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INDIANA JONES and you're actually fucking serious pre-release discussion
And it still never got a Blu-ray, for cripes sake.
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(02-25-2020, 02:56 PM)arjen rudd Wrote: Young Sherlock Holmes is under appreciated. Can you imagine a movie that weird getting made now?

On Netflix, yes.



(02-25-2020, 01:24 PM)Belloq87 Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 12:33 PM)hammerhead Wrote: I'm still of the opinion that there's Raiders, and everything else is optional.

I mean, RAIDERS is one of the greatest movies of all time.  In comparison, TEMPLE and CRUSADE are just some of the greatest adventure flicks of all time.  

All three are among the greatest films of all time. 

Raiders is just the only one that's in the running for greatest of all time.

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(02-25-2020, 03:11 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 01:24 PM)Belloq87 Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 12:33 PM)hammerhead Wrote: I'm still of the opinion that there's Raiders, and everything else is optional.

I mean, RAIDERS is one of the greatest movies of all time.  In comparison, TEMPLE and CRUSADE are just some of the greatest adventure flicks of all time.  

All three are among the greatest films of all time. 

Raiders is just the only one that's in the running for greatest of all time.

[Image: giphy.gif]

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(02-25-2020, 12:33 PM)hammerhead Wrote: I'm still of the opinion that there's Raiders, and everything else is optional.

I'm the same way.

I can see someone enjoying 2 & 3, but for me Doom is almost unwatchable because I can sense the bitterness, even in the excess. It's a confused movie. Stuck somewhere between darker and more cynical, and more of a goofy lark.

Last Crusade is like watered down Indy. Everything is bigger and/or dumber. Great supporting characters from the first film turned into buffoonish comic relief. For me worth it only for interplay the Ford and Connery, but I get why many find it fun.
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Much as I like/love TEMPLE and CRUSADE, not sure they'd be in my running for the list of greatest films of all time. If so, they'd be in the lower part of the list.

RAIDERS, of course, is most certainly in the running for greatest film of all time.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Temple of Doom has a GREAT Harrison Ford performance. It's a darker adventure, but sometimes you want that.

I agree that TLC goes the other way...like playing an adventure on Easy Mode. But I enjoy the setpieces, and getting Connery involved was a stroke of genius.
I'm not Avery.
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Oh please. In Crusade, Indy’s still killing Nazis left and right, angrily confronting Elsa when she’s betrayed him and the whole climax is as emotional as anything in Raiders in that Indy needs to save his father from dying.

And I get really tired of hearing this “Crusade ruined Sallah and Brody” nonsense. Sallah has his comical parts in Raiders (“I am the monarch of the sea” or the part where he screams when the Well of Souls is opened). He’s the same here only he gets to be part of the action. Marcus, ok he has some more comical moments, but we barely saw him in Raiders and actor Denholm Eliot loved playing his funny side. If he was cool with it, who cares? Even then he still gets in some badass bits: telling Donovan he’s meddling with powers he can’t comprehend and helping Indy fight the Nazis aboard the tank.
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"I am the monarch of the sea" is a wonderful/memorable moment specifically because it is unique, unexpected, and feels rooted in the character more than designed to get yuks from the audience.
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Indy hyping up Brody as the baddest of bad asses followed by the truth remains one of the all-time great CUT TO gags. That never fails to make me laugh out loud.

The real ending to Big...
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Those Sallah bits mostly remind me of Sideshow Bob now.
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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(02-25-2020, 03:22 PM)bailey Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 12:33 PM)hammerhead Wrote: I'm still of the opinion that there's Raiders, and everything else is optional.

... Doom is almost unwatchable because I can sense the bitterness, even in the excess ...

The bitterness is one of the greatest things about Doom.  It particularly works for Indy once you remember that Doom is a prequel.

Quote:Last Crusade is like watered down Indy. 

