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Trumpocalypse Now
Looking like Mitch does have the votes to block witnesses and let the State of the Union next week be a big ‘ol victory lap for Trump.
"Every romantic comedy should just be called "Tryin' to Fuck" - Patton Oswalt
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If so, fine. Then every Republican in a blue/purple state can answer for their vote over and over until November.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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They won’t have to answer for shit because “owning the libs” is THE unifying philosophy among Republican voters.

In all these years you guys haven’t learned that?

You guys are like Charlie Brown with the football when it it comes to this stuff. It’s hard to watch.
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Why would you even want to own a lib?
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Aren’t you guys tired of constantly waiting for Trump to get a comeuppance? That’s not going to happen unless another populist runs against him, and even then only maybe. That’s really all the conversation needs to be about.

This thread is a colossal waste of time and energy. It’s just page after page of “Ah! Well, nevertheless,”
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(01-30-2020, 12:32 AM)Amos Wrote: They won’t have to answer for shit because “owning the libs” is THE unifying philosophy among Republican voters.

In all these years you guys haven’t learned that?

You guys are like Charlie Brown with the football when it it comes to this stuff. It’s hard to watch.

Not for a guy like Gardner. Colorado is closer to the blue end of the purple spectrum and he’s already on extremely shaky ground here. He’s hoping Trump’s coattails will carry him and while that may work for McSalley or Ernst it’s not going to work here. Even more so if witnesses are defeated and something worse comes out from Bolton’s book.
"Every romantic comedy should just be called "Tryin' to Fuck" - Patton Oswalt
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(01-30-2020, 12:48 AM)Amos Wrote: Aren’t you guys tired of constantly waiting for Trump to get a comeuppance? That’s not going to happen unless another populist runs against him, and even then only maybe. That’s really all the conversation needs to be about.

This thread is a colossal waste of time and energy. It’s just page after page of “Ah! Well, nevertheless,”

So go away?
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(01-30-2020, 12:48 AM)Amos Wrote: Aren’t you guys tired of constantly waiting for Trump to get a comeuppance? That’s not going to happen unless another populist runs against him, and even then only maybe. That’s really all the conversation needs to be about.

This thread is a colossal waste of time and energy. It’s just page after page of “Ah! Well, nevertheless,”

Man, Bernie getting wrecked by Warren in that mock caucus last night has you shook.
"Every romantic comedy should just be called "Tryin' to Fuck" - Patton Oswalt
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You people are deluding yourselves if you think impeachment is going to move the needle one way or the other.
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(01-30-2020, 12:58 AM)Amos Wrote: You people  are deluding yourselves if you think impeachment is going to move the needle one way or the other.

Nobody said it was going to do that much damage. But providing the knockout blow to people like Gardner and Collins...that it likely will do.
"Every romantic comedy should just be called "Tryin' to Fuck" - Patton Oswalt
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Quote:Man, Bernie getting wrecked by Warren in that mock caucus last night has you shook.
This is a bit, right?
Honestly can’t tell if this is sarcasm.
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(01-30-2020, 01:01 AM)Amos Wrote:
Quote:Man, Bernie getting wrecked by Warren in that mock caucus last night has you shook.
This is a bit, right?
Honestly can’t tell if this is sarcasm.

No bit. Your just being a bit of a Debbie Downer about something we all knew the outcome to and I’m just trying to figure why.
"Every romantic comedy should just be called "Tryin' to Fuck" - Patton Oswalt
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Performative despair is like Amos's whole thing, second only to performative self-righteousness.
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A portion of the US border wall in California fell over in high winds and landed on the Mexican side:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/29/politics/...%3A05%3A04

   
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(01-30-2020, 12:32 AM)Amos Wrote: They won’t have to answer for shit because “owning the libs” is THE unifying philosophy among Republican voters.

In all these years you guys haven’t learned that?

You guys are like Charlie Brown with the football when it it comes to this stuff. It’s hard to watch.

Who gives a shit about Republican voters?

Republican senators in blue/purple states will have to answer for their votes to NON-REPUBLICAN VOTERS. Ya' know, the other 72% of the voting public. The people who make those states blue/purple. The people that flipped the House in 2018.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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(01-30-2020, 02:18 AM)Paul755 Wrote:
(01-30-2020, 01:01 AM)Amos Wrote:
Quote:Man, Bernie getting wrecked by Warren in that mock caucus last night has you shook.
This is a bit, right?
Honestly can’t tell if this is sarcasm.

No bit. Your just being a bit of a Debbie Downer about something we all knew the outcome to and I’m just trying to figure why.

