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Scorcese's THE IRISHMAN
The same!

But I am pro-watermelon!

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Didn't you just say you agreed with shorts?
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Pro shorts, anti-watermelon.



(I watched far enough to get both of those jokes!)
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Grown men shouldn't wear shorts unless they're actually at the beach.
Our sanitariums are full of men who think they're Napoleon... Or God.
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I can think of more reasons to wear shorts than I can a suit.

But not in a meetin'.
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(12-10-2019, 06:47 PM)arjen rudd Wrote: These observations on Sheerhan are great. I think I’ve put my finger on what this movie reminded me of, and it’s Barry Lyndon. The existential angst of just being some guy.

Turns out a certain GDT had a similar reaction:

https://mobile.twitter.com/realgdt/statu...8617222146

https://variety.com/2019/film/awards/gui...203446159/
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Love that Del Toro essay.

I think about this movie *a lot.*
I was in a horror-comedy called BLACK HOLLER. It's now on Prime Video. Check it out!
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Martin Scorsese's daughter used Marvel wrapping paper on his Christmas gifts this year.

https://deadline.com/2019/12/martin-scor...202817022/
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I'm fucking obsessed with this film.
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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Same, Evi.

I'm pretty sure this was mentioned earlier, but it really struck me today how the ending of this is an intentional reversal of The Godfather; whereas Michael shut the door, willing to be consumed by darkness, Frank needs the door left open in the desperate hope that light will peek through in the end.

My favorite of the year, pretty easily...and this year was GREAT.
I was in a horror-comedy called BLACK HOLLER. It's now on Prime Video. Check it out!
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(12-29-2019, 03:32 AM)Mangy Wrote: Same, Evi.

I'm pretty sure this was mentioned earlier, but it really struck me today how the ending of this is an intentional reversal of The Godfather

'twas me!

but I like your additional thematic reading there
the empire never ended
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Watched this with my in-laws over the holiday. Safe to say "THIS IS MY UNION" has now entered the Pacino Yelling Canon.
home taping is killing music
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I saw this as a reaction to Goodfellas. While that movie's characters are violent assholes who don't want to work day jobs, there are parts of that movie that make it look like a good life; well until Hill gets involved in cocaine. The Irishman makes it out to be a job. Sure the money is better, but its still a job. At the end of the day Frank would have been better off being a truck driver. If he had done that his daughter would still want to talk to him.

  The scene that stuck out most to me was when Frank went to see his daughter at the bank. I felt bad for him, but he did bring that kind of treatment on himself.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is I've lost my way. The good news is I'm way ahead of schedule!
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(01-01-2020, 10:44 PM)Chaz Rock City Wrote: I saw this as a reaction to Goodfellas. While that movie's characters are violent assholes who don't want to work day jobs, there are parts of that movie that make it look like a good life; well until Hill gets involved in cocaine. The Irishman makes it out to be a job. Sure the money is better, but its still a job.

Yeah I found that the most interesting. Apparently there are guys who treat being in the mafia like working a 9-5. I have never really seen that before. Maybe Donnie Brasco? I always figured the draw, at least back then was that rockstar lifestyle. Even the Sopranos had the strip club and the nice house and cars and all that.
“I call upon you to stop this musical now,” she said to the board. “You tear a community apart if you don’t.” -Prachi Ruina                                                            
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There are a few scenes where it feels like a direct reaction to Goodfellas. The most striking is the prison scene where, instead of cooking up gourmet food in a separate part of the prison, they're stuck in genpop while an aging Pesci dips bread into grape juice.
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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The funny thing is Goodfellas was supposed to be about guys who have to grind out their living, in contrast to The Godfather. Yeah, they were all living a pretty expensive lifestyle for awhile there, but it was still about working guys. The Irishman is not a movie that beats you over the head with much, but it does underline certain aspects that I believe Scorsese was trying to get across with Goodfellas, but pop culture just ran with it and made it this whole other thing with almost the same kind of mythos The Godfather had.
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Probably helps that IRISHMAN was made with presumably far less cocaine.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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I generally like Scorsese's attitude of "if you can't look past the cool shit to see how awful these people are then there's nothing I can do to help you"
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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(01-01-2020, 10:44 PM)Chaz Rock City Wrote: Sure the money is better, but its still a job.

And come to think of it, was the money that much better?  The reason Frank was going to take that job from Whispers (the other Whispers) blowing up the laundry was because he needed to support his growing family.  He later tells us that he always did a job for Russell for respect and never for money.  Even the car he gets busted for in the end was something he purchased, albeit without paper work.

It's a little reminiscent to me of THE FRIENDS OF EDDIE COYLE, where Robert Mitchum is shown living in a cramped house despite having been a career criminal, and Peter Boyle's character is casually informing to the Feds for twenty bucks a chat.  You would think that the Faustian bargain involved with this life is that you're selling your soul for a ton of money, but the "blue collar" level is not depicted as being any better off financially than a guy who tended bar his whole life.
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(01-02-2020, 08:26 AM)MichaelM Wrote: Probably helps that IRISHMAN was made with presumably far less cocaine.

I'm pretty sure Scorsese kicked the coke in the early 80s.
I was in a horror-comedy called BLACK HOLLER. It's now on Prime Video. Check it out!
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IIRC the legend goes that he was cratering in the late 70's and De Niro used Raging Bull as a way to shake him out of it.

