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The Re-up Thread
The only superhero movie that compares to Donner's film is Raimi's SPIDER-MAN.

"Got concrete rhymes, been rappin' for ten years and

Even when I'm braggin', I'm bein' sincere"



"Teenage angst has paid off well/ Now I'm bored and old"


"Drunk as hell, but no throwin' up

Half way home and my pager still blowin' up"


"I'm tired of living all alone
yeah, nobody ever calls me on the phone
But when things start getting bad
I just play my music louder"





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Belloq's Superhero Movie Top 5

1. SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE
2. THE DARK KNIGHT
3. SPIDER-MAN 2
4. THE AVENGERS
5. BATMAN BEGINS
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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A man of taste and distinction.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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(02-24-2020, 12:55 PM)Fat Elvis Wrote: The only superhero movie that compares to Donner's film is Raimi's SPIDER-MAN.

I can agree with that even though I think 2 is the better flick.
If I could change to liquid, I'd fill the cracks and bend the rocks.
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X-Men part anything is better than Donner's Superman? What the hell is happening in here? I expected more from all of you, especially you, MM. Wait for it...


DAMN IT, MICHAEL!


There's just a beautiful feeling of nostalgia goosebumps I get whenever I happen to catch Supes. I enjoy the heck out of most of (ok, maybe half of) the X-Men franchise, particularly the first two, but there's no scale of grandness I associate it with, which is ever-present in Donner's Superman.

I'm thinking that it may be because I have extremely fond memories of seeing Supes in its original theatrical run as a little kid, and many of you did not. Which makes me even mooooore disappointed in Michael, as he's older than me.
If you're happy, you're not paying attention.

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny: 
Glad that you guys worked that out amongst yourselves.

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I saw SUPERMAN during its initial theatrical run, whippersnapper!

Look, I love elements of the movie. I have a great deal of sentimental attachment to it. But watching it sometime in the last several years forced me to concede that it's janky AF and has some serious tonal and consistency issues. I also think without Williams' score, our memories of the movie wouldn't be quite so fond.

And I'm hearted to know I'm not alone in this view.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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No. You're wrong.

[edit]

Also, I haven't seen it in likely 25 years, so I'll hold to the fact that you're wrong and never re-watch so as to admit that I'm wrong. I win!
If you're happy, you're not paying attention.

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny: 
Glad that you guys worked that out amongst yourselves.

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Also: SUPERMAN II, either version, isn't very good.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Superman aged like milk deal with it boomers
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I love being called a Boomer at age 32!
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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OK, millenial!
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Superman was the first real superhero movie success, right? So there's going to be some baked-in love for it simply by virtue of it not being a complete dud. But comparing apples to apples across the decades, I don't even think Margot Kidder and Christopher Reeve had as much on-screen chemistry as Kate Bosworth and Brandon Routh (and they didn't have a ton!). I'm not saying Superman Returns is objectively a better movie, just that the original just doesn't hold up.

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I think the interplay between Reeve and Kidder in the interview scene is off-the-charts charming, but that's just me!
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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I kinda can't stand Kidder in the movie.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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(02-24-2020, 03:51 PM)Belloq87 Wrote: I think the interplay between Reeve and Kidder in the interview scene is off-the-charts charming, but that's just me!

Agreed, which is why I can't figure out why is seems absent in nearly every other scene.  Is it the writing?  Did they get to ad lib some in the interview maybe?

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(02-24-2020, 02:38 PM)turingmachine75 Wrote:
(02-24-2020, 12:55 PM)Fat Elvis Wrote: The only superhero movie that compares to Donner's film is Raimi's SPIDER-MAN.

I can agree with that even though I think 2 is the better flick.

Oh yeah, for sure, but the first one has the Donner SUPERMAN feel.

There is another that hits that tone: THE ROCKETEER

"Got concrete rhymes, been rappin' for ten years and

Even when I'm braggin', I'm bein' sincere"



"Teenage angst has paid off well/ Now I'm bored and old"


"Drunk as hell, but no throwin' up

Half way home and my pager still blowin' up"


"I'm tired of living all alone
yeah, nobody ever calls me on the phone
But when things start getting bad
I just play my music louder"





Reply
(02-24-2020, 03:57 PM)sean blackwell Wrote: Agreed, which is why I can't figure out why is seems absent in nearly every other scene. Is it the writing? Did they get to ad lib some in the interview maybe?

I mean, it's really the only lengthy scene between Lois and Superman; the rest are with Lois and Clark, which both performers are playing entirely differently.
If we can dream it, then we can do it.
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I love Kidder as Lois Lane so much. Just watch the other screentests with Reeve and you'll immediately see why she's perfect. She's got a grit, cynicism, but also this goofball charm. She's the Hepburn to Reeve's Cary Grant.

And the subtext behind people saying they don't like her always seemed to me like she wasn't "hot enough".
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(02-24-2020, 04:13 PM)atomtastic Wrote: And the subtext behind people saying they don't like her always seemed to me like she wasn't "hot enough".

