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PARASITE (Bong Joon Ho)
The last time richy rich "smells" something bad and goes "ewwww" face made me laugh out loud despite the fact that everything happening was so deathly serious. The stakes are SO HIGH and he's got time to be like "ewwww poverty, gross!"
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THIS SMELL CROSSES THE LINE!!

I was so pleased by what happened to him
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I wanted to hate him but weird smells gross me out. A skewer in a guy's side would probably introduce some pretty bad smells. Respect.
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ohhhh phrenia...
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(02-05-2020, 12:46 PM)bailey Wrote: I wanted to hate him but weird smells gross me out. A skewer in a guy's side would probably introduce some pretty bad smells. Respect.

I mean, plus that guy didn't exactly have a shower and probably reeked.
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(02-05-2020, 11:58 AM)Nooj Wrote: oh jessica nice

DEADLY SERIOUS.
"Why did she do it?"
"Why are you the fucking Police?"

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That scene where he turns his nose up at the guy that lived in his walls is pretty funny. There seems to be a lot of projecting the scammer dad is doing, he just can't take it that this rich guy can't stand the smell of this guy that's done so much for him over the years. But rich guy didn't know there was some obsessive weirdo living in his walls that was turning lights on for him. To him he's just some random smelly guy that run into his backyard and started killing people.

It was also pretty funny when they revealed what all that guy in the wall did for them. Did they think they had some kind of automated house?
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I just realized that in a bunch of ways this is the movie I wanted Joker to be. A genuinely funny movie that features a kind of class structure exploration that feels a bit more targeted and deliberate. Unlike Joker which I saw as less profound.
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Saw this last night. I don't think I'm as head over heels as many seem to be. But it is really good and absurdly well put together. Tripping along at that pace would cause most filmmakers to fall flat on their face. The Hollywood version would be four hours and say everything at least twice as no other way to put across that much info would seem possible.

I still didn't quite feel the unravelling fit with the whole. I end up kind of going along with things in a fable sort of way rather than a solid cause and effect narrative (this happens with a few Korean films when I think about it. Park's revenge movies in particular. Dunno if Korean-ness has anything to do with it. It also might be the idea).

We didn't quite understand why Mr Park got stabbed. Was it just class resentment? It seemed like there was something going on there with the car keys as well, and then the smell thing was the last straw, but I think I missed it.

A dark and convoluted good time all the same.
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(02-09-2020, 06:09 AM)muzman Wrote: Saw this last night. I don't think I'm as head over heels as many seem to be.  But it is really good and absurdly well put together.  Tripping along at that pace would cause most filmmakers to fall flat on their face.  The Hollywood version would be four hours and say everything at least twice as no other way to put across that much info would seem possible.

I still didn't quite feel the unravelling fit with the whole.  I end up kind of going along with things in a fable sort of way rather than a solid cause and effect narrative

I think this comes from the conditioning of Hollywood films where the plots unfold in ways that seem mechanical rather than organic. It's weird, because I had a similar reaction on first viewing, but it doesn't make sense to expect an inherently chaotic situation to play out in any particular way. In any case, the movie feels even tighter on second viewing, and the events definitely work on a thematic level. I wouldn't say "Of course he stabbed Mr. Park (Respect)!" because obviously he didn't deserve that fate. But on another level Kim snapping there, in that way, makes a tragic kind of sense. I think it plays as an "oh, shit" moment, rather than the moment everything was building towards.
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It’s because the guy kept reminding Song Kang Ho to not cross the line. And that stung more than ever after overhearing the guy talk about his smell the previous night.

Then the flood. Losing what little they had. Sleeping in the gym. Fighting for dry clothes. Overhearing the rich wife talk about what a blessing the deluge was while she dragged him around shopping for her impromptu party for her son.

Knowing that the poorer family below also went into debt trying to open a Taiwanese bakery shop, which was something that also happened to him...

And finally seeing the rich prick cringe at the stench and daintily cover his nose even in a moment of pure panic and chaos finally sent him over the edge. In terms of movie/fable morality, that prick absolutely deserved what he got (RESPECT!!!).

