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The Godfather Trilogy
(03-13-2018, 10:53 AM)bailey Wrote: I mean, there's a reason we're introduced o the characters the way we are.  Michael returns home after a long time away in military uniform, with an outsider girlfriend, at a big, boisterous family wedding.  The dynamic is right there to see.  And his journey back to the center of that family, with all the good and ill it entails, is the capital T Tragedy of that mafia life that Coppola was trying to portray.


I've been writing three paragraphs about how Michael is at the beginning of the film and, in all honesty, you nailed it in one.  The only thing that I'd add is Vito's glee that Michael is there tells you A LOT about how Vito and Michael feel about each other.
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(03-13-2018, 11:05 AM)Nooj Wrote: oh michael

you treated the movie like something to have in while multitasking

just go fold more laundry!

Godfather is a movie that really needs you to focus on it

I got to see both I and II in theaters years ago. Great experience

Other than that one post, nope. I did interrupt the film to leave the room a few times, but I didn't do other things while I watched.

NICE TRY!
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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LEAVE THE ROOM A FEW TIMES???

way to get swept up in it!!

go fold more laundry!!
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(03-13-2018, 10:57 AM)michaelm Wrote: Just to dovetail with another thread: I did read that Coppola only agreed to do the movie (a bunch of other directors had already turned it down) when he saw it as a way to allegorize American capitalism. That's an aspect I find interesting.

But it was also personal for him, too.  Portraying something about the immigrant experience, from the point of view of a big Italian family.  That's another portal into understanding why Michael made the decisions he made.  This isn't me deciding I'm not going to follow my dad into the insurance business.  Presenting the context of the first generation American whose father had come from nothing and built something that sustained the entire family's existence, that's a big deal.
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I like Bailey's and JB's posts about the film more than the film itself.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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the movie starts with a big ol' monologue about the American dream!
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(03-13-2018, 11:14 AM)michaelm Wrote: I like Bailey's and JB's posts about the film more than the film itself.


Thanks, but bort made some really good posts too!
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I don't want reward him too much.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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(03-13-2018, 11:18 AM)michaelm Wrote: I don't want reward him too much.



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I was sick and laid up last week so I went ahead and re-watched THE GODFATHER PART III after all.

This really is the original CRYSTAL SKULL, isn't it?  The movie isn't outright bad, but that somehow makes it worse.  Why the hell would you revive a legendary saga that had a perfect ending unless you've absolutely got the goods or are at least taking a massive swing?

Coppola seems to have somewhat lost his grasp on the tone of the series with the third movie. The Godfathers have always been melodramas, but it's like he forgot how to command the dials and veers things too often into soap opera territory.  The scene where Anthony literally sings his dad THE GODFATHER theme song has been rightfully reviled upthread.  I like the Vatican conspiracy angle, but the movie  "explaining" the death of Pope John Paul I is too much.  It's one thing to nudge up to real life events (the Cuban revolution) or have analogues for Bugsy Siegel and Meyer Lansky.  But the pope's assassination is full-on Indiana Jones territory.

I will say I am not on the Sophia Coppola hate train.  Her performance certainly does not have the refinement of a trained actress, but it gives Mary an authentically naive quality that I think kind of works.  I will also admit that I would have watched the Andy Garcia Part IV. They already fouled the nest with the third movie, so why not at that point?
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(03-19-2018, 03:52 PM)fatherdude Wrote: Why the hell would you revive a legendary saga that had a perfect ending unless you've absolutely got the goods or are at least taking a massive swing?

Coppola is said to have done Godfather III because he—or his company—needed the money. That may be true. But I also think the film was a way for Coppola to work through the death of his young son Gio. I would even argue that his son's death is the focus of virtually all the movies Coppola made in the late eighties and nineties (and possibly beyond—I haven't seen Tetro or Twixt). The only solid movie to come out of this artistic mourning is The Rainmaker, and even that is merely a conventional legal thriller.

The intensely personal nature of the film to Coppola is partly why it's so bad. The double whammy in the climax of Sofia's wooden delivery and Pacino's overacting is embarrassing to watch, but the emotions are so raw for Coppola that he can't see the flaws. It's so personal to him that he thinks he's in the same register as King Lear. 

Surely this also explains the naïveté of Sofia Coppola's performance. She's in mourning too after all.
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(03-19-2018, 03:52 PM)fatherdude Wrote: This really is the original CRYSTAL SKULL, isn't it?

Crystal Skull, at the very least, gets Indy's CHARACTER right. Ford's performance still feels like a continuation of where they left with Last Crusade.

As Judas summarized earlier, Pacino's performance in GF3 doesn't feel like the Michael Corleone of old. It's a misguided mix of poor direction, writing and performance. When we last see him in GF2, he's sitting there blank-eyed having just ordered the death of his brother and locked out his wife. In 3, he's this emotional older guy cracking jokes about listening to Tony Bennett records and acts friendly to everyone. Michael's supposed to be isolated at social gatherings! What ever happened to his murderous darkness and cunning?

Another thing I realized when watching it again recently is how uneventful Don Tommasino's death is. He's the old Sicilian family friend confined to a wheelchair and appears in all three films (though played by different actors). His death should be one of the dramatic moments of the film and it barely registers.
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THE GODFATHER PART II on the big screen for three days.  Check your local listings.

https://www.fathomevents.com/events/tcm2...rsary-1974

I attended the TCM/Fathom showing of LAWRENCE OF ARABIA earlier this year, and it was a legit DCP as opposed to a simulcast.  Stunning presentation.  Here is hoping this ranks the same treatment.
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I saw Godfathee 1 in theaters years ago. That was fun.

