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Gun Control thread
Well, see Louie, if a preacher just says God doesn't like us tolerating gay people, that's not a hate crime. It's stupid and antiquated and all around shitty, but it's not a hate crime. But if that preacher kills 20 people because God is angry we tolerate gay people, THAT'S a hate crime.
Just this guy, you know?
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(08-06-2019, 04:46 PM)Richard Dickson Wrote: Well, see Louie, if a preacher just says God doesn't like us tolerating gay people, that's not a hate crime.  It's stupid and antiquated and all around shitty, but it's not a hate crime.  But if that preacher kills 20 people because God is angry we tolerate gay people, THAT'S a hate crime.

Come on, you can't expect him to understand laws just because his job is to write laws.
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(08-06-2019, 04:46 PM)Richard Dickson Wrote: Well, see Louie, if a preacher just says God doesn't like us tolerating gay people, that's not a hate crime.  It's stupid and antiquated and all around shitty, but it's not a hate crime.  But if that preacher kills 20 people because God is angry we tolerate gay people, THAT'S a hate crime.

....and then there's the preacher who fucking knows his hateful fundamentalist rhetoric could easily push one of his woefully ignorant and heavily armed 'followers' into going out and killing a bunch of people.

IMO, that preacher is just as fucking guilty as the mf-er that pulled the trigger.
I used to be with "it", but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't "it", and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.   -Grandpa Simpson
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That's kinda where I landed..
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The Republican Party is a terror organization, so of course seeing terrorists punished more severely is going to hit close to home.

They've managed to terrorize 30% of the population into thinking the #1 worry in their lives shouldn't be their own health, their own income, or their own freedom; that instead it should be the fear that THE OTHER is going to come and steal their jobs, close their churches, rape their daughters, and kill them in their sleep.

That's why federal gun control will never happen as long as Republicans have any power to stop it. They need the terror that accompanies a country that is flooded with weapons of murder and mass murder. To them, mass murders aren't a problem; they're part of the goal.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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Can anyone imagine the pain the girl must feel?  Geez:

https://twitter.com/ksieff/status/1158859433646206976

Quote:Gloria Irma Márquez spent years trying to get her daughter a US visa. The government denied their requests. They spent 13 years apart. Márquez was killed in the El Paso shooting. Her daughter's first American visa came through this week, in time to attend her mother's funeral.
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Interesting developments:

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/45641...weapon-ban

Quote:Rep. Michael Turner (R-Ohio) said Tuesday he supports banning military-style weapons and implementing "red flag laws" following two mass shootings, including one in his own state, that killed more than 31 people over the weekend. 

The Ohio Republican said while he’s a strong supporter of Second Amendment rights, he believes action needs to be taken to prevent “mentally unstable people from terrorizing our communities” with assault weapons. 

“I will support legislation that prevents the sale of military style weapons to civilians, a magazine limit, and red flag legislation. The carnage these military style weapons are able to produce when available to the wrong people is intolerable,” he said in a statement.  

“We must pass red flag legislation to quickly identify people who are dangerous and remove their ability to harm others. Too often after mass shootings, we hear there were early warning signs that were ignored,” he said.
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Looks like a nice place:

https://twitter.com/CarolLeonnig/status/...4938075136

Quote:Here's the house CEO Wayne LaPierre wanted to buy with @NRA funds, according to people who have reviewed the documents now in the hands of NY investigators.

   
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What an asshole..
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The NRCC is about to get ratioed into oblivion for this shit:

https://mobile.twitter.com/NRCC/status/1...0341002242

   
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Politico surveyed almost 2,000 people for a new gun control poll.  Seven in ten supported banning assault weapons and 57% strongly supported it:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/0...an-1452586

Quote:Most Republicans would support legislation banning assault-style weapons, a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll found Wednesday — a finding that contradicts President Donald Trump's claim earlier the same day that there's "no political appetite" for such restrictions.

The poll found that nearly 70 percent of all voters would back such a ban. Support for an assault-weapons ban was higher, at 86 percent, among Democrats, who have been pushing for new restrictions on the firearms in the wake of two mass shootings over the weekend.

Republicans typically are more reticent to support new gun restrictions, and Trump campaigned in 2016 on his strong support for the Second Amendment. But the poll found that 55 percent of GOP voters were comfortable with banning assault weapons, and 54 percent said they would support stricter gun laws more generally. Ninety percent said they would back universal background checks for gun sales.