The saddest thing is that he lives in that basement now weeping and apologizing to the guy by himself. He used to be the member of the family most optimistic about the rich. As if he could be one himself someday. Mr Park repeatedly disabused him of that notion.
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He absolutely did not deserve to get murdered, even in movie terms. I will never go with you on this murder haha.
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STABBY STABBY!

it's the one moment where one of the poor actually goes on the offensive against the rich and punches up... instead of against fellow poor people. Because the housekeeper, her husband, and Oh Jessica Nice didn't deserve to die either. Nobody deserved to die.

But for a fleeting moment, Mr Kim's eyes were open and he saw the fundamentally cruel cycle he's a part of. Because he doesn’t stab the guy in a fit of screaming payback the way the stinky-baby-man does. He does it with the coldest expression, almost as if he’s been imbued with a sudden righteous purpose (which is why it’s so tragic that he seems to have snapped out of it by the end, weeping apologetically to Mr Park for what he did.

On the movie's own terms, it's the cost of this stratified system finally being directly paid by someone up top for once. Nice guy that doesn’t deserve it? Doesn’t matter. Nobody below him deserved to die either, but for some reason we’re not jokingly arguing about how they didn’t deserve it.

The only cost before was the rich little boy going into shock/seizure from accidentally seeing the guy downstairs one night.
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And the cost of the food.
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the best food!
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Stabbing was too good for him. He should have been dragged to hell by the Lamia. The real underclass.
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arjen gets it
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I wonder what he did for a living. Did they ever mention?
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Who?

The rich guy? He worked for a VR company, I think.
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Oculus?!

Can he hook a brother up with one??
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He got rich working in tech that’s all about creating fake worlds
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Nooj laid it all out in a more nuanced way. Respect.

Though, I would add we're not talking about whether or not Ki-jung, Moon-gwang, or Geun-se deserved to die because of course they didn't. Mr. Park is the guy I feel least sorry for. But it's true, them being set upon one another fits in an 11 0'clock newsworthy narrative sort of a way. The poor kill each other. But when one rich guy dies everybody freaks out (respect, Joker.)
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I didn’t love this the way most everyone else seems to, but I found it very captivating purely for the ridiculous unpredictability of the plotting.

I can't spend a lot of time attempting to unpack it (and I don't really want to do that, anyway, because I'm reasonably sure I don't get it!), but it’s certainly audacious, ambitious, and admirably weird. It’s a textbook example (in a good way) of “you have no idea where it’s going,” because the turns this story makes are brazenly off-kilter and surprising. This is one of those films that, on the surface, is very funny (I certainly found it to be, anyway), but -- when you really look at what’s happening -- it’s kind of horrifying. Or at least it would be if I didn't think it was all incredibly goofy!

I'm not a particularly big fan of the director, but this is easily the film of his that I enjoyed the most as an experience.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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I don't care about the Oscars but damn if I'm still not buzzing from last night.

Parasite was easily the best movie I saw last year (and I really, really loved The Irishman) and is probably one of my Top 5 films of the past decade along with Burning, Once Upon a Time in Anatolia, Silence, and First Reformed.

I got into "international film" in my teenage years. I grew up in the country and shared that passion with literally no one around me. Even when I went to college or started living in the city, friends and coworkers only wanted to talk about Hollywood or English-language movies with me, when in reality that's maybe just over half of what I watch and less than half of my top hundred movies list.

Last night I felt so happy for Bong, you could tell the moment surprised him and probably meant more to him than he thought it would. I felt happy for the entire cast and crew of that movie, which was a masterclass in almost any area you could care to think of. I felt happy for international film finally being recognized with the biggest award on the most televised stage in film awards. For all the Korean film lovers who FINALLY get to have one of their own not just win an Academy award for the first time, but really take the night with the awards it did win and against some good competition in some of the categories. Most of all, I feel hopeful that there will be some young American kids like I once was, intrigued, checking out Parasite, and then Bong Joon Ho's other movies, and then other South Korean movies and the movies Bong Joon Ho loves, and then so many films from other countries, and on and on...

