find it online?

I think it can be made even simpler. But it may be because I’m dumber.

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Ended up seeing with some fam today. Oof. I dunno how you guys do it.

'Bout halfway through the climactic Ready Player One battle I was just begging for the movie to end.

This did have some effective moments, especially most of the stuff involving Stark, but overall I think I liked Infinity War better, and I didn't like Infinity War all that much.

So many should-have-been-deleted scenes.

Not much of the time travel stuff made sense so maybe this is a question thrown at the void, but why was Peter Parker's buddy still in high school? Was he one of the "snapped"? If so, why his facial reaction to Peter like "THERE YOU ARE AFTER ALL THIS TIME."

Anyways, my favorite part was 80% of the theater waiting through the long-ass credits for a stinger that would never come.
the empire never ended
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The presumption is that most of Peter's class (the key people in his life) did not survive the snap and thus they're all still high school students together.

It wouldn't make a lot of sense if not ONE of the extended Spider-man cast didn't get snapped but there you have it.
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Question that popped into my head... Did Tony have to die?

I mean yes Thanos came within seconds of destroying all life, but once Tony had all the stones couldn't he have just flown out of Thanos's grasp. With Captain Marvel in play, surely all of Thanos's army would have been defeated within the next 30 minutes.
PSN: Kriegaffe
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Wonderful, wonderful film, and a fitting ending to all the marvel journeys we've been through. Very well received, everybody cried at some point. A lot to process. I guess time travel was the only way to fix things, but yet again it introduces something overly (too) poweful into the marvel universe.

Still, very emotionally satisfying ending, which is the most difficult part.
There are weapons in my hands, my hands are weapons.
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(04-27-2019, 08:24 PM)freeman Wrote: The presumption is that most of Peter's class (the key people in his life) did not survive the snap and thus they're all still high school students together.

It wouldn't make a lot of sense if not ONE of the extended Spider-man cast didn't get snapped but there you have it.

I mean, the only classmates that matter are Ned, Flash, and MJ at this point (and Liz, but she was already written out). That's no more coincidental than Clint's whole family getting dusted. Or Hank and Janet and Hope.
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(04-27-2019, 09:07 PM)kriegaffe Wrote: Question that popped into my head... Did Tony have to die?

I mean yes Thanos came within seconds of destroying all life, but once Tony had all the stones couldn't he have just flown out of Thanos's grasp. With Captain Marvel in play, surely all of Thanos's army would have been defeated within the next 30 minutes.

True, but a lot of good people would have probably died in that 30 minute battle, including some of his best friends.  I thought about that, but the natural conclusion for Tony's arc is to sacrifice himself, and that's what he did. 

A better question is why Danvers (or Hulk, I guess) didn't snatch up the gauntlet as Tony lay dying and heal him.

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When this came up the other day I checked the returning actors/characters. Peter, MJ, Flash, Ned, Betty, Liz. The odds of those 6 all being snapped is 1 in 64.
PSN: Kriegaffe
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I knew thanos was full of shit
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(04-27-2019, 09:26 PM)kriegaffe Wrote: When this came up the other day I checked the returning actors/characters. Peter, MJ, Flash, Ned, Betty, Liz. The odds of those 6 all being snapped is 1 in 64.

Never tell me the odds.
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I wish it hadn't have used all of the musical cues from Castway, but I loved it anyways.

I found Marvel's Wilheim scream terribly funny.
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The Russos and Feige wouldn't fuck up the end of Cap's arc, but I wonder if anyone even broached the subject of Stan Lee playing Old Cap at the end thereby making all those cameos Steve Rogers making sure things stay on track or he helps them out in secret ways. We aren't talking DC here after all, but I bet the idea was brought up and then quickly shot down.
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(04-26-2019, 09:36 AM)catartik Wrote:
(04-26-2019, 09:23 AM)waaaaaaaalt Wrote: I don't know why you all aren't talking about the first openly gay character in the MCU. Guess it makes you uncomfortable!
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/aven...09424.html

Hold on a second I thought that was Valkyrie.

(04-26-2019, 09:36 AM)MichaelM Wrote:
(04-26-2019, 09:32 AM)catartik Wrote: And Cap wouldn’t change the future because he knows it all going to work out and waiting for them on the bench at the end was his way to make sure that he accomplished what they sent him back in time to do.

Except that means Cap doesn't expose HYDRA as being embedded in SHIELD. It means he's not there to lead the team to stop the attack on New York. And it means he's not there to help stop Ultron or Zemo.

There's no real sense to make of it, but it's thematically good so I just roll with it.

No there’s still a Steve they find in the ice. Everything still happens.

That Valkyria seemed to be into Hulk. The comic book one that seemed to be loosely based on that movie version is gay though
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There was absolutely no reason for this movie to be three hours long.

It needed to be edited down. So. Badly.

There were three deaths: Vision, Black Widow and Tony Stark.

Why wasn't Vision brought back?

Anyways, Tony didn't need to die. He wasn't the only one (other than Hulk) who could utilize the gauntlet. Hell, when Captain Marvel FINALLY REAPPEARED, she could have worn it. I had originally thought she would be THE ONE. 

