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Star Wars IX: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-Release Discussion)
Not all middle films in a trilogy needs a BIG cliffhanger for the third to pick up. TFA had already provided the big (literal) cliffhanger. There was enough left in TLJ for the third to pick up and finish off.
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That's another aspect of this movie I hate. People all said "you NEED Palpatine because what else can you do??" and that's such a criminal lack of imagination that I hate it. The Emperor in the OT was an interesting antagonistic presence to stand between Luke and Vader and stir shit up. Nothing more. His plot function is more important than anything, and that could be served by any sufficiently developed antagonistic force.

Like I've said before, the Knights of Ren as a squad of bad guys could fufill that role perfectly, and they would have had MORE setup than the Emperor, who is not in A New Hope.
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Well, if we're talking about second-act suspense, TLJ did end with the Resistance cut down to about twelve people. And yet, TROS starts with secret bases and cannon fodder galore.
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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(01-05-2020, 07:08 PM)hammerhead Wrote: Well, if we're talking about second-act suspense, TLJ did end with the Resistance cut down to about twelve people. And yet, TROS starts with secret bases and cannon fodder galore.

I always assumed TROS would be set many years later where we see a desperate First Order not thriving under Kylo Ren’s leadership while the Resistance grew in numbers. Kylo Ren then makes a deal with the devil, hence the zombie fleet.

Instead it’s apparently just one year later after TLJ and the First Order isn’t doing too bad? Ehhh..
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The put-upon urchin with the broom looking up at the sky, having just talked about Luke Skywalker with his pals and got a Rebel ring from a couple of freedom fighters who were passing by, is a vastly superior ending to Palpatine cackling. It's emotional, it speaks to the audience, and it sums up the film's theme. Thank God it didn't get compromised* to help ease in the lazy return of the villain who'd been soundly defeated 30 years ago and not mentioned on screen since.

Star Wars doesn't trade in TV-style (Matrix: Reloaded is the earliest one I can remember) sudden cliffhangers anyway. It ends with immediate issues being resolved - even stuff like Han in carbonite and Rey meeting Luke represent temporary endings or status quos. TLJ ending with Palpatine grinning at the idea of courting death would be result in a jarringly incongruous tone with the rest of the series.

*Which was never possible anyway, because Palpatine wasn't some set in stone thing, it was an idea that had been kicked around during TFA, when everything was being kicked around. Johnson can't be blamed for not setting up Palpatine, because he'd no idea the next creative team was going to use him - because, in part, they didn't either.

(01-05-2020, 06:32 PM)freeman Wrote: That's another aspect of this movie I hate.  People all said "you NEED Palpatine because what else can you do??" and that's such a criminal lack of imagination that I hate it.  The Emperor in the OT was an interesting antagonistic presence to stand between Luke and Vader and stir shit up.  Nothing more.  His plot function is more important than anything, and that could be served by any sufficiently developed antagonistic force.

Like I've said before, the Knights of Ren as a squad of bad guys could fufill that role perfectly, and they would have had MORE setup than the Emperor, who is not in A New Hope.

Bang on. An evil, inhuman overlord is not a requisite for the climax of a fantasy series. It's shocking how many people think Snoke or Palpatine was necessary for IX. Between Kylo Ren, the Knights of Ren, Hux, and the First Order, they'd plenty to work with. And a good villain is not the same as an apparently unbeatably strong one.
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(01-05-2020, 07:12 PM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 07:08 PM)hammerhead Wrote: Well, if we're talking about second-act suspense, TLJ did end with the Resistance cut down to about twelve people. And yet, TROS starts with secret bases and cannon fodder galore.

I always assumed TROS would be set many years later where we see a desperate First Order not thriving under Kylo Ren’s leadership while the Resistance grew in numbers. Kylo Ren then makes a deal with the devil, hence the zombie fleet.

Instead it’s apparently just one year later after TLJ and the First Order isn’t doing too bad? Ehhh..