Leaping right over that one-inch wall of the subtitle barrier.
the empire never ended
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All this chat is great. And lets take a moment to congradulate Nooj on joining the SR Combat Organisation. May any uprising you spark be forever known as the Joon Days!
Leftist Dad Jokes. That's why I'm here.

(02-09-2020, 06:30 AM)bailey Wrote: I think this comes from the conditioning of Hollywood films where the plots unfold in ways that seem mechanical rather than organic. It's weird, because I had a similar reaction on first viewing, but it doesn't make sense to expect an inherently chaotic situation to play out in any particular way. In any case, the movie feels even tighter on second viewing, and the events definitely work on a thematic level. I wouldn't say "Of course he stabbed Mr. Park (Respect)!" because obviously he didn't deserve that fate. But on another level Kim snapping there, in that way, makes a tragic kind of sense. I think it plays as an "oh, shit" moment, rather than the moment everything was building towards.

(02-09-2020, 06:56 AM)Nooj Wrote: It’s because the guy kept reminding Song Kang Ho to not cross the line. And that stung more than ever after overhearing the guy talk about his smell the previous night.

Then the flood. Losing what little they had. Sleeping in the gym. Fighting for dry clothes. Overhearing the rich wife talk about what a blessing the deluge was while she dragged him around shopping for her impromptu party for her son.
...

My expectations would have something to do with it. I'm not sure its the mechanical nature of mainstream plotting exactly, but maybe something more subtle.
As quoted, there is a very nice buildup of emotional distress that would everyone at the end of their tether. I think it's just that I still didn't get an impression from the acting that Dad had it in him or would go that way, even under such conditions.
Perhaps its there and I missed it. Something in being trapped under the table and his repeated weird testing of the boss's love for his wife, which did seem unnecessarily provocative.

I'm still not sure what throwing the keys was all about. Something happened there as well and I didn't get it, or that's what it seemed like.

I will have to watch it again. Your attention is divided with subtitling, the first viewing especially. And I was slightly impared as well, straining to keep a persistent cough quiet for the duration by guzzling water like a demented goldfish. One toilet visit was sadly inevitable.

Listening to other opinions on this (here and elsewhere) it seems the stabbing is not being looked at as revenge exactly, or even personally directed anger, but arising from a desire for cosmic justice. I was trying to think of another example of this and remembered 3:10 to Yuma as the closest one I could come up with. If you remember how that ends (spoilers); the hero is trying to get the reward for handing in the villain, but is finally killed by the guy's henchmen who have been trying to rescue their boss the whole film and now its all over. An ordinary man struggled and failed. The villain has come to respect his captor, however, so to correct the Ending the way he thinks it should have gone, he shoots all his own men, handcuffs himself and puts himself on the train.
That's a much more... comprehensive example. But the idea that Dad stabs Mr Park in the moment because that guy shouldn't be getting through this situation unscathed while his daughter bleeds to death strikes me as interesting now.
Maybe I'm overdoing it there. I dunno.

What do people make of the son, having gone through prison, essentially returning to "normal" aspirational civics: planning to go to school and do the right thing then buy his dad's exile/prison (which seems intended to be read as either taking way too long or being impossible)? Seems like a typical bittersweet ending, which would be bad enough, but is extremely dark when you think about it.
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This is my favourite photo of 2020 so far . . . 

[Image: ajlef999ehe41.jpg]
Not a hard man to track. Leaves dead men wherever he goes.
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https://twitter.com/MillerStream/status/...80289?s=20

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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(02-10-2020, 05:15 PM)muzman Wrote: As quoted, there is a very nice buildup of emotional distress that would everyone at the end of their tether.  I think it's just that I still didn't get an impression from the acting that Dad had it in him or would go that way, even under such conditions.
Perhaps its there and I missed it.  Something in being trapped under the table and his repeated weird testing of the boss's love for his wife, which did seem unnecessarily provocative.

I'm still not sure what throwing the keys was all about.  Something happened there as well and I didn't get it, or that's what it seemed like.