The film in which Indy, during the opening scenes, tries to steal back an artifact from its lawful owner (resulting in the fiery depths of a whole bunch of sailors), has Indy machine gunning or brutally killing endless Nazis when he isn't reacting with glee at causing a horrendous motorcycle accident, features Elsa's utterly grim death, and gives us the interplay of Indiana with his father is "watered down Indy?"

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"Donations from some of Germany's finest families."

Yeah, Crusade is really fucking light.
home taping is killing music
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I LOVE TEMPLE!!
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Quote: bitterness is one of the greatest things about Doom.


No, it really isn't.  It's unpleasant and confused.  The movie is both darker and more depressed yet also more ridiculous than the original, and I find that a discordant mixture. Plus the misogyny is palpable.  If it doesn't bother you, good for you.


Quote:The film in which Indy, during the opening scenes, tries to steal back an artifact from its lawful owner (resulting in the fiery depths of a whole bunch of sailors), has Indy machine gunning or brutally killing endless Nazis when he isn't reacting with glee at causing a horrendous motorcycle accident, features Elsa's utterly grim death, and gives us the interplay of Indiana with his father is "watered down Indy?"

I didn't say it was sanitized Indy.  I said it was watered-down. Not as potent.  A world and characters I don't believe as much.  Raiders is based on serials, so sequels were a natural consequence of its success. But it has a wholly unique feeling that the follow-ups never matched.
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(02-25-2020, 04:55 PM)Nooj Wrote: I LOVE TEMPLE!!



"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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To each their own.

No it's not RAIDERS. But it never could be and Spielberg was wise enough to know that upfront. He instead focused on making TEMPLE OF DOOM into a literal rollercoaster ride by throwing set-pieces like crazy seemingly every 15 minutes or so. And I love its nastiness.

The real ending to Big...
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I don't find any ranking of the original trilogy particularly provocative, but I just cannot get into the heads of people who say "Yeah, CRYSTAL SKULL isn't great, but at least it's better than TEMPLE."  The rope bridge scene alone puts TEMPLE at least eight solar systems away from SKULL's grasp.

That's not calling out Boone specifically -- I've seen this sentiment expressed with some regularity.  And I get just as baffled each time.
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Temple of Doom feels like 1941 is still in Spielberg's system, even though Raiders is in between them. Too much, too loud, too mean, not funny, no story and it all comes at you at once.
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(02-25-2020, 05:03 PM)fatherdude Wrote: I don't find any ranking of the original trilogy particularly provocative, but I justcannotget into the heads of people who say "Yeah, CRYSTAL SKULL isn't great, but at least it's better than TEMPLE." The rope bridge scene alone puts TEMPLE at least eight solar systems away from SKULL's grasp.

That's not calling out Boone specifically-- I've seen this sentiment expressed with some regularity. And I get just as baffled each time.
Wait, was anyone saying that? I'll gladly bag on TEMPLE for its issues, but that's just crazy talk.
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(02-25-2020, 05:03 PM)filmnerdjamie Wrote: No it's not RAIDERS. But it never could be and Spielberg was wise enough to know that upfront. He instead focused on making TEMPLE OF DOOM into a literal rollercoaster ride by throwing set-pieces like crazy seemingly every 15 minutes or so. And I love its nastiness.

The scene where Indy and Shorty are being whipped into submission before Indy is forced to drink the blood is one of the bleakest moments in Spielberg's blockbuster canon. And it's great! Makes the eventual triumph all the more rousing.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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(02-25-2020, 05:07 PM)commodorejohn Wrote:
(02-25-2020, 05:03 PM)fatherdude Wrote: I don't find any ranking of the original trilogy particularly provocative, but I justcannotget into the heads of people who say "Yeah, CRYSTAL SKULL isn't great, but at least it's better than TEMPLE." The rope bridge scene alone puts TEMPLE at least eight solar systems away from SKULL's grasp.

That's not calling out Boone specifically-- I've seen this sentiment expressed with some regularity. And I get just as baffled each time.
Wait, was anyone saying that? I'll gladly bag on TEMPLE for its issues, but that's just crazy talk.