Like, every fan theory is better than what we got.

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I liked the movie. I give it 6/10 on the Star Wars rating scale. There’s always room for improvement!
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(01-05-2020, 05:44 PM)Belloq87 Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 05:35 PM)Paul755 Wrote: Discussing this with my friend as we drove home last night. Biggest change we would have made was to have the Palpatine reveal happen at the end of TLJ instead of the kid force sweeping the horse stalls. Have it be a big WTF cliffhanger. Maybe fade to black with him cackling.

That's the kind of clear and compelling hook that, ideally, the end of a middle installment should have as the lead-in to the finale.

that feels like marvel post-credit scenes infecting the star war

given the final statement the broomboy scene was making, such an unrelated tease would, I think, would've been actively detrimental to that intent for the sake of making star war more 'bingeable'

edit: oh! rex already covered it better!
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I don't like broom kid, so I'd have no problem axing him in favor of a more direct hook for IX!

And just wait until THE HIGH REPUBLIC ERA SW movies that are coming! The galaxy is about to get MCU'd.

(Note: I'm not happy about that prospect.)
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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you're willing to sacrifice sure footing for a killing stroke!!!

(sends belloq to DA COOLUH)
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[Image: source.gif]
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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aw, I wanna play!!!
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(01-05-2020, 07:26 PM)mr. stockslivevan Wrote: I liked the movie. I give it 6/10 on the Star Wars rating scale. There’s always room for improvement!

Where is that room though? In The JJ Cut?
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(01-05-2020, 07:38 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: I don't like broom kid, so I'd have no problem axing him in favor of a more direct hook for IX!

That pretty much sums it up right there.
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(01-05-2020, 07:38 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: I don't like broom kid, so I'd have no problem axing him in favor of a more direct hook for IX!

And just wait until THE HIGH REPUBLIC ERA SW movies that are coming!  The galaxy is about to get MCU'd.

(Note: I'm not happy about that prospect.)

I think I liked the idea of broom kid but boy, I did not like the execution.

Felt like something they sent the splinter unit to shoot on the set of a BBC Oliver Twist production.
the empire never ended
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hahahaha it really kinda does!

or even a commercial for "YOU CAN BE A JEDI KID TOO AT WALT DISNEY WORLD!!!"

PERFECT!
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I hope we see Splinter Unit in the new High Republic trilogy, he was one of my favourite Jedi knights from that era.
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(01-05-2020, 07:35 PM)Nooj Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 05:44 PM)Belloq87 Wrote:
(01-05-2020, 05:35 PM)Paul755 Wrote: Discussing this with my friend as we drove home last night. Biggest change we would have made was to have the Palpatine reveal happen at the end of TLJ instead of the kid force sweeping the horse stalls. Have it be a big WTF cliffhanger. Maybe fade to black with him cackling.

That's the kind of clear and compelling hook that, ideally, the end of a middle installment should have as the lead-in to the finale.

that feels like marvel post-credit scenes infecting the star war

given the final statement the broomboy scene was making, such an unrelated tease would, I think, would've been actively detrimental to that intent for the sake of making star war more 'bingeable'

edit: oh!  rex already covered it better!

It does sound Marvel-ey doesn’t it. Still, I think however you do it, revealing Palpatine at the end of TLJ  would have worked better for me then just doing it in the crawl.
"Every romantic comedy should just be called "Tryin' to Fuck" - Patton Oswalt
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Doing that would be entirely antithetical to what Rian was trying to accomplish.

"Let me kill off Snoke so we can bring in another old creepy Force Wizard for the third movie instead!"
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Dominic Monaghan: "Like a lot of Star Wars fans, I'm hoping there will be a director's cut so we'll get to see more and more of the stuff that was filmed. I wasn't there all the time, but even in the short time that I was there, there was so much stuff filmed that didn't make it to the theatrical version."