What do people make of the son, having gone through prison, essentially returning to "normal" aspirational civics: planning to go to school and do the right thing then buy his dad's exile/prison (which seems intended to be read as either taking way too long or being impossible)?  Seems like a typical bittersweet ending, which would be bad enough, but is extremely dark when you think about it.

What I loved about Song Kang Ho's performance is that he initially comes across as a bit of a Homer-like doofus in the beginning.  But in that beginning with the pizza boxes (where they're retching from the fumigation), you see the movie push in on a close-up of him as he hyper-intently tries to fold box after box like the woman in the video.  It turns out he's no good at it, but for me it planted a seed of there being more to the guy.  There is an ambition in him under the aloofness.

Then we see a spark of darkness when he pretends to go for a swing at his wife.  She laughs in his face after a moment, but the kids were concerned for a sec.

Then we get his "no plan" monologue to his son as they sleep in the dark gymnasium after the flood.  There's a newfound nihilism in him as his children suddenly turn to him for "a plan".  All of that added up to the STABBY STABBY making dramatic sense to me.

In terms of the epilogue with the son.... I definitely took it as extremely dark from the get-go.  Because for all his efforts to help his family rise above the sub-basement, he ended up with a lobotomy that makes it impossible for him to grieve for his sister (doing JOKER better than JOKER).  He finds all the commotion over recent events chuckleworthy.

"IT'S BLIIIIIIISSSSSSSS!!"

[Image: 07wmb8hhf8qz.jpg]

But instead of finding the state of the world a joke, he doubles down and believes he can study and work hard to buy that house to free his father.  He buys into the pipe-dream of merit.  And for me, it was immediately apparent that it was a fantasy.  I was reminded of the epilogue to Spike Lee's (who handed BJH the Best Director Oscar!) THE 25th HOUR, which also ends with an idealized vision of the future... only to end with a return to the cold reality of the present.

https://www.vulture.com/2020/01/parasite...on-ho.html

Quote:Parasite’s penultimate shot is swathed in fantasy: father and son hugging on the bright, green lawn of the Park house that is now rightfully theirs. Bong could have ended the film on that note of dreamlike ambiguity, but instead he returns to the half-basement where the movie started, descending from the cramped window space down to Ki-woo writing the letter to his father. There is no mistaking what the reality is. His desire to continue striving is Sisyphean and is the boulder that will eventually crush him. Hope is the emotional parasite in the film: the thing that keeps us going but sucks our marrow dry.

It’s a surefire kill,” Bong tells me about the final shot. During our few days together in Los Angeles, we discussed the many filmmaking choices he made for Parasite, including the ending. He’s using a Korean phrase (확인사살 - "confirmed kill") that essentially describes the final gunshot you take to make sure someone is good and dead. Imagine an action flick where a trained soldier shoots down an enemy and then walks up to their body and shoots them once more in the head. That’s the surefire kill. The ultimate insurance. And that’s what he wanted the ending to do.

“Maybe if the movie ended where they hug and fades out, the audience can imagine, ‘Oh, it’s impossible to buy that house,’ but the camera goes down to that half-basement,” he says. “It’s quite cruel and sad, but I thought it was being real and honest with the audience. You know and I know — we all know that this kid isn’t going to be able to buy that house. I just felt that frankness was right for the film, even though it’s sad.”

“There are people who are fighting hard to change society. I like those people, and I’m always rooting for them, but making the audience feel something naked and raw is one of the greatest powers of cinema,” he says. “I’m not making a documentary or propaganda here. It’s not about telling you how to change the world or how you should act because something is bad, but rather showing you the terrible, explosive weight of reality. That’s what I believe is the beauty of cinema.”

And then all you gotta do is look at the comments below to see the whining:


Quote:I agree, I don't like the negative ending according to the director. I wish he just didn't reveal it and left the answer and film on a positive note or open-ended and up to the audience to interpret it, like they did in Joker, another recent explosive film. It makes the film more dull. In movies, if endings are not positive or else ridiculous tragic, it makes the film more dull in my opinion.

