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Scorcese's THE IRISHMAN
Reportedly, Scorsese treated most of the de-aged scenes as representing people who had lived hard lives and looked older anyway.
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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yeah, after the initial oddness, I just rolled with it because each dramatic scene was specific and compelling

unlike the CG monsters of that one temp movie. you know the one
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Its already been pointed out, but I too thought De Niro still moved like an old man. For as good as the de-aging CGI, in my head I knew there was something off about it. I had that feeling the first time I saw Frank when he was still a truck driver.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is I've lost my way. The good news is I'm way ahead of schedule!
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Yeah, the first flashback of Deniro and Pesci meeting at the filling station is rough, as is Pacino's pronounced hunchback throughout.
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(01-04-2020, 06:52 PM)schwartz Wrote: Yeah, the first flashback of Deniro and Pesci meeting at the filling station is rough, as is Pacino's pronounced hunchback throughout.
 
I wrote this thing about all that (and Paquin's silence) and why I actually liked that stuff.

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2...e-iri.html
the empire never ended
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That's a fantastic piece! I really like your interpretation of those elements.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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Thanks, man! Really appreciate you taking the time to give it a read.
the empire never ended
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Your thoughts about why the title is what it is -- and why the novel's title appears where/when it appears -- are definitely things I hadn't considered. I'd mostly thought using I HEARD YOU PAINT HOUSES was just a directorial flourish, akin to the title of THE DEPARTED appearing a full 15 minutes into the movie.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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I have a correction I must SCREAM OUT!

The first title card is

I
HEARD

(those two words weren't separated in the film I saw at the cinerama)


that is all!

Great piece!
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That DJ Nooj, he really knows how to cut a guy down to size!

I guess I will just leave it, though. Mistakes are good clickbait, haha.

Thanks for reading it, man.
the empire never ended
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On the subject of aging and de-aging, I found this pretty impressive for what it is (i.e. done by an amateur without studio-sized resources)...


If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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A big commitment on the part of the FX team for Irishman was to avoid applying animation and leave the performances entirely to capture. They ran into a couple of situations where they had to re-introduce facial lines and wrinkles that were key to subtle expressions.
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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I can believe it.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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(01-06-2020, 12:52 AM)Belloq87 Wrote: On the subject of aging and de-aging, I found this pretty impressive for what it is (i.e. done by an amateur without studio-sized resources)...



Interesting, it's very likely that Depp-Fake technology will overtake typical deaging technology soon, it does a fantastic job of porting over facial details that have been entirely diminished due to age. De Niro's eyes in particular make a huge difference. It does sort of give you the feeling that the guys at the big studios would rather create their own fancy new technology than use free software. Still, I actually thought they were before and afters when first watching it which made me really just how damn good the work they did on the film is.
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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Netflix releases a BTS featurette on the deaging in the film:

https://youtu.be/OF-lElIlZM0



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That's an illuminating featurette.

The ability to shoot without tracking dots on the faces seems like a big leap that was made.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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Huge. No camera helmets either. In the Cinefex article they talk about how tracking dots don't give you the performance between the dots.

The anecdote about Dennis Muren is great.
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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Uh oh, the youtube video essayists have gotten their filthy hands on the Irishman:





Here's the thing for me: of all the things there are to talk about with this film, the de-aging is one of the least interesting, but it seems to take up about 90% of the conversation, online anyway.

This fixation people seem to have with the grocery store scene is, imo, out of proportion to its significance to the film. If they'd used body doubles maybe the 'action' scenes (which take up, what, about one minute of screen time total?) would be better, but I doubt the film itself wouldn't be significantly better because those bits aren't where the meat of the story is.

Lets say they did what some think they should've done, and got a different actor for the younger Frank period. Would the Keitel scene be better if they'd cut in a different actor playing Frank? Personally I think it would probably be worse.
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Deaging was the best way to do the film. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a dumb dumb dummy.
I might have been born yesterday sir, but I stayed up all night!
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I may be a dummy, but you sir, are a right proper poopy-pants.
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I think I noticed the flaws in the way they were walking maybe once? I actually thought DeNiro did a really good job at being able to walk like a younger guy.

It's also easy to argue, as noted, that because those were guys who had been through war and were currently doing rather intense physical labor (driving/unloading trucks), their bodies probably "broke down" faster. I don't know. That's what I'd argue.

One of the things that really strikes me about this is how it's one of the rare films to try to offer a kind of unified, cohesive narrative around a lot of some of our great American tragedies and bogeymen of the post-war era. It reminds me a lot of something like JFK or the James Ellroy novels in that respect, but unlike JFK and Ellroy, Scorsese clearly doesn't quite buy into the fact that the mob got JFK elected and then killed him when he fucked up Cuba. But it does treat it with a kind of seriousness that intones: "But what if it did?"
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(01-08-2020, 10:56 AM)boone daniels Wrote: Scorsese clearly doesn't quite buy into the fact that the mob got JFK elected and then killed him when he fucked up Cuba. But it does treat it with a kind of seriousness that intones: "But what if it did?"