Maybe being the troll of a political section of a resuscitated movie board is a lot more comfortable and safe than trying the same in a full-out political online forum, where he'd get his ass handed back to him in broken pieces?
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The most populist candidate the Republican party has seen or will see for a very long time to come, and he lost the popular vote handily to a woman considered to be one of the least popular democrat possibilities.

In my opinion, no matter how much they cheat and lie and claw to relevance that's as much of a sign as anything. The Republican party is dead.
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(01-30-2020, 09:48 AM)freeman Wrote: In my opinion, no matter how much they cheat and lie and claw to relevance that's as much of a sign as anything. The Republican party is dead.

Maybe. But their long game seems to be less about staying alive than it is ensuring their bloated corpse will sit right in the middle of the room permeating everything with its miasma for the better part of our remaining lifetimes.
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Kudos on the use of "miasma". I had to look that one up.
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Lol.

https://twitter.com/AlanDersh/status/122...gr%5Etweet

Dershowitz: "They characterized my argument as if I had said that if a president believes that his re-election was in the national interest, he can do anything. I said nothing like that, as anyone who actually heard what I said can attest."
Not so much tooth!
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(01-30-2020, 09:48 AM)freeman Wrote: The most populist candidate the Republican party has seen or will see for a very long time to come, and he lost the popular vote handily to a woman considered to be one of the least popular democrat possibilities.

This just isn't a comfort anymore in 2020, after that populist candidate was caught trying to rig the next election and we've watched the entire party line up behind him to help him get away with it. Republicans won't allow a fair trial now; what makes you confident they are going to allow a fair election in the fall?
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(01-30-2020, 11:29 AM)fuzzy dunlop Wrote:
(01-30-2020, 09:48 AM)freeman Wrote: The most populist candidate the Republican party has seen or will see for a very long time to come, and he lost the popular vote handily to a woman considered to be one of the least popular democrat possibilities.  

This just isn't a comfort anymore in 2020, after that populist candidate was caught trying to rig the next election and we've watched the entire party has line up behind him to help him get away with it.  Republicans won't allow a fair trial now; what makes you confident they are going to allow a fair election in the fall?

I am sure the efforts to subvert the election will be stronger than ever.  But I also think part of what Freeman was pointing out is that they have to be.  The Republicans increasingly have to cheat to win, and cheating is quite risky and fairly hard.  More and more, the GOP has to paddle against the national tides to win elections, and while it is certainly possible to do that, it is also costly and exhausting, and in the long run I'd bet on the tides to wash out even the hardiest and best equipped paddlers. 

It's the short and medium term that fucking suck.
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Yeah, that. The question of what stunts they'll pull in order to rig the game is an entirely fair one - but in the last three years, they've done absolutely nothing to grow their base and plenty to alienate everybody but the hardcore supporters - and last time, before all that happened, they only barely managed to eke out a win by the vagaries of the Electoral College.
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(01-30-2020, 11:49 AM)commodorejohn Wrote: Yeah, that. The question of what stunts they'll pull in order to rig the game is an entirely fair one - but in the last three years, they've done absolutely nothing to grow their base and plenty to alienate everybody but the hardcore supporters - and last time, before all that happened, they only barely managed to eke out a win by the vagaries of the Electoral College.

Those vagaries haven't changed in the last 3 years though, so it is possible they will do it again.  But the more alienatd the majority of the electorate gets from the reality of GOP rule, the less margin of error there is for continuing to pull off heist after electoral heist. 

One great irony of Watergate is that Nixon really didn't need the dirty tricks that eventually came back to haunt him to win reelection, because Republican politics actually held widespread support amongst voters at the time.  The Trump-era GOP increasingly needs Watergate break-ins to succeed in order to carry politics and candidates that top out well under 50% popular support across the finish line.  I'm not a political savant, but if it were my party, it's not a position I'd feel very secure in.
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For all the Russian influence, gerrymandering and voter suppression they utilized in 2016... if 1% more of the eligible voters had tried to vote, it all still would have failed.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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(01-30-2020, 11:41 AM)schwartz Wrote: I am sure the efforts to subvert the election will be stronger than ever.  But I also think part of what Freeman was pointing out is that they have to be.  The Republicans increasingly have to cheat to win, and cheating is quite risky and fairly hard. 

I'd argue that, Mueller-dependent indictments aside, I think it's far less risky and difficult than it was five years ago.

We're seeing a blatant, wholesale co-opting of all three branches of the government, with the GOP leaders (and most of the rank and file) fully and willingly complicit because it keeps them in power. Even just two years ago the idea of the Executive Branch giving a blanket refusal to ALL Congressional subpoenas was virtually unimaginable. And we now have the WH's attorneys arguing, bluntly, that ANYTHING the president does for re-election is not impeachable, since the president automatically assumes that their own re-election is of course in the best interest of the country as well as for themselves.