There was an interview with Schoonmaker recently where she was talking about how people came out of Goodfellas wanting to be gangsters cos they seemed to be having such a blast. Hard not to see The Irishman as their reaction to that.

Being on streaming might actually have helped this film quite a bit, because it's the kind of film where you can revisit individual parts and they work almost as well on their own as they do when you're going through the whole thing from start to finish. Youtubing "Irishman scene" is fun times.
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GOODFELLAS wanted to show how the world of organized crime could seduce somebody, so Scorsese made it look like a blast to be with these guys and emphasized the surface-level "excitement."

THE IRISHMAN wants to show what the world does to the souls of these people, even if they're not fully aware of it, as personified by Sheeran.  De Niro's work in the final half hour really strikes me as kind of the most important element of the entire movie.  

(01-02-2020, 10:32 AM)Paul C Wrote: Being on streaming might actually have helped this film quite a bit, because it's the kind of film where you can revisit individual parts and they work almost as well on their own as they do when you're going through the whole thing from start to finish. Youtubing "Irishman scene" is fun times.

I've watched the movie all the way through three times so far, but I've probably watched this single scene twice that many times.  Pacino in pseudo Big Boy Caprice mode is wonderful, and I think it's the most purely funny scene in the whole movie...


If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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For some reason the fish conversation gets funnier the more I see it. "So you just... go in there and say "gimme a fish"? You don't say y'want a salmon y'want a haddock y'want a... a fuckin' cod!?"
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I love the abrupt pivot in tone to "I'm going to jail..."  Pacino really does steal the show.  In some ways that is for obvious reasons, as Hoffa is by far the biggest and most colorful personality of the main cast, but the movie really needs that role, and Pacino sinks his teeth in.

Another one of the big laughs in the movie for me is Pacino's delivery of "They killed ummmmmmm!" when he rants that Joe Kennedy's kids essentially annoyed him to his grave.
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The fish conversation is amazing.

Pacino, Pesci and De Niro are a three-headed hydra of greatness in this movie.
I was in a horror-comedy called BLACK HOLLER. It's now on Prime Video. Check it out!
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For the tech-minded, I highly recommend the Irishman article in issue #168 of Cinefex, out now. I knew the de-aging FX were groundbreaking but I didn't realize how much so.
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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My favorite Pacino moment is when he first starts talking to Tony Pro in prison. Its Hoffa's casual sucks to be you vibe that I like.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is I've lost my way. The good news is I'm way ahead of schedule!
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(01-02-2020, 11:35 AM)fatherdude Wrote: Another one of the big laughs in the movie for me is Pacino's delivery of "They killed ummmmmmm!" when he rants that Joe Kennedy's kids essentially annoyed him to his grave.

Everything involving Hoffa's contempt for the family is gold.

Love his rambling, deliberately incoherent answer to Bobby's questions at the hearing.

(01-02-2020, 07:06 PM)Chaz Rock City Wrote: My favorite Pacino moment is when he first starts talking to Tony Pro in prison. Its Hoffa's casual sucks to be you vibe that I like.

He just wanted to be left alone with his ice cream!
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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(01-02-2020, 08:55 AM)fatherdude Wrote:
(01-01-2020, 10:44 PM)Chaz Rock City Wrote: Sure the money is better, but its still a job.

And come to think of it, was the money that much better?  The reason Frank was going to take that job from Whispers (the other Whispers) blowing up the laundry was because he needed to support his growing family.  He later tells us that he always did a job for Russell for respect and never for money.  Even the car he gets busted for in the end was something he purchased, albeit without paper work.

It's a little reminiscent to me of THE FRIENDS OF EDDIE COYLE, where Robert Mitchum is shown living in a cramped house despite having been a career criminal, and Peter Boyle's character is casually informing to the Feds for twenty bucks a chat.  You would think that the Faustian bargain involved with this life is that you're selling your soul for a ton of money, but the "blue collar" level is not depicted as being any better off financially than a guy who tended bar his whole life.

Also Brian De Palma's WISE GUYS, which has aged well since GOODFELLAS, THE SOPRANOS and even THE IRISHMAN.
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It's the best white guy deaging effects I've seen. There are still plenty issues and moments when it looks plasticy but it very often looks super real. The biggest problem is that we know how the guys used to look and even when the effects are realistic, they don't accurately capture young De Niro or Pesci.
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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No, I’d say the biggest problem is that even when the faces look convincingly young, the physicality remains markedly aged.  It throws off the entire performance.
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According to the article, an unexpected challenge was that reference of the actors at younger ages was often unusable because they were in character for stylistically different roles. And in Pesci's case, he was a lot heavier when he was actually in his 50s so the younger versions of Russell represent a skinny Pesci who never existed.

Gemini Man has a similar issue in that Will Smith wasn't playing roles like that in his 20s. You're kind of hoping to see a little Fresh Prince and it's not there.
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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(01-03-2020, 05:07 AM)schwartz Wrote: No, I’d say the biggest problem is that even when the faces look convincingly young, the physicality remains markedly aged.  It throws off the entire performance.
I somewhat agree with this, but I was only really thrown during the corner store scene.
I was in a horror-comedy called BLACK HOLLER. It's now on Prime Video. Check it out!
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It’s real bad in the corner store scene, but it was pretty apparent to me in the entirety of the three main performances.
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That largely didn't bother me it but I know it was a problem for a lot of people. It's funny hearing Scorsese talk about not really having noticed it until his DP brought up that Pacino wasn't moving the way a 40 year old should move.
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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