That's definitely not why I'm not sold.  I see them going for that 50s screwball comedy style of interaction, but it just doesn't work for me.  I'm glad it does for you, though.

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Nope. I just find her voice and persona (as Lois) grating and not the least bit charming or compelling to follow.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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I think all the screentests are better than Kidder. Stockard Channing in particular.
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(02-24-2020, 07:15 AM)arjen rudd Wrote: I get that’s the aesthetic they’re going for, but I find my mind wandering pretty quick during it. I also really dislike the Saturday Morning Cartoon vibe of the non-Reeve performers. I don’t remotely understand the fans of Margot Kidder’s performance (Teri Hatcher, forever), and Hackman is delivering a character would have fit right in on Rescue Rangers.

Hackman actually does bring some genuine menace to the scene where Luthor reveals his plans to Supes and breaks out the kryptonite. I just wish he, and the script, had leaned more in that direction for the rest of the movie.
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I think Hackman's most menacing is when Teschmacher tells Lex her mother lives in Hackensack. Lex looks at his watch and calmly shakes his head.
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Of the also-ran Loises (Loii?), Anne Archer was probably the best. Channing is a kick in her test, but the energy is out of balance-- she totally blows Reeve off the screen.

And yes, watch those tests of the interview scene. Not only is Kidder miles more sincere and natural, she's using the exact same dialogue-- no ad-libbing.
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Hackman in that film is doing exactly what the script asks of him: be a big ol' Silver Age-style supervillain. When it's time to be menacing, he's menacing. When it's time to be silly, he's silly. The balance is in favor of the latter, but when the former comes around, it's effective. The "This old... diseased maniac" speech is pretty darn fun.

And at least due respect is being given to the Williams score. Even beyond the main theme, the music during the "You will travel far, my little Kal-El" and the birth of the Fortress of Solitude are two of his all-time best tracks.
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The ridiculousness of the missile stealing scene is a bridge too far for my grumpy, tedious old ass.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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It's very 70s, very Mankiewicz. Hackman's performance is perfectly in line with any of the Moore Bond villains.

If that works for you is another story though!
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Plus the ending is complete nonsense. And I don't mean him flying so fast that he travels backward in time. I can buy that.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
Reply
SUPERMAN is one of the great examples of cinema at its most magical.

The real ending to Big...
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I don’t think it aged well. You put a kid down in front of it, I think most of the time they’re gonna get bored.
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Mine did.
If I could change to liquid, I'd fill the cracks and bend the rocks.
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Kids today like THE AVENGERS and all that shit, why would that even be a measure of quality? If some snot-nosed brat doesn't appreciate THE DIRTY DOZEN I wouldn't hold it against that film either.

The rhythm and language of cinema is constantly changing, but it's not an old film's fault if the viewer is illiterate. You have to nurture children - expose them to cinema of all eras - for them to get it.

It's like if you randomly put on some early Beatles for a 12 year old who only knows the music of today do you think he's gonna instantly start dancing to "I Wanna Hold Your Hand"?

"Got concrete rhymes, been rappin' for ten years and

Even when I'm braggin', I'm bein' sincere"



"Teenage angst has paid off well/ Now I'm bored and old"


"Drunk as hell, but no throwin' up

Half way home and my pager still blowin' up"


"I'm tired of living all alone
yeah, nobody ever calls me on the phone
But when things start getting bad
I just play my music louder"





Reply
(02-25-2020, 05:22 PM)arjen rudd Wrote: I don’t think it aged well. You put a kid down in front of it, I think most of the time they’re gonna get bored.

Can confirm.  Both kids were utterly bored by Superman Prime.  Superman 2 at least my son was interested in.

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I'm a firm believer that the term 'hasn't aged well' is lazy bullshit criticism. Arjen knows I respect him, that this isn't aimed at him specifically, but cinema, like most art, is both its own thing and a snapshot of the times.

Again, if a modern audience is bored by CITIZEN KANE, or offended by DIRTY HARRY, that's their hang ups. It's not like great films suddenly or slowly slip into mediocrity.

This is very much the fault of programmers. Unlike my childhood, besides TCM, there isn't another network that shows film from before 30 years or so - with the rare exception of like A WONDERFUL LIFE or WIZARD OF OZ on the holidays. You could probably put JASON AND THE ARGONAUTS or KING KONG in front of these kids and they'd be longing for SONIC THE HEDGEHOG. That's a sad state of affairs.

"Got concrete rhymes, been rappin' for ten years and

Even when I'm braggin', I'm bein' sincere"



"Teenage angst has paid off well/ Now I'm bored and old"


"Drunk as hell, but no throwin' up

Half way home and my pager still blowin' up"


"I'm tired of living all alone
yeah, nobody ever calls me on the phone
But when things start getting bad
I just play my music louder"





Reply
I would also add how much I fucking despise the phrase "problematic" being used in a review especially for, yes, something from years ago.

The real ending to Big...
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