As a Korea-American, I ask, was it supposed to illustrate a very pessimistic aspect of Korean mind-set or something? I think it is possible we have such mind-set considering how much suffering we underwent throughout our history. Therefore, IF ANYTHING, I think this ending reflects more negatively than positively on Korean culture. The director believes 'we all know he can't buy that house.' Maybe Korean audience but western audiences are way more positive than that.
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Just saw this, it was very good. Still processing it.
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Quote:I agree, I don't like the negative ending according to the director. I wish he just didn't reveal it and left the answer and film on a positive note or open-ended and up to the audience to interpret it, like they did in Joker, another recent explosive film. It makes the film more dull. In movies, if endings are not positive or else ridiculous tragic, it makes the film more dull in my opinion.

The funny thing is, even if he could break free from his circumstance and buy the house, it doesn't change anything.  What is  hopeful about one person, or even a tiny percentage of people living out that dream while the vast majority suffer? There's no ambiguity. If this is the system, the majority of people are fucked.
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why can't it be more like recent explosive film JOKER???
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Well, now that you mention it, I guess I should explain my theory about how this is an origin story of Ki-woo as the Joker, and Da-song as the goddamn Batman.
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(02-10-2020, 11:46 PM)Nooj Wrote: Then we get his "no plan" monologue to his son as they sleep in the dark gymnasium after the flood.  There's a newfound nihilism in him as his children suddenly turn to him for "a plan".  All of that added up to the STABBY STABBY making dramatic sense to me.

In terms of the epilogue with the son.... I definitely took it as extremely dark from the get-go.  Because for all his efforts to help his family rise above the sub-basement, he ended up with a lobotomy that makes it impossible for him to grieve for his sister (doing JOKER better than JOKER).  He finds all the commotion over recent events chuckleworthy.

"IT'S BLIIIIIIISSSSSSSS!!"

Yes to all this. It wasn't that I ever thought his dream was realistic. It was more thinking about how he must have got this dream. He has been 'reformed', reeducated. And then resolving to struggle good naturedly as his Dad had done, permanently. It just gets worse the more you think about it.

Those reactions are pretty hilarious. After all that has happened in that film people are like "don't take the dream away from me". I would say that's a very American thing, not Western. Positivity, individual aspiration, "hard work" bootstrapping etc I would wager there was virtually no one in the Australian audience who thought the message there was that Ki-woo had anything but a snowball's chance in hell of achieving this.
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(02-11-2020, 04:36 AM)muzman Wrote:
(02-10-2020, 11:46 PM)Nooj Wrote: Then we get his "no plan" monologue to his son as they sleep in the dark gymnasium after the flood.  There's a newfound nihilism in him as his children suddenly turn to him for "a plan".  All of that added up to the STABBY STABBY making dramatic sense to me.

In terms of the epilogue with the son.... I definitely took it as extremely dark from the get-go.  Because for all his efforts to help his family rise above the sub-basement, he ended up with a lobotomy that makes it impossible for him to grieve for his sister (doing JOKER better than JOKER).  He finds all the commotion over recent events chuckleworthy.

"IT'S BLIIIIIIISSSSSSSS!!"

Yes to all this.  It wasn't that I ever thought his dream was realistic.  It was more thinking about how he must have got this dream.  He has been 'reformed', reeducated.  And then resolving to struggle good naturedly as his Dad had done, permanently.  It just gets worse the more you think about it.

Those reactions are pretty hilarious.  After all that has happened in that film people are like "don't take the dream away from me".  I would say that's a very American thing, not Western. Positivity, individual aspiration, "hard work" bootstrapping etc I would wager there was virtually no one in the Australian audience who thought the message there was that Ki-woo had anything but a snowball's chance in hell of achieving this.

I dunno. Considering the amount of immigrants who come into America because they believe the idea of upward mobility, I think the "American Dream" is very much a global phenomenon.
"Why did she do it?"
"Why are you the fucking Police?"

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It's too bad THE HOST didn't catch fire way back in 2006 as well.  I would've loved to have seen a Reddit AMA from that bro who played the US military doctor.
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