I like 2, but I definitely think the original is better.
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I can't argue with either position, as mine switches fairly frequently.  I think THE GODFATHER PART II has an objective defect in some slightly sloppy plotting, but it's such a rich movie that pulls off something truly rare in sequels -- it makes the original better.

Also, Frank Pentagelli might be my favorite character in the whole saga.  Crazy to think that he only exists because Coppola and the guy who played Clemenza couldn't come to terms.  Spontaneously quoting from the Senate hearing scenes is something that me and a friend of mine have done so often over the years that it is practically a greeting.  I think PART II might be the more quotable film, in the end.
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(11-07-2019, 02:43 PM)fatherdude Wrote: Also, Frank Pentagelli might be my favorite character in the whole saga.  Crazy to think that he only exists because Coppola and the guy who played Clemenza couldn't come to terms.  Spontaneously quoting from the Senate hearing scenes is something that me and a friend of mine have done so often over the years that it is practically a greeting.  I think PART II might be the more quotable film, in the end.

Gazzo is so great in the film. I'm glad he got that part, not only because he's so good but because it was likely that role that got him hired for his lovely scene in SUDDEN IMPACT.
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One of my favorite Frankie Pentangeli bits is when he chastises the band at the beginning for not having any Italians. Also love Willi Cicci. 

I feel that was another aspect missing in GF3 - the great supporting characters.
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(11-07-2019, 03:14 PM)ravi Wrote: I feel that was another aspect missing in GF3 - the great supporting characters.

I really love both Garcia and Joe Mantegna in the film. They're why the first half of the picture is quite good. It's when they all head back to the old country that it hits the iceberg.
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Oh yeah they’re fine, but I meant more the Vatican mobsters and corrupt priests weren’t very interesting compared to the ones in the first two films.

I felt they wasted Eli Wallach by making his character a lazy rehash of Hyman Roth.
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Yeah, wish they had done more with Wallach.

Swapping out Duvall for George Hamilton was also most unfortunate.

Special shout out to Carmine Caridi as Albert Volpe who I just learned passed away earlier this year. His cry of "IT'S MY LUCKY COAT!" may be favorite moment in GF3.
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It's not even worth thinking about how much better THE GODFATHER PART III might have been had it centered around war between Michael and Tom.
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(11-07-2019, 05:42 PM)fatherdude Wrote: It's not even worth thinking about how much better THE GODFATHER PART III might have been had it centered around war between Michael and Tom.

Was that the original premise?
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(11-07-2019, 05:47 PM)Judas Booth Wrote:
(11-07-2019, 05:42 PM)fatherdude Wrote: It's not even worth thinking about how much better THE GODFATHER PART III might have been had it centered around war between Michael and Tom.

Was that the original premise?

Yes.

Robert Duvall's incredibly candid interview about how money is the reason he wasn't in Godfather 3 is a must-watch.

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My understanding is that it took basically the whole budget to get Pacino to sign on, and there wasn't enough left over to pay Duvall a realistic salary.  He claims he would have done it for half of Pacino's take but was offered considerably less.  And I'm guessing he wasn't sufficiently blown away by the material to want to do the project in spite of that disparity.
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So the Fathom Event showings will have an intermission -- presumably at the same point that the DVDs were always split.

I was surprised to learn that THE GODFATHER PART II did not have an intermission during its theatrical run.  Apparently the intermission was planned for, and was used in test screenings, but Paramount nixed it in the end under the belief that it interrupted the movie's flow.  I guess that is the reason I get to find out what a ruptured bladder feels like when I see THE IRISHMAN next Friday.

I have often wondered about how THE GODFATHER PART II would have played in its test screening form.  The story goes that it cut back and forth more frequently between the parallel narratives -- too frequently to work.  The reception was so disastrous that Coppola and his editors feverishly recut the film in the scant weeks they had left before the release date.  The result is the masterpiece we know, but it was apparently a rush job and Walter Murch recalls Coppola lamenting that if he had two more weeks he could have got it perfect.

Another anecdote alleges that at one point, George Lucas suggested to Coppola that he ditch the dual narrative structure altogether and completely eliminate the Vito storyline.
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(11-08-2019, 12:30 PM)fatherdude Wrote: Another anecdote alleges that at one point, George Lucas suggested to Coppola that he ditch the dual narrative structure altogether and completely eliminate the Vito storyline.

I can't find the video at the moment, but here's a snippet from the documentary containing Lucas's exact words:


Quote:"Frank, you're cutting back and forth in time so much that there is no rhyming, no poetry to the movie.  It's too stylized. I highly recommend you cut the Vito storyline and instead incorporate that footage into a feature length prequel you can release in a few years.  Prequels are awesome."

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Coppola is entertainingly frank about Lucas.  There was an interview where he more or less stated that STAR WARS killed an interesting film maker.  You think back to the guy who made THX and AMERICAN GRAFFITI and, nearly, APOCALYPSE NOW, who contributed to THE GODFATHER (the story is that he directed the "going to the mattresses" montage), and you wonder what all those action figures robbed us of in the long run.

On the other hand, Lucas directed a lot of that STAR WARS money toward R&D in the 80s, and the reverberations from that are difficult to calculate. LucasArts, Pixar, and the world's first nonlinear editing system are but a few of the things to come out of all that investment in technology Lucas was doing with his wealth when a less visionary man might have fucked off to a private island.
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