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The Democratic Party Going Forward
Well, pushing the left button last time didn't work. Let's try it again. Something something insanity.
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To be fair, neither button worked after 2016.
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(03-15-2020, 09:38 AM)scottieferguson Wrote: Well, pushing the left button last time didn't work.  Let's try it again.  Something something insanity.

Too many people stayed home or voted 'other' rather than vote Hillary under the assumption that she was going to win.  Add in Russian interference and boom.  We can't do anything about Russian interference (lord knows we've tried) but hopefully people will not 'assume' that Biden is going to win this time and actually vote for him.
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(03-15-2020, 09:38 AM)scottieferguson Wrote: Well, pushing the left button last time didn't work.  Let's try it again.  Something something insanity.

If we are talking insanity, it takes a particularly wild logic to say “Biden may have trounced Bernie in every state that matters for the general, among the more left-leaning primary population, while spending less money, but surely Bernie would have seen a huge surge in support in November once all the republicans and independents get the chance they’ve been waiting for to vote for a socialist.”

Biden was far from my favorite option, but to deny that he has proven out as the strongest candidate at this point, you basically have to just be making shit up.
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Plus, Biden is now taking policy advice from Warren. If you're an actual Progressive and not just a Bernie cultist, things are looking pretty good today.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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I still don't think Biden is the right choice, or what I want.  Frankly because a "return to normalcy" ideally, just gets us back to where we were before Trump.

However, I can't deny that it's nice to have a grown-up in the room.  So yeah, Biden gets the nomination--I"ll vote for him.
"Why did she do it?"
"Why are you the fucking Police?"

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(03-15-2020, 12:34 PM)ska oreo Wrote: I still don't think Biden is the right choice, or what I want.  Frankly because a "return to normalcy" ideally, just gets us back to where we were before Trump.

However, I can't deny that it's nice to have a grown-up in the room.  So yeah, Biden gets the nomination--I"ll vote for him.

Like I said, not my preferred nominee, but he will be perfectly fine for the purposes of unrolling Trump’s worst policies and rebuilding the intelligence, justice, and foreign service communities that will constitute an unfortunately large portion of the next term anyway. And while I wouldn’t have thought it based on early performances, he now seems to be the best bet for sweeping the down ballot races that the Dems desperately need to do any more than all that rolling back and rebuilding done.
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(03-15-2020, 12:34 PM)ska oreo Wrote: I still don't think Biden is the right choice, or what I want.  Frankly because a "return to normalcy" ideally, just gets us back to where we were before Trump.

However, I can't deny that it's nice to have a grown-up in the room.  So yeah, Biden gets the nomination--I"ll vote for him.

Getting back to where we were under Obama is pretty much where we have to go at this point. And that’s not a bad thing. Biden or Sanders are going to have a lot of work to do just to fix all the damage Trump did.
"Every romantic comedy should just be called "Tryin' to Fuck" - Patton Oswalt
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Biden is also ready to adopt part of Bernie's free college plan. But I am sure nothing will change if he's elected of course.


https://www.thedailybeast.com/joe-biden-...n?ref=home
"You want a vision of the future?Imagine a boot stomping on a human face.....forever."
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(03-15-2020, 01:46 PM)Paul755 Wrote: Getting back to where we were under Obama is pretty much where we have to go at this point. And that’s not a bad thing. Biden or Sanders are going to have a lot of work to do just to fix all the damage Trump did.
If the next president accomplishes nothing other than getting us back to where we were at the start of 2016, he'll be a certified god-damned hero.
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I have a feeling that M4A will be closer to a real thing after this pandemic.
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If Biden begins appropriating his primary opponents' progressive positions, it's at least a start. It's definitely better than when he was plagiarizing speeches back in the day.
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I dunno if Bernie did anything that would change people’s minds.

The Veep and black woman on the Supreme Court are the only unexpected things I saw.
"Every romantic comedy should just be called "Tryin' to Fuck" - Patton Oswalt
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Biden committed to a female VP.

Which means he's already spoken to either Harris or Warren.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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I think Klobuchar would be a dark horse in the race for Veep. And Stacey Abrams has to be in the mix as well.

It would be the stunner of stunners if he somehow talked Warren into accepting the job.