Only 23 percent of all voters oppose an assault weapons ban, the poll found. 

The poll was conducted Aug. 5-7, in the immediate aftermath of two mass shootings. A lone gunman opened fire Saturday at a Walmart in El Paso, Texas, killing 22 people. Then, early Sunday morning, another gunman murdered nine people in Dayton, Ohio.
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Just because a semi-automatic rifle has a mean-looking aesthetic that makes it look similar to a fully automatic military style weapon does not make it an assault weapon. The jargon is being conflated to illicit an emotional reaction from people instead of telling them the truth. There are 630,000 machine guns in the US but the restrictions on how to get one involve the FBI approval of your ownership and the vast majority of those owners are business like gun clubs and firing ranges. That is a fraction of the 400 millions guns in the US (which is still a crazy number).

Has a single mass shooter in the US used a fully automatic weapon? I’m pretty sure the answer to that is no. When the Las Vegas shooter used a bump stock to convert a semi automatic rifle to fire rounds almost fully automatic bump stocks were immediately banned.

The proposed “red flag” laws are a good compromise, and I think a lot of conservative gun owners are being a bit knee jerk in their reactions about the lack of due process and how your neighbours can make up nonsense about you in order to have your guns taken away.

In Canada our laws go even further than that. S.117 if the Criminal Code allows the police to enter your home, without warrant, and seize your firearms if there is a reason to do so for public safety. Your guns and your license are taken away and, within 30 days, the Police have to apply to have a hearing before a Justice of the Peace to determine if you get them back or not.

The major, major difference between Canadians and Americans is we have a high amount of social capital with each other. Guns are taken away from people here due to mental health complaints and domestic violence situations. I can see why Republicans couldn’t trust Democrats with this type of legislation in place because you guys outright hate each other because the of the out of control rhetoric from both sides.

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(08-08-2019, 12:12 PM)catartik Wrote: Just because a semi-automatic rifle has a mean-looking aesthetic that makes it look similar to a fully automatic military style weapon does not make it an assault weapon. The jargon is being conflated to illicit an emotional reaction from people instead of telling them the truth. There are 630,000 machine guns in the US but the restrictions on how to get one involve the FBI approval of your ownership and the vast majority of those owners are business like gun clubs and firing ranges. That is a fraction of the 400 millions guns in the US (which is still a crazy number).

Has a single mass shooter in the US used a fully automatic weapon? I’m pretty sure the answer to that is no. When the Las Vegas shooter used a bump stock to convert a semi automatic rifle to fire rounds almost fully automatic bump stocks were immediately banned.

You can just FUCK OFF with this gun fetishist semantic bullshit.

How to bumpfire without bumpfire stock

DUAL GLOCK 17 RAPID FIRE 60 ROUNDS IN 5 SECONDS

I've read to many diatribes where 'more guns are the answer' assholes go on with the excuse about how the 'guns look mean, that's why you don't like them'
It's a complete bullshit disingenuous argument.
People don't like these guns because they can KILL a lot of people very QUICKLY.
I used to be with "it", but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't "it", and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.   -Grandpa Simpson
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Yeah, fuck right off with that "Well actually..." bullshit.
Just this guy, you know?
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Love to see the pro-gun intellectuals dive head first into the discourse after a mass shooting with "what IS an assault rifle actually? the answer may surprise you!"
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But guys, what if 30-50 feral hogs rush catarik's back yard while his kids are playing? He'll need to send a lot of high velocity rounds in short succession! You'll all feel pretty silly then, won't you?
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haha, I was wondering when Professor Clown Shoes would pipe up with his latest dumbfuck argument. Right on time! Way to go C-Dog
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(08-08-2019, 12:12 PM)catartik Wrote: Just because a semi-automatic rifle has a mean-looking aesthetic that makes it look similar to a fully automatic military style weapon does not make it an assault weapon. The jargon is being conflated to illicit an emotional reaction from people instead of telling them the truth. There are 630,000 machine guns in the US but the restrictions on how to get one involve the FBI approval of your ownership and the vast majority of those owners are business like gun clubs and firing ranges. That is a fraction of the 400 millions guns in the US (which is still a crazy number).