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-v...ut-1266205
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Extended/director's cut never happens.
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Any extended cut would have to make it past the Mouse's lawyer hordes, so yeah, that's never going to get an official release. Perhaps at some point a bunch of half-finished cut footage will get leaked and circulated as samizdat, but expect people to start dropping from "accidental" exposure to mysterious nerve agents if that happens.
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I predict there will be a smattering of deleted scenes on the Blu-ray, but none of them will give any indication of any radically different cuts of the movie existing. They'll be scenes we could easily see fitting into the theatrical cut.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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We'll get the extended cut for this on the same day that the original versions of the OT get released.
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(01-06-2020, 02:20 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: I predict there will be a smattering of deleted scenes on the Blu-ray, but none of them will give any indication of any radically different cuts of the movie existing. They'll be scenes we could easily see fitting into the theatrical cut.
Yeah, unless every scene is completely different and 90 percent of the story is altered, it's still gonna blow.
I was in a horror-comedy called BLACK HOLLER. It's now on Prime Video. Check it out!
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(01-06-2020, 02:08 PM)MichaelM Wrote: Extended/director's cut never happens.

Yeah, even if there's a better version of a Star Wars or Marvel movie, "canon" makes releasing them problematic.
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(01-06-2020, 02:25 PM)Mangy Wrote:
(01-06-2020, 02:20 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: I predict there will be a smattering of deleted scenes on the Blu-ray, but none of them will give any indication of any radically different cuts of the movie existing.  They'll be scenes we could easily see fitting into the theatrical cut.
Yeah, unless every scene is completely different and 90 percent of the story is altered, it's still gonna blow.

I agree.

Unless one of the deleted scenes was Babu Frik duel-wielding double-bladed lightsabers. That would save the entire sequel trilogy.
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(01-06-2020, 02:34 PM)barry woodward Wrote:
(01-06-2020, 02:08 PM)MichaelM Wrote: Extended/director's cut never happens.

Yeah, even if there's a better version of a Star Wars or Marvel movie, "canon" makes releasing them problematic.

A good example of this is the twin suns setting as Luke dies - in the film, it's ambiguous as to whether the island planet has twin suns, or whether that's a subjective moment of Luke seeing his childhood sky as he dies. But some official source - I think the website, or a visual dictionary - has, for the sake of a solid answer, firmly established that he was simply seeing the planet's binary suns. 

Incidentally, I sympathise with JJ wanting to revisit the twin suns, but Episode III used it for its last shot (and had good reasons, inside and outside the text to do so) and Episode VIII used it for Luke's death (which was similarly warranted, I feel). I don't think Rey looking into the twin suns is a bad idea, but it isn't as earned as the other two references, and it is a wee bit tired.
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I like this movie more than most around this joint, but even I think Rey ending on Tatooine - a place Luke and Leia had no love for - was dumb.
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Well, she couldn't lay Leia's saber to rest on Alderaan...

Naabu is just the home of their terrible co-dependent mother that suicided via lack of will rather than raise and protect them, so it's out.

Tatooine's the closest the Skywalker family ever had to a home (that still exists). It makes sense, if it hadn't been so rushed.

The bag lady census taker was definitely dumb, though.
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[Image: f6yqzeicw0941.jpg]

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Now that's a Marvel-style ending hook everyone could get behind.
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Rey Jagainstthemachine
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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(01-06-2020, 05:17 PM)farsight Wrote: Well, she couldn't lay Leia's saber to rest on Alderaan...

Naabu is just the home of their terrible co-dependent mother that suicided via lack of will rather than raise and protect them, so it's out.

Tatooine's the closest the Skywalker family ever had to a home (that still exists). It makes sense, if it hadn't been so rushed.

The bag lady census taker was definitely dumb, though.

She should've buried them on Mustafar.
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Anyone else convinced that a future movie is going to involve a bad guy going to Tatooine and digging up the two sabers?
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