Smart money has to be on Harris though.
"Every romantic comedy should just be called "Tryin' to Fuck" - Patton Oswalt
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Biden also promised that he'd put a black woman on the Supreme Court, which seems oddly specific, no?

(Psychic mode ON)

That sounds like he's promised RBG's seat to Harris? Is there another black woman with a background in law enforcement that is prominent enough for Biden to already be committed to?

If correct, that makes Warren seem like the most likely VP.

Those are both my logical predictions, and madly optimistic hopes.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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Warren or Harris as VP but Senate Majority leader Warren has a really nice ring to it.
I used to be with "it", but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't "it", and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.   -Grandpa Simpson
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I don’t think the SCOTUS nominee needs to be someone politically visible. I’m sure there are plenty of qualified judges that fit what he’s said that we’ve never heard of.
"Every romantic comedy should just be called "Tryin' to Fuck" - Patton Oswalt
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(03-15-2020, 11:37 PM)Paul755 Wrote: I don’t think the SCOTUS nominee needs to be someone politically visible. I’m sure there are plenty of qualified judges that fit what he’s said that we’ve never heard of.

Oh sure... but it also has to be someone Biden knows well enough to have in mind specifically, not just on his list, but to be THE list. He has to like them, have already offered it to them and know they'll say yes, otherwise his promise could easily turn into a lie.

And Harris just endorsed him.

Two other bits from Biden tonight:

He says he would freeze deportations upon taking office and eventually would only deport felons.

Also, he would ban fracking on federal lands.

So, at this point, Biden's promised policies put him to the left of Obama... and pretty far to the left of where his critics (including me) would've expected him to stake out his positions.
Gamertag: Tweakee
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https://mobile.twitter.com/mattyglesias/...0559543298

   
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The Ohio presidential primaries have been postponed until June due to COVID-19.

We have at least three more months of Bernie and Biden vying for the big ticket.
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

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I'm very conflicted mainly because as a person, I prefer Bernie, but as things have unfolded, it seems increasingly unlikely he can win (especially after the primaries held today)...but a lot can happen in those extra months that makes it every-so-slightly less impossible.

By the same token, the responsible thing to do would probably be to drop out and go full-bore on Coronavirus response in the Senate and working to defeat Trump in November. It'd be a good way to earn some goodwill from the party, too.

But given past precedent...he's probably in it to the end.
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(03-17-2020, 11:59 AM)jmacq1 Wrote: I'm very conflicted mainly because as a person, I prefer Bernie, but as things have unfolded, it seems increasingly unlikely he can win (especially after the primaries held today)...but a lot can happen in those extra months that makes it every-so-slightly less impossible.


Yeah. The debate Sunday night was interesting. I think Bernie is full on correct about the ultimate problem being the system itself: a wealth-driven and -protecting system that exists only to increase its own power and reduce the power of others. Money and attendant elements have thoroughly infected and perverted policy and law. And, ultimately, I would be in favor of some revolutionary changes to dismantle that system and replace it with something more equitable and more resistant to corruption. And, overall, I'm more in alignment with Bernie's policy positions than Biden's.

However. As Richard Dickson has put it: the medical analogy is that we're now at the triage stage. Our system of government as we know it is on the table, and is in real danger of passing away. The first priority is saving and stabilizing, not replacing ordinary limbs with bionic ones. Going full revolution at this moment could actually prove fatal rather than lifesaving. The patient needs to be kept alive and brought to a healthy state.

And right now, all indications are that Biden is the one who is most likely to get that done by dint of being more popular with Democratic primary voters. Which means he is more likely to defeat Lord Dampnut in November. Which means supporting him.

Another note from Sunday's debate: I found Sanders' repeated attempts to use statements or votes from 20+ years ago to be dumb and unproductive. I've always said I'd prefer a candidate who demonstrates growth, willingness to change, and a progressive trajectory. I trust that more than I trust someone who's "never" changed or changed very little. (Of course then we're left with the challenge of discerning actual growth versus pandering, but that's a distinct [though important] discussion.)
"Nooj's true feelings on any given subject are unknown and unknowable. He is the butterfly flapping its wings in Peking. He is chaos and destruction and you shall never see his true form." - Merriweather

My Steam ID: yizashigreyspear
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(03-17-2020, 11:59 AM)jmacq1 Wrote: I'm very conflicted mainly because as a person, I prefer Bernie, but as things have unfolded, it seems increasingly unlikely he can win (especially after the primaries held today)...but a lot can happen in those extra months that makes it every-so-slightly less impossible.