I mean, I don't even count Crystal Skull.
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Temple of Doom is by any metric a superior technical achievement and the objectively better film.

I don't like it very much.

Crystal Skull is objectively a mess from top to finish, start to bottom.

But there are parts of it that I like.

Therefore, I think I like Crystal Skull a little more than Temple, but it's close.
home taping is killing music
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And TEMPLE OF DOOM has probably my favorite shot of Indiana Jones in any of the films...
[Image: giphy.gif]
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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(02-25-2020, 04:55 PM)Nooj Wrote: I LOVE TEMPLE!!

I love TEMPLE too! It's probably my favorite of the Indy movies, while I acknowledge RAIDERS being technically the best of the series. I think the two are the best in that they both recapture the serials with the cliffhanger moments. In CRUSADE and CRYSTAL SKULL it's just not as prominent.
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And how many money shots does CRYSTAL SKULL have? Indy and the mushroom cloud is legit, but it is a mark of demerit that the most striking image is at least fifty percent CGI.

In my book TEMPLE has like five set pieces I would consider in competition to be series best (Shanghai escape, spike room, rock crusher, mine cart, rope bridge), and CRYSTAL SKULL zero.  And this is coming from a proponent of the Doomtown scene, who says that yes, CGI face swaps aside, the campus chase is nicely executed and convincingly throwback.

I mean, the verdict is clear three seconds into the most superficial of comparisons.  You don't even need to get into plot.
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What’s the best overall? Jeep chase? Rope bridge? I think tank fight is in contention.
Brigadier Cousins on PSN
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They're definitely three different attitudes of Indy films. Raiders the all-time classic of course. I really enjoy Temple, but admittedly have not actually watched it in a long time. Crusade seems more accessible, a bit more fun and with Sean Connery hi jinks to smooth things over.
There are weapons in my hands, my hands are weapons.
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I like how I stated unequivocally that I acknowledge Temple's technical and cinematic superiority on an objective level, and almost immediately the responses were "yes, but Temple is better and here's why."

Sometimes I think the biggest issue with this place across all forums is the tendency to skim a post and assume you know what it says, rather than reading the actual text. I do it too.
home taping is killing music
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We're just expressing our love for TEMPLE, that's all it is Boone.
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(02-25-2020, 05:20 PM)arjen rudd Wrote: What’s the best overall? Jeep chase? Rope bridge? I think tank fight is in contention.

The desert truck chase in RAIDERS is the best setpiece in the series, I think. One of the best ever, really.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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As we express our love for Temple, it is important to not skim Bailey's post(s) so we can fully appreciate just how wrong he is.

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I also don't count CRYSTAL. It basically doesn't exist for me.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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(02-25-2020, 05:43 PM)Overlord Wrote: As we express our love for Temple, it is important to not skim Bailey's post(s) so we can fully appreciate just how wrong he is.

 I get that you're doing your Overlord shtick, but like the Indy sequels much of the time it doesn't work.
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(02-25-2020, 05:55 PM)MichaelM Wrote: I also don't count CRYSTAL. It basically doesn't exist for me.

I'm going to try pretty hard this week to find a fan-edit version that makes the film watchable.  I'm not looking for good, just watchable.

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(02-25-2020, 03:44 PM)bailey Wrote: "I am the monarch of the sea" is a wonderful/memorable moment specifically because it is unique, unexpected, and feels rooted in the character more than designed to get yuks from the audience.

I’d say it’s also meant to be funny since he comically kisses a random dude as he walks away from the pier. His scenes in Crusade aren’t much different.

Maybe it’s just me, but if you’re bringing back old characters and putting them in new scenarios then have some fun with them. Do all franchise sequels need to be grim and gritty to be enjoyable?

Also, you don’t find the world of this film to be as believable even though the whole emotional father-son relationship is the main story focus? LOLZ
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