I picked up on this, as well.

I think it's because Frank seems to believe it, and Scorsese's presenting the story through his eyes.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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Quote:This fixation people seem to have with the grocery store scene is, imo, out of proportion to its significance to the film. If they'd used body doubles maybe the 'action' scenes (which take up, what, about one minute of screen time total?) would be better, but I doubt the film itself wouldn't be significantly better because those bits aren't where the meat of the story is.

It's the lone part that mildly distracted me, and I cited it as part of the de-aging conversation. Noticing a thing isn't a "fixation."

But yes, the vfx of the movie is definitely the least interesting aspect of the film to discuss, although maybe it's easier to talk about that then reflect on dying alone.
I was in a horror-comedy called BLACK HOLLER. It's now on Prime Video. Check it out!
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Re: 'fixation' I don't mean anyone specifically, but like if you go on Reddit and look at any post about the film, chances are the top comment and ensuing thread will be someone's hot take about the grocery store scene.

I mean if that's those peoples' main takeaway from the film then there's not much I can say to that. 'It's what it is'. But to me it's like, I dunno, fixating on a few dated effects shots in Terminator, or any other otherwise good film with a dodgy technical element.
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It's not like complaining about the effects of an old film, or even a dodgy special effect in a contemporary blockbuster, at all. It's a huge and unmistakable part of the filmmaking that pervades every aspect of the film, and if you think it was an error, an entirely unforced one.
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Wife's been out of town this week, so I used my free evenings after I put our daughter to bed to finally watch this. Fires on all cylinders, just a master at work with his best collaborators. I know he's a monster, but when Old Man De Niro is trying to talk to Anna Paquin and she puts up the closed sign and walks away...hoo boy. I went and adjusted our little one's blanket and made a silent vow never to alienate her by becoming a mafia enforcer.
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I'm an hour and fifteen minutes into this. Very deliberately paced. Kind of think it would have worked better as a 3-4 part miniseries as it feels heavily "chapter"ized/episodic.

Some preliminary thoughts:

--The MCU De-aging tech by Lola is FAR more impressive, IMHO, than what ILM accomplished here. Apparently the ILM process is easier on the actors as they don't have to wear dots or special gear, but I find the end result significantly less visually convincing. A lot of Polar Express Walking Corpse Uncanny Valley shit here ... shivers up my spine whenever I sense it.

In dimly lit scenes it's convincing enough, but in brightly lit scenes (particularly for long takes) it just isn't acceptable. I'm surprised Scorcese didn't come to that realization early in this process.

--The actors seem miscast for their roles. I feel like DeNiro should have played Hoffa (Pacino has been a weak note so far), Pesci should have played the DeNiro character, and Pacino should have swapped with Pesci. Feels like Pesci is playing against type in this, which is interesting ... I guess.

--Some of the old Scorcese magic is still there in how he depicts violence and the sweeping camera shots he uses when introducing different characters. The movie, at times, feels like full-blown nostalgia for past efforts. There's a little bit that's new here, but mostly it feels like a familiar story. At least, thus far.

--Plemons?!?!?!?!?!?

--Of course I'll finish it, but finally giving up on my idea of watching it in one sitting was a good call.

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I think this was the first time they tried the "multi-camera, no dots, real time" CGI for deaging. For what they accomplished, I was really impressed, but I can see how it might feel a bit plasticky. I have a feeling like any technology, it will get better.

Overlord, you're wrong about everything else, tho. Big Grin
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(02-13-2020, 03:29 PM)Overlord Wrote: Feels like Pesci is playing against type in this, which is interesting ... I guess.

Pesci playing against type is one of the best things about the movie, in my opinion.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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(02-13-2020, 03:48 PM)Belloq87 Wrote:
(02-13-2020, 03:29 PM)Overlord Wrote: Feels like Pesci is playing against type in this, which is interesting ... I guess.

Pesci playing against type is one of the best things about the movie, in my opinion.

Well, I am only an hour and fifteen minutes or so in, so I still have roughly 90-95% of the movie left to go!

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Pacino the weak link???
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Interested to hear where this goes, as I’m pretty sure the first chunk is all set up for the fall.
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IMO Pacino's Hoffa is the best thing about the movie. The role gives him a chance to go board, but in a realistic manner.
I've got good news and I've got bad news. The bad news is I've lost my way. The good news is I'm way ahead of schedule!
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Pacino's great. He plays it like if Big Boy Caprice was a real human being.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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I do wish he could have hung onto the Chicago accent for more than a scene and a half.
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth."--Steve McQueen
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