I dug this movie but what I dug about it were the character moments. Like, moment between Banner and the Sorcerer Supreme (Tilda) - this was awesome. Reason being while yes, Banner Hulk Morph was entertaining AT FIRST, I wanted to see BANNER. And this moment gave me that. Besides exposition (needed and welcomed), it gave me a great moment between two excellent actors doing their thing, excellently. 

Other moments: the beginning. Wow. And Nebula and Stark. WOW! So good. 

One of my housemates and I were talking about this, this morning. He and my other housemate (his wife) finally saw it last night. I had seen it at the 11:30 showing Thursday. He and his wife? Didn't like it. Well, didn't like it all that much. He isn't a fanboy. He loves film. As I do.

I can be a fanboy as much as the next basement dweller. And from that part of me, this movie really did pander. Oh boy did it. As a cinephile? Infinity War was much more in the wheelhouse.  There were so many bits that could have been trimmed off in Endgame. So. Many.  The smaller, character beats appealed to me immensely. 

Here's the thing.  Remember, Amadeus?  Theatrical release was/is nearly perfect. A nearly perfect film. The recent release of that Director's Cut which ADDED scenes and extended a couple of others? Destroyed a nearly perfect film. Infinity War works because it's efficient. Guillermo del Toro and Peter Jackson have issues because they refuse to edit down their movies. Fury Road and John Wick are great because: efficiency 

See what I'm getting at? Which some of you may have pointed out and I apologize for not reading through this thread first. I just wanted to blurb this out.  One more thing: if they can do it, I want to see the 2hour cut of this movie. I betcha its GREAT.
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The MCU, for lack of a better word, is shaggy. The plots aren't always amazing, the enemies are usually boring, the "house style" (though less pronounced these days) is an issue BUT what Marvel did right was the character work. Despite all the shortcomings of the movies themselves, the characters were nailed and that's what I think is the true success of these movies and why they'll endure. Plus they have a pretty high floor when it comes to quality. No DCEU swings in quality here.
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(04-27-2019, 09:52 PM)smugbug Wrote: There was absolutely no reason for this movie to be three hours long.

It needed to be edited down. So. Badly.

There were three deaths: Vision, Black Widow and Tony Stark.

Why wasn't Vision brought back?

Anyways, Tony didn't need to die. He wasn't the only one (other than Hulk) who could utilize the gauntlet. Hell, when Captain Marvel FINALLY REAPPEARED, she could have worn it. I had originally thought she would be THE ONE. 

I dug this movie but what I dug about it were the character moments. Like, moment between Banner and the Sorcerer Supreme (Tilda) - this was awesome. Reason being while yes, Banner Hulk Morph was entertaining AT FIRST, I wanted to see BANNER. And this moment gave me that. Besides exposition (needed and welcomed), it gave me a great moment between two excellent actors doing their thing, excellently. 

Other moments: the beginning. Wow. And Nebula and Stark. WOW! So good. 

One of my housemates and I were talking about this, this morning. He and my other housemate (his wife) finally saw it last night. I had seen it at the 11:30 showing Thursday. He and his wife? Didn't like it. Well, didn't like it all that much. He isn't a fanboy. He loves film. As I do.

I can be a fanboy as much as the next basement dweller. And from that part of me, this movie really did pander. Oh boy did it. As a cinephile? Infinity War was much more in the wheelhouse.  There were so many bits that could have been trimmed off in Endgame. So. Many.  The smaller, character beats appealed to me immensely. 

Here's the thing.  Remember, Amadeus?  Theatrical release was/is nearly perfect. A nearly perfect film. The recent release of that Director's Cut which ADDED scenes and extended a couple of others? Destroyed a nearly perfect film. Infinity War works because it's efficient. Guillermo del Toro and Peter Jackson have issues because they refuse to edit down their movies. Fury Road and John Wick are great because: efficiency 

See what I'm getting at? Which some of you may have pointed out and I apologize for not reading through this thread first. I just wanted to blurb this out.  One more thing: if they can do it, I want to see the 2hour cut of this movie. I betcha its GREAT.

What are your feeling on bullshit time travel?
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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I'm glad the movie was 3 hours. I love that Disney wasn't hurrying people out the door after the big battle. We got a good 20 minutes of denoument and it was great. We lived with these characters for 11 years and 22 movies. The goodbye could have been an hour on its own. The movie could have been 5 hours. 3 hours breezed by for me.
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Besides rolling my eyes? I thought that plot device was handled okay here. It was moments like when Thor spends time with his mom, who remains dead, that I thought was a waste. In the end his whole thang was useless.

This is what I have a problem with.
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(04-27-2019, 10:09 PM)smugbug Wrote: Besides rolling my eyes? I thought that plot device was handled okay here. It was moments like when Thor spends time with his mom, who remains dead, that I thought was a waste. In the end his whole thang was useless.

This is what I have a problem with.

Caps ending I mean. I love the idea of it but execution bothers me.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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We were robbed the beautiful reunion scene of Steve returning the Soul Stone to Red Skull.
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I like how the end credits are what the We Hate Movies Podcast calls "A Victory Lap," where each title card shows footage of the corresponding actor.

Excellent movie! 11/10
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They ripped off The Undiscovered Country credits.
A My Blu-Ray Movies | er u tang is?
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Great artists steal.
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