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The Wheel of Time
I believe it actually happens in the "beginning" of Book Eight...but by "beginning" I mean it takes at least 100 pages. Likely more.

Because you know we NEED more reminders of how angular Lan's face is, and endless new named Aes Sedai/Windfinder/Etc. characters.

I will say that Book Eight has some nice "fog of war" scenes with Asha'man. But again, don't expect anything resembling coherent/well described battle scenes with geography, movement, etc.


ETA: oh, and Mat is completely MIA in Book Eight, much in the way Perrin was in Book Five.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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To be fair, Lan's face is quite angular.

So, finishes up CoS. Sure as hell ended better than it began, and with the pieces on the board somewhat moved even! I think the final confrontation, while cool, was a little neat. I guess I understand why Jordan decided to go that route - Rand had spent, what? The last pages of nearly every single book going one-on-one with the Forsaken, but after building the villain up for...three books now? to have him go down that way was a little disappointing. However cool it was.

So, Mat's just...under a pile of rubble for all of book eight then? Fun.

I enjoy Jordan's writing. I do. He has some great passages, and while overdone, his descriptions are quite unique. He clearly loves the world - too much, if anything, because goddamn, the actual plot of this book can fit into a cliff notes. And you say it only gets more spinny? Great.

Also, that was Moridin at the end, right? Still haven't figured that guy out yet.

Blood and bloody ashes, what are the Seafolk and Seanchen even doing in this series? I feel like they're gonna get Dorned so, so, sooo hard in the series and honestly, I'm aight with that at the moment.

Definitely the weakest of the 7 I've read. Some moments (I like Elayne turning the tables, the encounter with the Gholam and Mat being used by a cougar but being all butthurt about it - well, at first, then I realized it's all that Mat's gonna be doing this go around) but overall, I can see it going off the rails.

And hey! Look! I'm...halfway...through...the series...

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What's kind of neat about the confrontation with Sammael is that Rand's been planning it for two books (there are overt if opaque references to it sprinkled throughout Lord of Chaos), and it's a pretty clever way of negating the Forsaken's expertise in using Saidin.

The structure of Rand facing down a Forsaken at the end of the book (and decisively winning) is done now. Books 8-11 are more...process oriented? Plus, as you're probably gathering, the Dark One is resurrecting the killed Forsaken (those not disintegrated by balefire, at least).

The Seanchan aren't Dorned. I can't say they're used to their full storytelling potential, but they're definitely not Dorned.

And yeah, that was Moridin at the end.

Gird your loins, doc, because you're about to enter the roughest stretch of the series.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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Begun walking the Path of Daggers have I.

Is that really the only thing that happens?

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I tend to get that stretch of books mixed up, plotwise, as I've only really read them fully once.

A lot happens without much really happening at all, if that makes sense.

Egwene's storyline becomes unbearable, IMNSHO, due to so much time spent on minutiae and machinations that either don't payoff or don't payoff in meaningful ways.

The same goes for Perrin and Faile. They're entering a long stretch of much plottiness without very little payoff.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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MichaelM continues to talk about a book series instead of actually, you know, reading and finishing the series.

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I'm so proud of him!
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I read Book Eight when it was originally published!

Book Nine, too.

I stopped doing full reads with Comas at Twilight.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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(03-09-2020, 03:55 PM)commodorejohn Wrote: I'm so proud of him!

I want you to know, commodore, that this fantastically clever little comment you just made was noticed and appreciated by yours truly. 

Well done.

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The Wheel of Time spins and pages come and pass, leaving momentum that becomes tedium. Story fades to plots, and even plots are forgotten when the person who wrote them loses himself in new characters...

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(03-09-2020, 04:02 PM)Overlord Wrote:
(03-09-2020, 03:55 PM)commodorejohn Wrote: I'm so proud of him!
I want you to know, commodore, that this fantastically clever little comment you just made was noticed and appreciated by yours truly.

Well done.
I feel so appreciated.
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There are no endings or beginnings to the Wheel of Time, but there are endless prologues that are some beginnings.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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(03-10-2020, 02:18 PM)MichaelM Wrote: There are no endings or beginnings to the Wheel of Time, but there are endless prologues that are some beginnings.

Are you saying that the wheel (in the sky) keeps on turnin'?
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Winternight is here oh Lord
Fades and a fist of trollocs or more
I hope Tam holds on a little longer

Trained with Lan on a hot summer day
Black wind made me say
Oooh the Ways are one scary dark road

Ooh, the wheel of time keeps on turnin'
Lanfear wants me to be her beau
Wheel of time keeps on turnin'
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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(03-10-2020, 02:31 PM)MichaelM Wrote: Winternight is here oh Lord
Fades and a fist of trollocs or more
I hope Tam holds on a little longer

Trained with Lan on a hot summer day
Black wind made me say
Oooh the Ways are one scary dark road

Ooh, the wheel of time keeps on turnin'
Lanfear wants me to be her beau
Wheel of time keeps on turnin'

[Image: concert-lighter-gif-8.gif]
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So endeth 'All I Do Is Win' Rand Al'Thor. Was wondering when he'd suffer a major defeat.

Did not entirely enjoy that entire section; so many points of view - from new characters at that, the fog of war (quite literally in the title) and a sense of...well, I'm not sure. I understand the Seanchen are a threat, but they feel like more of a distraction than anything. A way for Jordan to spin the wheel some more. But dragons - raken - are pretty cool.