Has a single mass shooter in the US used a fully automatic weapon? I’m pretty sure the answer to that is no. When the Las Vegas shooter used a bump stock to convert a semi automatic rifle to fire rounds almost fully automatic bump stocks were immediately banned.

Catartik, fully automatic weapons in the U.S. cost 40k and up, and the background checks are INSANE.  So the answer is "no," not one time has a mass shooter used a true selective fire weapon, as far as I can tell. Bump stocks are an "end round" the selective fire laws and should have been banned from the word "go," IMHO.

Last time I checked, every single mass shooting in the U.S., with the exception of ONE, has involved:

1.)Semi automatic pistol or rifle
2.)High capacity detachable magazines
3.)Shooter stockpiled a massive pile of ammunition with no oversight or "red flags" going off.

These would seem prime areas to look at for legislation.  

Most of the California style regulations have nothing to do with gun functionality and are based on "aesthetic scariness."  This is, in part, because rulings on the second amendment have made "aesthetic scariness" one of the few areas where functional legislation can actually be passed.

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(08-08-2019, 01:47 PM)Amos Wrote: But guys, what if 30-50 feral hogs rush catarik's back yard while his kids are playing? He'll need to send a lot of high velocity rounds in short succession! You'll all feel pretty silly then, won't you?

In that case Catarik should engage the 30 - 50 feral hogs in the marketplace of ideas.
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(08-08-2019, 12:12 PM)catartik Wrote: The major, major difference between Canadians and Americans is we have a high amount of social capital with each other. Guns are taken away from people here due to mental health complaints and domestic violence situations. I can see why Republicans couldn’t trust Democrats with this type of legislation in place because you guys outright hate each other because the of the out of control rhetoric from both sides.

I love that both sides comment.  Such an honest reply.  If only all of us could be as fair and balanced as you, sir.
I think these screen captures and giant (Dildi? Is there a plural?) are just the next step in the JJ Abrams online adventure series. Very slyly played, Bitches Leave.-Tom Fuchs
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(08-08-2019, 01:12 PM)vtran Wrote: You can just FUCK OFF with this gun fetishist semantic bullshit.

...

I've read to many diatribes where 'more guns are the answer' assholes go on with the excuse about how the 'guns look mean, that's why you don't like them'

Whoa.  Such spicy language!  Catartik politely stated his thoughts, and it seems like he was right on a few points.  

Better background checks, more training requirements (it's 100x more difficult to get a drivers' license than a gun license), and some sort of flag system for massive ammo purchases seem like great steps that everyone should agree on at this point.

Given how many people the police are questionably killing/murdering these days, I'd also like to take a hard look at the police and introduce new rules of engagement and de-militarization of civilian law enforcement.

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(08-08-2019, 01:47 PM)Amos Wrote: But guys, what if 30-50 feral hogs rush catarik's back yard while his kids are playing?

We'll have to rely on the only thing that ever stops 30-50 feral hogs: a good guy with 30-50 domesticated hogs living in his yard.
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Feral hogs are fucking scary, yo.

Within 3-4 generations pigs turn into these gnarled, ecosystem-destroying monsters.

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President Bill Clinton has an op-ed in Time about reinstating the assault weapons ban:

https://time.com/5647319/bill-clinton-as...ns-column/

Quote:It pains me to see people in the culture I grew up in buy into the argument that banning weapons of war threatens the Second Amendment and their way of life. As the 1994 assault-weapons ban shows, deaths from mass shootings fell while the number of hunting licenses actually increased. No one has to give up their culture to save the lives of innocent people, so many of them very young.

The gun lobby often invokes the Democratic losses in the 1994 midterm elections after passing the assault-weapons ban and the Brady background-check bill to try to scare lawmakers of both parties into maintaining the status quo. Those who lost their seats in that election did cast brave votes to make our country safer and give our children the chance to grow up and live their dreams. The 2018 elections, thanks to the passionate activism of citizen groups across the country, proved that it’s a different world now. Today members of Congress will be supported if they reinstate the assault-weapons and large-ammunition magazine bans, and if the Senate passes the universal-background-check law already passed by the House of Representatives.
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(08-08-2019, 02:52 PM)Overlord Wrote: Feral hogs are fucking scary, yo.

Within 3-4 generations pigs turn into these gnarled, ecosystem-destroying monsters.