And while a lot of us, myself included, look at the Mueller indictments as confirmation of the corrupt nature of the current admin, none of it has mattered thus far: Pumpkins is still president, Fuckface McTurtle has not discovered anything resembling integrity, and the contagion of unqualified, partisan judges continues unabated.

Maybe the results of the election in ten months will say something else - but even if there's a blue sweep of everything, there remain years, perhaps decades, of work to course correct for all of the "quiet" changes that have happened during Pumpkins' first term....and that will have to happen as the GOP will only intensify its trickery and deceit to regain power - and that will certainly include deepening the polarization and white nationalist rhetoric, oblique and otherwise.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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In late 2017, CNBC filed a Freedom of Information Act request for details about Jared Kushner's secretive meeting in China during Trump's visit to the country. The department told CNBC it aims to complete it by July 2021, about 3½ years after the request.

A lot of this will be a refresher for long-time readers of this thread:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/30/trump-ad...-2017.html

Quote:What wasn’t on the White House or State Department agendas: a meeting with private equity investors convened by Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and senior advisor, and U.S. Ambassador Terry Branstad. During our conversation with Shong at the time, he revealed he had accepted the administration’s invitation for Chinese investors to offer advice in a small-group forum with the two U.S. officials as they worked to outline the administration’s policy.

“Both sides, of course, realize we have challenges,” Shong said of the meeting’s tenor, in our two-person interview setup in the lobby of the China World hotel. “From the investment point of view, I can see both sides can benefit a lot for the future investment opportunities.”

At the time of the meeting, the Kushner family was under fire for its pursuit of overseas investors while Jared Kushner occupied a senior role advising the president on foreign policy ranging from Middle East peace to trade with China and Mexico. Kushner reported divesting his stake in the family company, and his siblings took the reins of the business and its search for foreign investment.

In the months immediately prior to the meeting, Kushner’s sister Nicole Kushner Meyer referred to Jared at an event urging wealthy Chinese investors to buy $500,000 visas to come to the United States and participate in an upcoming New Jersey project. The Washington Post and New York Times reported that investors at the Beijing sales pitch saw Jared Kushner’s celebrity status as a draw. Meyer later issued a formal apology, saying it was not her intention to use Jared to “lure investors.”

And then there was 666 Fifth Ave., the Kushner Companies’ marquee New York property, with $1.4 billion in debt coming due and a search for a new owner coming up empty. In 2016, the company was forced to abandon a deal to sell a stake to China’s Anbang Insurance amid concerns of a conflict of interest, should Trump win the White House. In August 2018, Qatar-backed Brookfield Properties announced it would pay upfront for a 99-year lease on the building, erasing the Kushner Companies’ financial troubles.

CNBC sought to learn about the agenda at the private investor meeting convened by Jared Kushner in China, on the sidelines of the president’s official visit, and how the attendees were selected. A White House official had subsequently confirmed the existence of the meeting to CNBC, but when pressed on attendees, the official would only say no real estate investors were present.

The White House and State Department did not respond to additional requests for information about the meeting. Shong, now aware that the meeting had not been disclosed by the Trump administration, declined to provide additional information.

To get the information, CNBC filed a request under the Freedom of Information Act with the State Department, requesting online and analog communications among the officials present, as well as information about attendees. The State Department acknowledged the request on Dec. 11, 2017, but suggested getting the information would take a long time because of the “unusual circumstances” around the request.

A former Beijing embassy official suggested that the relative newness of the political staff may be one complicating factor. Branstad himself had been in the job for several months, but his chief of staff and other aides had just been onboarded weeks, if not days, before the meeting. Even so, the official said the embassy’s front office was staffed by career bureaucrats, who are known for keeping meticulous records.
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(01-30-2020, 12:50 PM)MichaelM Wrote: Maybe the results of the election in ten months will say something else - but even if there's a blue sweep of everything, there remain years, perhaps decades, of work to course correct for all of the "quiet" changes that have happened during Pumpkins' first term....and that will have to happen as the GOP will only intensify its trickery and deceit to regain power - and that will certainly include deepening the polarization and white nationalist rhetoric, oblique and otherwise.

While true, keep in mind that once gerrymandering is undone, it is extremely unlikely to occur again, since the Republicans have no path to regain power except to abandon the far right.

And (among many others) Texas' state legislature is in play, with redistricting occurring after this election.