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I do love that one mini-scene of Seanchan approaching a lone Asha'man and getting obliterated as the channeler cuts loose.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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Let us know when you start Gathering Storm.

I was very surprised how quickly my enthusiasm for the series returned.

**MichaelM would know this, if he hadn't quit.

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:: looks up online ::

Oh, it's the...12th book...

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(03-12-2020, 07:05 PM)doc happenin Wrote: :: looks up online ::

Oh, it's the...12th book...

Prepare yourself for some

[Image: 2q6p2t.jpg]

Before you get there. So much crossed arms underneath breasts action! So. Much.
Originally Posted by ImmortanNick 

Saw Batman v Superman.
Now I know what it's like to see Nickelback in concert.

That's my review.
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If I didn’t have a toddler to look after, I’d start some sort of drinking game while listening:

Someone sniffs - drink
Arms crossed under breast - drink
Description of clothes - drink until the paragraph ends
Extra shot for every ‘slashed’ or ‘divided’ skirt
Some Aiel custom- drink
Anyone says ‘Burn me’ ‘Boxed ears’ - drink
Anytime a new Aes Sedai is introduced - finish your drink

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Finished Path of Daggers. The ending threw a bunch of things that had the feel of 'huh. nothing much has happened, so let's throw this betrayal and why not toss the Shaido in for good measure!' to it. Glad the siege of Tar Valon is about to start, but light only knows how long that'll take and doubtless twenty new Aes Sedai will scuttle out of the woodwork, probably with very similar sounding names.

Missed Mat this time around. And what did Logaine do to those Tower Aes Sedai? Did he bond her or something? I know, I know, I'll figure it out in the end. Oh, compelled? Maybe?

Look, I know saving the world from the Dark One isn't easy and it takes alliances. But does it have to take this long to do it?

And I change my mind about Cadsuane: she's just there to gum up the works and overly complicate everything. I look forward to the...simplifying of plots, if not outright removal of some (many) characters and threads in the show during the later seasons.

Oomph. Okay, what's next...

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I fucking hate Cadsuane. Not just the character, but her place in the world. She's called legendary, nearly mythic, someone ALL Aes Sedai have heard of...

...and yet nary one mention of her for six entire books before that, with probably more than a million words written - and she's a complete surprise. It feels cheap and convenient. I was able to ask Jordan about her (whether she was planned or not from the beginning) and he claimed she was, but he was notorious for not admitting mistakes or poor choices.

And yeah, Logain (and other Asha'man) are bonding the captive Aes Sedai.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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    Oh What the effin eff, Jordan?

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Is that the prologue with the leaders from the Borderlands?

You're in the Slog now, doc. Good luck!
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
Reply
Oh yeah, was wondering what happened with them.

Wait. No. No, I wasn’t.

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Don't worry. You'll keep on (not) wondering for hundreds of more pages!
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
Reply
Rand at the Academy in the prologue got me all...
   

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Seriously, what is happening in Winter's Heart? Does it honestly take forever to rescue Faile? Or did we need all of that plotting just to get that Dark Friend as the Captain of Elayne's guard?

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We've now entered Skimmed Only territory for me (although I am pretty sure I actually read Winter's Heart....once, when it was published) so Overlord is gonna be your reliable guide here.

But I'll just give the caveat that I'm pretty sure Faile does not get rescued in Winter's Heart. Again, you've reached the Slog: endless content, very little payoff.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
Reply
(03-16-2020, 01:49 PM)doc happenin Wrote: Seriously, what is happening in Winter's Heart? Does it honestly take forever to rescue Faile? Or did we need all of that plotting just to get that Dark Friend as the Captain of Elayne's guard?

The Faile bondage/captivity excursions, while somewhat delightful on a prurient basis, go on for what seems like hundreds of pages and add very little to the overall story and mythos. What, we didn't know Perrin would worry about her immensely? Do we need yet more insight into the Aiel/Shaido lifestyles (the answer to that is "no")?

I would say Winter's Heart has perhaps 100 pages of what feels like "necessary" material.  Which is certainly better than Crossroads of Twilight, which has maybe 40-50 pages ... Knife of Dreams is little better.

Other than the conclusions of the four novels in the Path of Daggers to Knife of Dreams section of the Wheel of Time, I'd be hard-pressed to tell you that anything other than "wheel-spinning" is occurring.  Despite their lengths, these books have precious little characterization advances.  They add a ton of lore and proliferate the various One Power widgets that the characters use, but we mostly get unending new characters and storylines that go nowhere.

All I can say is that Gathering Storm immediately restored my interest in the series.  It deftly wrapped up a TON of the worst plot arcs and had some of the best characterization moments. including my single favorite Rand sequence of incredible power and surprising depth.

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Completely agreed with Books 8-11 doing very little to advance things, beyond a few resurrections and the very end of Book 11 (which is executed in a shockingly clunky, anticlimactic way: despite being one of the biggest events of the entire series, Jordan's writing of it is in almost every way the opposite of how he handled Dumai's Wells).

And Overlord, you've sold me on reading the final three books (as in actually reading them). Once I finish EMPIRE OF GRASS, i'll dig into Books 12-14.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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(03-16-2020, 05:28 PM)MichaelM Wrote: And Overlord, you've sold me on reading the final three books (as in actually reading them). Once I finish EMPIRE OF GRASS, i'll dig into Books 12-14.

*Tugs braid in approval*

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The Sea Folk better do some epic level shit when the End begins...

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No, no, noooooo! Not the menagerie! Please, anything but Luca's menagerie!!

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