By the same token, the responsible thing to do would probably be to drop out and go full-bore on Coronavirus response in the Senate and working to defeat Trump in November.  It'd be a good way to earn some goodwill from the party, too.

But given past precedent...he's probably in it to the end.

The virus, and the catastrophic mismanagement of the response, represents an unprecedented opportunity to make a real push for national healthcare in Congress.  If he could forsake his claim on the iron throne, and especially if he can do anything to help tip the upcoming Senate races in the Dems favor, then his signature policy proposal stands a very good chance of making it through even with Biden as POTUS.
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(03-17-2020, 12:30 PM)schwartz Wrote:
(03-17-2020, 11:59 AM)jmacq1 Wrote: I'm very conflicted mainly because as a person, I prefer Bernie, but as things have unfolded, it seems increasingly unlikely he can win (especially after the primaries held today)...but a lot can happen in those extra months that makes it every-so-slightly less impossible.

By the same token, the responsible thing to do would probably be to drop out and go full-bore on Coronavirus response in the Senate and working to defeat Trump in November.  It'd be a good way to earn some goodwill from the party, too.

But given past precedent...he's probably in it to the end.

The virus, and the catastrophic mismanagement of the response, represents an unprecedented opportunity to make a real push for national healthcare in Congress.  If he could forsake his claim on the iron throne, and especially if he can do anything to help tip the upcoming Senate races in the Dems favor, then his signature policy proposal stands a very good chance of making it through even with Biden as POTUS.

Agreed.  this whole situation seems to have created an appetite for national healthcare.  If Bernie is more interested in achieving his goals vs becoming president, he could probably get a lot of things done through Biden.
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I do feel for Bernie and his brohort, though. It must be intensely frustrating to see the crisis that proves so much of your case in such direct, irrefutable fashion come around like, one week too late for the campaign to rebound along with it.

Hopefully, wherever Amos is, he can gain some measure of satisfaction that the "sledgehammer to the Overton Window" he talked about so much has actually come about. With enough force that you are seeing loud questions being posed about why we don't have mandated PTO, private insurers can't cover all the costs of treating a pandemic, and freaking Tom Cotton is out here repping UBI. All of that would have been unthinkable a month ago.

But apparently Bernie's wishlist could only be accomplished through some bizarre Monkey's Paw scenario where first his campaign has to faceplant in embarrassing fashion and he has to kiss Joe Biden's ring.
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Amos doesn't care about issues, progress, or the Overton Window. Amos cares about smug self-satisfaction and personal vindication over his own petty grudges and private prejudices. The reasons you lay out make me feel bad for a lot of perfectly decent hardcore progressives around here who're stuck sitting in the bus that looks to have broken down for good - folks like Reasor, Anakin's Dad, Michael Shaver, etc. - but the aggressive douchebag contingent? I got no sympathy for them at all.
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"Brohort."

Love it.
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I'm pretty fucking tired of the derogatory terms being thrown around this thread.
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Welcome to the Internet. First time?
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Voted just while ago in the Illinois Democratic primary -- my local polling-station had evidently been seeing some fairly brisk participation today, despite the virus. Took a pic of my ballot moments before I scanned it into the machine -- voted for both Joe Biden, as well as three Biden-delegates to the National Nominating Convention:

[Image: PYoPhUM.jpg]
"These guys are pros, Michael. They're gonna push the tension 'till the last possible moment before they strip."

 
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Despite the Pandemic, Tulsi Gabbard will end up getting more votes than she should.
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Michael Bennet??
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(03-17-2020, 05:22 PM)history buff Wrote: Despite the Pandemic, Tulsi Gabbard will end up getting more votes than she should.

So you're saying she'll get a vote?
Gamertag: Tweakee
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^Maybe even two votes.

Holy shit, Biden is absolutely CRUSHING Bernie in Florida right now — 62% to 16%, with 93% of precincts reporting in, according to Kornacki. Unfortunately, you just know Bernie’s gonna use the Ohio voting-shutdown as an unexpected, handy excuse to keep his campaign going for months to come.
"These guys are pros, Michael. They're gonna push the tension 'till the last possible moment before they strip."

 
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