So your statement cuts both ways. It will take time to scrub away the Pumpkin Taint... but it will also take time (and a change of platform) for Republicans to recover if we vote in November.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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Wilbur Ross on the coronavirus:

https://www.mediaite.com/news/trump-comm...ican-jobs/

Quote:Trump administration Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross told Fox Business’ Maria Bartiromo that while the emerging coronavirus is a “very unfortunate, very malignant disease” whose victims deserve empathy,” he also saw the potential for a positive impact on jobs in the U.S. and Mexico.

On Thursday morning’s edition of FBN’s Mornings With Maria Bartiromo, the host told Ross that the spread of the coronavirus could cause the “Chinese economy come to a halt,” and asked him to weigh in on the virus’ potential economic effects.

“Well, first of all, every American’s heart has to go out to the victims of the coronavirus, so I don’t want to talk about a victory lap over a very unfortunate, very malignant disease,” Ross said, then added, “But the fact is, it does give businesses yet another thing to consider when they go through their review of their supply chain.”

“On top of all the other things, because you had SARS, you had the African swine virus there, now you have this, it’s another risk factor that people need to take into account,” Secretary Ross continued. “So I think it will help to accelerate the return of jobs to North America, some to U.S., probably some to Mexico as well.”

“That’s a good point actually because these companies have to do something, they’re going to have to have an alternative once they shut down things in China, is what you’re saying,” Bartiromo said.
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"The dress has been tested. We have the results. My attorney @kaplanrobbie has served notice to @realDonaldTrump's attorney to submit a sample of Trump's DNA."
https://twitter.com/ejeancarroll/status/...4700537856
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ETA: In response to farsight's last post above:

You exhibit an optimism I do not, at the present time, share.  Dems have been attempting to undo gerrymandering with what seems like very limited success. And given the large amount of serving-for-life judges Pumpkins' administration has managed to seat...I'm starting to think it won't be until after my lifetime that the white, conservative minority will actually wield power commensurate with its position in the nation, as compared to now.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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State legislatures redraw the districts after a census. There is a census this year.

You don't need optimism; this year's election -will- determine voting districts. Any state legislature the Republicans lose this year is one they will be unlikely to ever win again in their current incarnation.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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We shall see. The last five years have convinced me that the GOP has an endless well of fuckery from which to draw actions and rhetoric that will keep them as the majority power (as in branches of government) for as long as possible.

ATM, I just don't have faith in things like a census and the expectation that Republicans will accept its results. Old rich white men ain't gonna go easily or quietly.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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This could go in the 2020 election thread but it's just as appropriate here...

You want some depressing scenarios to contemplate....

'Election Meltdown Is A Real Possibility' In 2020 Presidential Race, Author Warns

Quote:Looking ahead to Election Day, what if the loser of the presidential election doesn't concede? Can we still rely on the peaceful transition of power after hard fought but fair elections? What if Russia or another adversary hacks into an American city's electric grid on Election Day, preventing people from voting?

These are just some of the tough issues that my guest, Richard Hasen, addresses in his new book, "Election Meltdown: Dirty Tricks, Distrust, And The Threat To American Democracy." It's all about the stresses in our election system, from voting machines to voter suppression, attempts to politically game the system, domestic and foreign disinformation and hacking. Hasen is a professor of law and political science at the University of California, Irvine, and founder of the Election Law Blog. His previous book was titled "The Voting Wars."

Quote:GROSS: If Donald Trump is still in office and if he loses, are you concerned about him lying? For example, after the 2016 election, he said Hillary Clinton got 3 million fraudulent votes. There's no evidence at all that that happened. He could claim something like that again, but this time around, he'd be president but would have been voted out of office. So, like, what happens then?

HASEN:
Well, I think that this is one of the real nightmare scenarios, and that's because we've seen that Trump has managed to convince his supporters of things that are demonstrably untrue. Not only has he made false claims about voter fraud being rampant, he's also lied, for example, about what he told Lester Holt in an interview about why he fired James Comey.
He's lied about so many things, you know, that it wouldn't be surprising for him to lie about the results of the election. If the election is very close - if, for example, he's leading on election night in a key state, and the results end up being reversed as more votes are counted in the days passed, you could easily see him claiming victory and saying that he won the election and that any votes that came in afterwards were fraudulent votes. He made those kinds of claims in 2018 involving a close Senate race in Florida. So it's certainly possible.
I used to be with "it", but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't "it", and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.   -Grandpa Simpson
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Chief Justice Roberts just refused to read Rand Paul's question aloud because it directly named the alleged whistleblower:

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/ne...855062001/
"These guys are pros, Michael. They're gonna push the tension 'till the last possible moment before they strip."

 
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