So, pretty much just like humans.

Big Grin
I used to be with "it", but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't "it", and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.   -Grandpa Simpson
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(08-08-2019, 02:12 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(08-08-2019, 01:12 PM)vtran Wrote: You can just FUCK OFF with this gun fetishist semantic bullshit.

...

I've read to many diatribes where 'more guns are the answer' assholes go on with the excuse about how the 'guns look mean, that's why you don't like them'

Whoa.  Such spicy language!  Catartik politely stated his thoughts, and it seems like he was right on a few points.  

Better background checks, more training requirements (it's 100x more difficult to get a drivers' license than a gun license), and some sort of flag system for massive ammo purchases seem like great steps that everyone should agree on at this point.

Given how many people the police are questionably killing/murdering these days, I'd also like to take a hard look at the police and introduce new rules of engagement and de-militarization of civilian law enforcement.

Yeah, you guys need to ease up on that whole “Fuck right off” attitude. 

While I don’t entirely agree with Catartik’s view as to why people are so against the proliferation of these specific firearms, the dude at least supplied some basic information and backed it up with what appears to be solid data, all while offering  up several ideas for potential common sense legislation based on laws that currently exist in his country..

But with the exception of Overlord you guys ignored that last part in order to shit all over him for explaining what defines an assault rifle in a way that doesn’t jibe 100% with your view on the matter.

The dude actually agrees that more needs to be done, which is a hell of a lot more than I can say for .......(checks FB page)........yep, roughly 90% of the conservatives I know.
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Catartik doesn't get bonus points just because his disingenuous bullshit is slightly more measured than his conservative peers who want to turn schools into supermax prisons guarded by retired Fox News Grandpas with AK47s.

He can harp on the 'out of control rhetoric on both sides' all he wants, but its pretty obvious which side blocks all of the reasonable changes he's suggesting (spoiler: its the side that's controlled by the gun lobby).
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While I don't think there is a person anywhere whose position would be swayed even slightly by splitting the hair about "well, technically, an AR-15 is not a machine gun", Catarik specifically has burned a lot of capital lately in political threads, so his credibility as a good faith participant in the forum is pretty much nil right now.
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(08-08-2019, 03:08 PM)colonelcaine Wrote: Yeah, you guys need to ease up on that whole “Fuck right off” attitude. 

While I don’t entirely agree with Catartik’s view as to why people are so against the proliferation of these specific firearms, the dude at least supplied some basic information and backed it up with what appears to be solid data, all while offering  up several ideas for potential common sense legislation based on laws that currently exist in his country..

But with the exception of Overlord you guys ignored that last part in order to shit all over him for explaining what defines an assault rifle in a way that doesn’t jibe 100% with your view on the matter.

The dude actually agrees that more needs to be done, which is a hell of a lot more than I can say for .......(checks FB page)........yep, roughly 90% of the conservatives I know.

Too harsh, perhaps....but this "Well, actually..." line of discourse is one of the ways the hardcore gun nuts use to gaslight and distract from the fact that their 'hobby' (way of life?!) is built on a foundation of selfishness, irrational fear, and death.

There is a guy on another forum I frequent who goes on at length about how all the anti-gun people are just afraid of what the assault rifles look like...."it looks 'dangerous' and 'mean'...."
This same guy is not shy about telling everyone that he "always has a gun within reach around his house" and how he "rarely leaves the house without being armed with one of his guns"....because- "you never know when you'll need it"

Yeah, "we're" the scared ones...

This guy is truly the poster child for paranoia and gun fetishism. He willingly brags about how many guns he has (15 for him and 7 for the wife)

He's the kinda guy who thinks more guns are the answer to EVERY problem.

So yeah, I was bit harsh in my response but I've seen this gaslighting trick before and I have little tolerance for it.
I used to be with "it", but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't "it", and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.   -Grandpa Simpson
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I'm more likely to give people on here the benefit of the doubt but....when it comes down to the real nitty gritty of it....there needs to be no splitting hairs in limting/removing as many weapons made specifically to kill lots of humans really fast from the grasp of dangerous and mentally ill individuals, I don't care how many of these guns or their features warrant an asterisk next to them in some people's eyes. Nobody needs a machine gun to hunt anything but people..
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Alright, I’ll grant you guys the benefit of the doubt in that I haven’t seen the other posts you’re talking about.

I will say this, though. You’re fucking dead-on about these people being fear-driven.

Fraid, I know you remember the two massive evacuations that happened down here back in 2005 and again in 2008, in advance of hurricanes Rita and Ike. Specifically Rita, as that one was just a few weeks  after Katrina and the widespread panic that occurred was one of the scariest things I had ever experienced up to that point. There was a general air of lawlessness that I’ll never forget as I heard from friends spendings 16 hour stuck in the same spot in traffic, old folks dying in exploding buses. The police were spread thin and some folks took advantage of the situation. Someone came up into our garage in the middle of the night and stole several cans of gasoline.

My Dad was always big into the second amendment, but after the experience of both of those glimpses of what felt like the apocalypse he was never the same.

He was paranoid about “n*****s”,  in particular those who had fled to Texas from Katrina, breaking into his house, or robbing us blind and potentially murdering us in the next potential evacuation.

And so he slowly but surely started building his armory. I don’t know how many guns he has now, but I do know his gun safe takes up a significant portion of the bedroom he shares with my poor mother. Oh, and also there’s cameras on every patio and in most of the house. All this for a house in one of the tiniest towns over fifty miles from Houston.

There are hundreds of those little towns just in Texas alone.

All of them filled with folks with the same mentality as my Dad.

I don’t know when or if this can ever get better.
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When the boomers die off, things will get measurably better. Probably not much better, but a little.

Same as it ever was.
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It could be months or even years before the FBI can unlock the Dayton shooter's password on his smartphone:

https://thehill.com/homenews/administrat...ton-gunman

Quote:Top FBI officials informed congressional lawmakers this week that they have been unable to access the smartphone of the suspected gunman in the Dayton, Ohio, mass shooting, two sources told The Hill.

In a briefing about the weekend shootings in Dayton and El Paso, Texas, FBI Deputy Director David Bowdich told House Democrats that the agency is in possession of what’s believed to be Connor Betts’s primary phone but can’t open it because it requires a passcode, according to the two sources who took part in Wednesday's briefing.

Dayton police on Sunday identified Betts, 24, as the suspected gunman in the mass shooting that left nine dead and 27 injured. Police said Betts was killed by officers roughly 30 seconds after the shooting began.

During the conference call with lawmakers, Bowdich said the FBI “can’t unlock” the device. If Betts was using a six- to eight-digit PIN, it could be months or even years before the FBI can crack the password, Bowdich said.

“We don’t know when we are going to get into the phone,” he told lawmakers, according to a source on the call, one of several FBI briefings this week involving members of Congress from both parties.
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(08-08-2019, 06:14 PM)colonelcaine Wrote: I will say this, though. You’re fucking dead-on about these people being fear-driven.

My Dad was always big into the second amendment, but after the experience of both of those glimpses of what felt like the apocalypse he was never the same.

And so he slowly but surely started building his armory. I don’t know how many guns he has now, but I do know his gun safe takes up a significant portion of the bedroom he shares with my poor mother. Oh, and also there’s cameras on every patio and in most of the house. All this for a house in one of the tiniest towns over fifty miles from Houston.

My cousin is like this, minus the racism. He fully believes that society will collapse in his lifetime, so has stockpiled what is probably well over 100 guns of all shapes and sizes, plus other weapons.

I've asked him how he intends to shoot all of those guns, when his daughter is the only other person in his family who knows how. I never got a serious response.

In fact, I've never heard -any- gun nut explain the point of having dozens/hundreds of guns. Most of them are loners, so if shit hits the fan, they're not going to be recruiting strangers and handing them guns.

If I ever meet someone who has only a handful of guns, and an absolute ton of ammo, I'll give them credit for at least using basic logic in their apocalypse scenario!
Gamertag: Tweakee
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(08-08-2019, 03:52 PM)fuzzy dunlop Wrote: Catartik doesn't get bonus points just because his disingenuous bullshit is slightly more measured than his conservative peers who want to turn schools into supermax prisons guarded by retired Fox News Grandpas with AK47s.

He can harp on the 'out of control rhetoric on both sides' all he wants, but its pretty obvious which side blocks all of the reasonable changes he's suggesting (spoiler: its the side that's controlled by the gun lobby).

is catartik actually NdT???

all this time...

the tyson... and the neil...

   
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